82 replies to this topic

[FSxHunter]

Great guide thanks for posting!

[knight-of-ni]

I spent the day yesterday recording my repair & rearm costs.
If you are interested, you can view the results here:
http://mwomercs.com/...odified-jenner/

The idea is to provide some data for those interested in knowing what their repairs costs will be prior to purchasing an XL engine and other upgrades for their Jenner.

[Hayashi]

Thanks knnniggett. I'm sure that data will be useful for people who are considering running a similar build to yours.

Also, I've patched my guide to the second edition to the second edition as promised. Thanks for all the good feedback so far.

[Holt]

Your short jump 180 tip made me significantly more lethal and less likely to be concentrated on by other light mechs thanks for this tip. Also the ams ammo in the leg thing was helpful .5 tons is a lot of armor on a Jenner with FF

I find a max upgrade F variant running 300XL 2xML and 4xSL with 3 JJ and 234 armor is an excellent Jenner build though when beagle and ecm start working i still haven't decided what to ditch. I'm thinking of going back to 210 armor but stripping more from my arms than legs as i did before. Damn arms are so small never seem to get popped haven't seen them go past orange on my Jenner since the reset.

I disagree with your assertion that 1 JJ is plenty as there are a number of areas that i can reach and a number of maneuvers that are far more difficult and less reliable such as running straight off the drops in city onto the roof of a building at the same or similar height to disappear on the other side and loosing my pursuers pretty much every time. I had a 7 JJ build that i used to brain **** a cupple pug assaults when we were the only ones left on forest. I so wish i had a fraps of that 5 mins of gotta go fast and aerial trickery assisted by hills.

[Hayashi]

I've some new information. Artemis reduces lock on time for all missiles, as they all use the same locking mechanic.

This includes Streaks.

But Streaks do not increase in tonnage, cost or critical slots when an Artemis upgrade is purchased.

Therefore:

If you wish to use a Streak build such as a 2 SSRM2 4 MLAS build on the JR7-D(/DF), you SHOULD purchase the Artemis upgrade. It's a flat out upgrade, the only drawback is the upgrade C Bill cost.

I'll include this information in the third revision of the guide. A third revision may be necessary anyway after the 20 November patch.

[Sholes]

Thank you. My play has already gotten better. This is pure gold.

[D0m1n4t0r]

Tuhalu, on 16 November 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Pretty sure you actually can get higher than 140kph with speed tweak. It's probably not worth doing, but it's possible.



Speaking of myths, the heat penalty for firing more than one weapon at a time is a myth. There has been no official change that applies extra heat to "boated" weapons. There has been no thorough and correct player research done with regards to heat costs and dissipation rates that has shown this occuring.

On a mech firing 4 medium lasers at once, a player might observe their heat scaling rising by 26%, whereas on a mech firing only 1 medium laser, the player might observe a 5% increase. Many players incorrectly assume that the game charges you extra heat for firing all those weapons at once (5%x4 = 20, why is there 6% more heat?). Actually, in the 1 second it took for the heat scale to adjust, 2% of the heat created was dissipated. So the medium laser really costs 7% per firing (7% for 1, 28% for 4) and 2% of that goes away in the time it takes the heat scale to adjust (7%-2% = 5% and 28%-2% = 26%).

Another source of observational error is in the case of chain firing more than 4 medium lasers. You chain fire them and it costs less heat over time than firing them in alpha strikes! Surely this proves the heat penalty (they think). In fact, if you are chain firing medium lasers, only 4 of them will fire in a 4 second period because each laser waits until the last one has finished beaming (1 second duration) before firing. Firing in alpha strikes, you get 5 or more lasers firing every 4 seconds. So you wind up comparing the heat for firing 4 medium lasers on cooldown with the heat for firing 5 or more medium lasers on cooldown. Woops.

I have tested and found out it isnt a myth. at least in the patch when the awesome 9m came out i ran with 3 erppcs, and when i alpha striked i got 60 something % and when i chain fired them all (thats what i mean) firing htem 1 right after the other firing them as fast as possible, i was about 5% less

[M T]

Very nice, but the 140kph cap is a myth.

I just confirmed it Jenner vs Jenner with a friend, Highest XL vs XL 280, Max XL jenner was consistently going faster a few meters a second.

[Hayashi]

Marctraider, on 20 November 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Very nice, but the 140kph cap is a myth. I just confirmed it Jenner vs Jenner with a friend, Highest XL vs XL 280, Max XL jenner was consistently going faster a few meters a second.

Both were Speed Tweaked? This is interesting.

