82 replies to this topic

[Sandra McCrow]

nksharp, on 22 November 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

I hate facing off against 300 ping jenners, they are the worst. I tend to use srms over ssrms because I have sub 30 ping all the time which I find makes them easy to use but I see most people with higher pings use ssrms to compensate, I may give them a try tonight to see if I like it.

Had 40 k/d in my jenner until recently when my game force closed twice in a night and I stopped playing cautiously. Jenners can be a force to be reckoned with and I think most new players underestimate the small mech which can be beneficial once you get to their rear. I can't even count how many players I have got lately without them even turning around.

Even an atlas will fall flat with concentrated fire to the rear

40 k/d ration on jenner... aWHAT??? Yes, I've played less than 400 fights, and the beginning of a jenner was a hard one for me - i spent a lot of time trying to learn to pilot it. I recently started to push my kd ratio beyond 1... and even though I am far from being perfect I thought that there is not many jenner pilots out there with really high... but 40 k/d for jenner - gosh this is unbelivable... if you don't mind me asking what a kd ratio for jenner should look like?

Now speaking of tactics...

Hayashi, on 21 November 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

And while it would be flattering to think that every good Jenner pilot out there is good because they read this, I don't think that's a realistic assumption. Also, if you find yourself alone with a Jenner, that pilot is not applying this guide - because doing that would hurt the pilot's team (every fight you do 1v1 is a stacked-odds fight that you're not helping with, so your allies are taking more damage than they should). Now if you find yourself under fire by a Catapult and suddenly you notice your rear armour disappearing followed by a critical hit to the back - that would be more likely someone who's trying to apply this.

Well, I do tend to be bolder and that may actually lowering my efficiency as a jenner pilot. I started to do much more team work now after reading this guide... well I started to do it more consciously. But I do often find myself facing atlases/pults/awesomes etc 1 v 1. And I am not talking about fighting them 1 v 1 when score is someting-7 and my team is dead. I thought that it is more or less in line with the guide that in what-ever stage of the fight if I can harass a lonely assault well behind the enemy line that is speeding towards the brawl or sniping/lmring -I should do it. Or when I can place a series of volleys in the back of an atlas that is 150m away from the brawl but hitting heavily my team - I go after it as well. Especially if we are talking about already damaged atlas that is likely to die before he'd manage to react on me murdering his gut from behind. In first couple of cases - I am lifting the assault-shaped pressure from my team and I can easily do it for quite a while. In last case - it's not taking long and it leaves one assault less for the enemy, that otherwise would be still a huge threat to my team.

Oh and the last question - yesterday I came home really tired and played 4-5 matches - and somehow in 4 of 5 of them i died VERY fast - every time by being ct-cored. My friend yesterday notice the same with his jenner. Anybody noticed any bugs with jenner hitboxes?

[PapaKilo]

Mine was dying extra-quickly as well. But it wasn't just Jenners -- I noticed that my targets (of any size) were dying more quickly than normal too.

Edited by PapaKilo, 22 November 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Schrottfrosch]

With current state of SSRMs I would be very cautious with a Jenner.

You can field them yourselves, but beware the Streakapult!

[Sandra McCrow]

Schrottfrosch, on 22 November 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

With current state of SSRMs I would be very cautious with a Jenner.

You can field them yourselves, but beware the Streakapult!

Actually there a lot of Streak boats now and that may be the reason. I investigated a bit into the issue - and it appears that mostly it's normal fighting situations that you enter after eating to much missiles.
Well... it makes it a challenge I guess

[Hayashi]

Sandro Mc, on 22 November 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

40 k/d ration on jenner... aWHAT??? Yes, I've played less than 400 fights, and the beginning of a jenner was a hard one for me - i spent a lot of time trying to learn to pilot it. I recently started to push my kd ratio beyond 1... and even though I am far from being perfect I thought that there is not many jenner pilots out there with really high... but 40 k/d for jenner - gosh this is unbelivable... if you don't mind me asking what a kd ratio for jenner should look like? Now speaking of tactics... Well, I do tend to be bolder and that may actually lowering my efficiency as a jenner pilot. I started to do much more team work now after reading this guide... well I started to do it more consciously. But I do often find myself facing atlases/pults/awesomes etc 1 v 1. And I am not talking about fighting them 1 v 1 when score is someting-7 and my team is dead. I thought that it is more or less in line with the guide that in what-ever stage of the fight if I can harass a lonely assault well behind the enemy line that is speeding towards the brawl or sniping/lmring -I should do it. Or when I can place a series of volleys in the back of an atlas that is 150m away from the brawl but hitting heavily my team - I go after it as well. Especially if we are talking about already damaged atlas that is likely to die before he'd manage to react on me murdering his gut from behind. In first couple of cases - I am lifting the assault-shaped pressure from my team and I can easily do it for quite a while. In last case - it's not taking long and it leaves one assault less for the enemy, that otherwise would be still a huge threat to my team. Oh and the last question - yesterday I came home really tired and played 4-5 matches - and somehow in 4 of 5 of them i died VERY fast - every time by being ct-cored. My friend yesterday notice the same with his jenner. Anybody noticed any bugs with jenner hitboxes?