[Tuhalu]

D0m1n4t0r, on 20 November 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

I have tested and found out it isnt a myth. at least in the patch when the awesome 9m came out i ran with 3 erppcs, and when i alpha striked i got 60 something % and when i chain fired them all (thats what i mean) firing htem 1 right after the other firing them as fast as possible, i was about 5% less

That sounds like a 3rd observational error.

When you fire 3 ER PPCs all at once, it takes about 2 seconds for it to reach max heat. When you fire 3 ER PPCs one after the other with chain fire, it takes some additional time to reach max heat. Because of the additional time, additional heat is removed from the mech by the heat sinks.

The following chart shows how this works graphically. Note that while I'm assuming a certain timeline, the relationship stands regardless of how long it takes the game to receive the full heat (I assumed 2 seconds) and how long between shots (I assumed 1 second).


The correct way to test for a difference would be to note your minimum heat% while standing still for the map you are testing on, fire your weapons and then measure the time until you returned to that minimum heat%. Repeat the test several times to account for observational error. Repeat for both volley fire and chain fire.

I performed this exact test on a Cicada with 4 MPL and 17 double heat sinks. Fired 5 times in volley mode and in chain fire mode on River City. Min heat% was 0. Returned to 0 heat at T+35 seconds within 0.5 seconds. This is within a 3% margin of error.

Edited by Tuhalu, 21 November 2012 - 12:43 AM.

[Sandra McCrow]

I do play both -d and -f jenners, and though -d one is much better against lights i prefer my 5ml -f.
Also I do not really understand how to fit xl300 on -d. Unless you sacrifice armour of course - and that i prefer not to do because I spend matches constantly circling around main fight spots usually taking quite a bit of damage.
BTW speaking of fits can anybody give a fit of 6ml jr-f? In my understanding that it's an extremely hit-n-run toy, since alpha burns hlvls to 30-40%. I run 5ml with decent 25 unit alpha and even though she is beautiful - I still have to watch hlvls and switch from alpha to chain all the time. But at least I can put out several alphas when need to head-kill overheated heavy in front of me.

[Hayashi]

Sandro Mc, on 21 November 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

I do play both -d and -f jenners, and though -d one is much better against lights i prefer my 5ml -f. Also I do not really understand how to fit xl300 on -d. Unless you sacrifice armour of course - and that i prefer not to do because I spend matches constantly circling around main fight spots usually taking quite a bit of damage. BTW speaking of fits can anybody give a fit of 6ml jr-f? In my understanding that it's an extremely hit-n-run toy, since alpha burns hlvls to 30-40%. I run 5ml with decent 25 unit alpha and even though she is beautiful - I still have to watch hlvls and switch from alpha to chain all the time. But at least I can put out several alphas when need to head-kill overheated heavy in front of me.

Nearly maxed armour. Use FF, Endo Steel and DHS upgrades all combined. The 4 medium lasers/2 streaks/2tons streak ammo/AMS/1 ton AMS ammo take some slots. Dump DHS into all remaining slots. Use only one jump jet.

I can't get the 6 ML F to work well, a 5 ML + moar heat sink configuration nets me more damage over time, especially on Caustic Valley.

[Sandra McCrow]

Hayashi, on 21 November 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

Nearly maxed armour. Use FF, Endo Steel and DHS upgrades all combined. The 4 medium lasers/2 streaks/2tons streak ammo/AMS/1 ton AMS ammo take some slots. Dump DHS into all remaining slots. Use only one jump jet. I can't get the 6 ML F to work well, a 5 ML + moar heat sink configuration nets me more damage over time, especially on Caustic Valley.

I got both -d and -f master perks and i do run them fully upgraded. And I am pretty satisfied with xl 280 on jenner-d. With regards to -f - she works beautify with 5mls, but I just can't make it to do so with 6th... I was curious if I am missing something.
Caustic valley is a good one - a lot of space fro circle fights and always some place to hide in couple of seconds if your fight area become to saturated with random fire. Also you really can fight tightly close to your team without being constantly friendlyfired. This is something I hate on other maps. Usually it's not only you who spots weak and retreating target - it's the whole team and as a result instead of switching fire to more comfortable and easy to hit target they all start to run after duying atlas or hunchie or pult saturating your area of manoeuvre with friendly fire and wasting time on something that is going to die anyway.

Edited by Sandro Mc, 21 November 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[M T]

Hayashi, on 20 November 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Both were Speed Tweaked? This is interesting.

Sorry, forgot to mention that, but ofcourse, yes.