Harassing snipers/LRMers is definitely good practice, but one shouldn't get involved in a circle-strafe competition with a Hunchback, etc. Also, if the LRMer is a Catapult, they have some insane torso twist ranges, so backstabbing, running away and repeating usually has better results than attempting to repeatedly shoot its back after it has detected you. They twist so much you'd end up shooting the front, and while you're trying to kill that one Mech, others close to you may be having a harder time. Same for Streakapults - usually I shoot them in the back until they turn, then run past them at full speed - by the time they turn their torso back around and get a streak lock, I'm beyond 250 metres, and any missiles they fire will reach me past the 270m mark. Extended battles with Streakapults is one way to die quickly, but hit and run works on pretty much anything.

My KDR in a Jenner is about 4. Overall KDR has dropped quite a bit since I started piloting Dragons though. But it's not implausible that a good Jenner pilot in a good premade can get >10 KDR. Some people really are that good.

PapaKilo, on 22 November 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Mine was dying extra-quickly as well. But it wasn't just Jenners -- I noticed that my targets (of any size) were dying more quickly than normal too.

Noticed the same. Some people are speculating the effectiveness of armour was reduced across the board or something, but I haven't seen anything official.

[Gulinborsti]

Excellent guide, I played almost 80-90% of my games so far with all Jenner variants and I agree to almost all of your summary.
However, I recommend using a XL 280 engine over the XL 300 once you unlocked the Speed Tweak. While the extra speed of the XL 300 might increase your survivability in the beginning, I found it a lot harder to hit other fast targets in close ranged fights. With your piloting skill and battle field awareness increasing over time, the extra top end speed will no longer be required.

Just my 2 cents ...

Edited by Gulinborsti, 23 November 2012 - 02:30 AM.

[Sandra McCrow]

Hayashi, on 22 November 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

Harassing snipers/LRMers is definitely good practice, but one shouldn't get involved in a circle-strafe competition with a Hunchback, etc. Also, if the LRMer is a Catapult, they have some insane torso twist ranges, so backstabbing, running away and repeating usually has better results than attempting to repeatedly shoot its back after it has detected you. They twist so much you'd end up shooting the front, and while you're trying to kill that one Mech, others close to you may be having a harder time. Same for Streakapults - usually I shoot them in the back until they turn, then run past them at full speed - by the time they turn their torso back around and get a streak lock, I'm beyond 250 metres, and any missiles they fire will reach me past the 270m mark. Extended battles with Streakapults is one way to die quickly, but hit and run works on pretty much anything.

My KDR in a Jenner is about 4. Overall KDR has dropped quite a bit since I started piloting Dragons though. But it's not implausible that a good Jenner pilot in a good premade can get >10 KDR. Some people really are that good.


Noticed the same. Some people are speculating the effectiveness of armour was reduced across the board or something, but I haven't seen anything official.

Oh well, I made my kd from starting 0,26 to 1.25 very quickly and I looked kinda it shouldn't be much a problem to get it to 3-4 even in PUG. Premade is different for sure. But that thing with die-quickly-die-hard 's struck and now it's a wee bit more of a challenge.
Streakpults as I say - a big no-no unless you can finish badly damaged one in couple volleys. If you can double leg it in 3 shots doing a curve around it - it's worth a try. Other than that - I agree, I started to do less 1 v 1 brawls at least in the beginning. But somehow I still have to do it a lot.
A way of Jenner is a hard way... but it's fun!

[knight-of-ni]

Anyone else notice that the mech bay now has a 360 deg. view module for purchase?
That will be the first module I buy.

I wonder if it is available for all mechs.

EDIT:
On another note, read the second post in this thread:
http://mwomercs.com/...apon-balancing/

I think this explains why it has recently become more difficult to survive in a light mech.

Edited by knnniggett, 23 November 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[PapaKilo]

That module allows you to keep track of your current target if it goes behind you and stays within 200 meters or so. It doesn't give you 360º sensors.

[knight-of-ni]

Oh, got it. Still seems pretty useful.
How did you know that? Is that documented somewhere?