So yeah, the only thing that i can think of that it has either not been properly tested and its simply a myth, but i can also accept another expanation in which some dynamics in the game could possibly affect it? My tests with my friend were concluded in the Caustic valley map. Perhaps it only happens in a few maps? Or some other aspects affect it.

Too bad, I would've liked that extra few tonnage

[Sandra McCrow]

BTW and is there a cap for torso twist? As far as I remember the mechanics larger engine provides faster twist... Although it's kinda hard to test...

[Lanessar]

Sandro Mc, on 21 November 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

BTW and is there a cap for torso twist? As far as I remember the mechanics larger engine provides faster twist... Although it's kinda hard to test...

Talents don't currently affect twist max, currently broken - just throwing that out there.

The one thing that consistently confuses me is all this heat shutdown nonsense. Running with 4 ML and 2xSSRM2, I've only gone up to 75% heat using an XL300 engine (12 DHS). I do heat manage, but I never miss a juicy shot where I can take it.

My next chassis to master is the F, so I'll be tossing the 6xSL in there. Still looking at a 12 heat alpha vs. 24 heat dissipation, so I'm not really too worried about overheating. Maybe if I switch to 6xML, but...

[Sandra McCrow]

Lanessar, on 21 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

Talents don't currently affect twist max, currently broken - just throwing that out there.

The one thing that consistently confuses me is all this heat shutdown nonsense. Running with 4 ML and 2xSSRM2, I've only gone up to 75% heat using an XL300 engine (12 DHS). I do heat manage, but I never miss a juicy shot where I can take it.

My next chassis to master is the F, so I'll be tossing the 6xSL in there. Still looking at a 12 heat alpha vs. 24 heat dissipation, so I'm not really too worried about overheating. Maybe if I switch to 6xML, but...

6mls - read as problems with tonnage unless you are running a lower xl engine with hell if i know what heat efficiency. It depends on your player style and overall aggression, but in matches where you really roll - you fire almost non-stop after scout phase... and you do up to 1000 damage but heat is an issue there.

Edited by Sandro Mc, 21 November 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[chaz706]

I'm inspired to write a post on Hunchbacks based on what you've written here. Your insights on Jenner piloting are astounding and have helped me become a better pilot for this oft hated mech.

On a side note: it sucks when I'm piloting my atlas and find myself alone with a Jenner. I suppose I have you to thank for that?

[Hayashi]

chaz706, on 21 November 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I'm inspired to write a post on Hunchbacks based on what you've written here. Your insights on Jenner piloting are astounding and have helped me become a better pilot for this oft hated mech. On a side note: it sucks when I'm piloting my atlas and find myself alone with a Jenner. I suppose I have you to thank for that?

That would be good. I don't have the time to write a full guide like this on every chassis, and I'm not going to venture writing a guide without at least Mastering all the variants in that chassis. So other than this, the only other variant I'm 'qualified' to write for at the moment is the Catapult. Still, advocating uAC/5, Gauss and 6xSSRM2 cheese builds isn't exactly something I want to do with my free time, and a Catapult guide would end up looking something like that.

And while it would be flattering to think that every good Jenner pilot out there is good because they read this, I don't think that's a realistic assumption. Also, if you find yourself alone with a Jenner, that pilot is not applying this guide - because doing that would hurt the pilot's team (every fight you do 1v1 is a stacked-odds fight that you're not helping with, so your allies are taking more damage than they should). Now if you find yourself under fire by a Catapult and suddenly you notice your rear armour disappearing followed by a critical hit to the back - that would be more likely someone who's trying to apply this.

Of course, actually piloting it is rather different from just reading about it as well, and different players will have different strengths. Many pilots can probably aim better than me, and have better ping, and will probably win me in a straight 1v1 Jenner fight, but where tactical decisions are concerned most probably won't do as well - so that 1v1 Jenner fight is unlikely to ever happen unless we're the only two pilots left on the map.

Edited by Hayashi, 21 November 2012 - 08:45 PM.

[nksharp]

I hate facing off against 300 ping jenners, they are the worst. I tend to use srms over ssrms because I have sub 30 ping all the time which I find makes them easy to use but I see most people with higher pings use ssrms to compensate, I may give them a try tonight to see if I like it.

Had 40 k/d in my jenner until recently when my game force closed twice in a night and I stopped playing cautiously. Jenners can be a force to be reckoned with and I think most new players underestimate the small mech which can be beneficial once you get to their rear. I can't even count how many players I have got lately without them even turning around.

Even an atlas will fall flat with concentrated fire to the rear