[TheAuDoctor]

I take a screenshot of every game's match summary. Here are the stats for my last 40 games with an optimized Jenner (4SL, 2SSRM, AMS). Loses weren't concealed, but I didn't take screenshots for about 5 games because FRAPS wasn't running.

Total Games: 40
Victories: 16
Loses: 24
Kills: 34
Deaths: 14
Assists: 100
K/D: 2.43
A/D: 7.14
A/K: 2.94

I think these stats are somewhat accurate, but a few games with a DRG-5N may be in there. When you die in a match there is no way to tell what mech you were in, and unfortunately I die most of the time in my dragon.

Edited by TheAuDoctor, 23 November 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[PapaKilo]

knnniggett, on 23 November 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

How did you know that? Is that documented somewhere?

Yep. Here -- second item under the GENERAL heading.

[Sholes]

Wanted to bump this now that improved netcode is making light hunting a reality

[Hayashi]

I'm personally lagged too much (280ms) too much to hunt lights (especially Craven-3L) yet though, but so far it's been fun killing everything Medium+. The tactics here apply in their entirety to almost every other light of the same speed.

[Ferodaktyl]

very good guide, i learned a few things from it.
Now, with the last update, does ARTEMIS still improve lock time for SSRM? it doesn't show like it does for SRM+ARTEMIS and LRM+ARTEMIS
and what is the difference in speed from XL300 to XL280? i could use those 1.5 tons for some more SRM ammo and armor
My build is XL300 / 12 DHS / 4JJ / 4SL / 2SSRM / AMS /Fero-Endo-Double HS - Artemis, 214 armor. Is there any way i can improve this build? Is the engine downgrade actually an improvement? Should i replace SLs with SPLs or MLs on the account of lowering another 0.5 ton of armor and downgrading the engine?
I just started to unlock the Elite perks, and i guess Speed Tweak is the first to go for, followed by Fast Fire or Pinpoint, though i am not sure what weapons convergence does for Jenner, the lasers seem to converge just fine now , and with 1.55 heat eff. i don't overheat so easily, so Quick Ignition will be last (or maybe third).
When i started playing, i went directly for Jenner, not knowing it is actually quite a difficult mech to play, and i took (still take) quite some beatings, but lately i see an improvement in my gamestyle, thanks to some youtube vids and forum tips. I just stumbled on this guide, learned  a few more tips (particularly that JJ short burst turns looks quite effective - i used to do long JJ bursts while turning in mid-air, and making me more vulnerable to fire) and i can hardly wait to put them into practice.
Anyway, i find Jenner more and more likable as i play it and upgrade it, and if i learn to disengage and to remember where exactly i am on the map and figure out where the others are, i even may get to be a decent player.
I also learned quite a lot from Krivvan's youtube series on Jenner, and i think this guide can only benefit from some Jenner's good gameplays, and if you know of others, please recommend them. There is a lot to be learned from seeing others play, combined with reading the guides and tips from the forum. Maybe you can link them in the first post, to make the guide more complete.

Edited by Ferodaktyl, 03 March 2013 - 02:30 AM.

[knight-of-ni]

Welcome to the game, Ferodaktyl. I hope you enjoy it. The Jenner is still my favorite mech.

I used to run my JR7-D with an XL280, SSRM's, and AMS. However as the game and my piloting evolved, I migrated to an XL300, four ML's, two SRM4's, and no AMS. In my opinion, you should always run a Jenner with max armor. Recommend you drop the AMS and Artemis. Your speed is a better AMS than AMS. According to what I've read, Artemis doesn't do anything for streaks, but even if it did the added weight is not worth it on a Jenner.

In time as you gain GXP and cbills, the Advanced Sensor module is helpful and if you stay with SSRM's then pick up the Target Decay module.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...885af68e588c6a0

Yes, it can run hot. When the heat bar is high, fire the SRM's more and the ML's less. Also, you certainly can hit other mech's, including fast mechs, with SRM's. It takes some practice, but if you are comfortable aiming ballistics while on the move, you should have no problem doing this.

Sounds like you already figured out how to turn on a dime using your jump jets. That's one of the best (and most underrated) features of the Jenner. Thanks go to Hayashi for explaining this trick to me when I first started piloting the Jenner.

EDIT: spelling

Edited by knnniggett, 03 March 2013 - 06:31 AM.

[Ferodaktyl]

@ knnniggett
Thanks for the advice. I shamelessly copied your build and i'll give it a try. Not sure about SRMs, my ping is a bit over 150 so it may affect my accuracy. Also, how can i decrease my mouse sensitivity? I think it may help,but I can not find any option in game.

[knight-of-ni]

The game does not allow you to change mouse sensitivity. Although, it may be worth searching to see if someone figured out a way by directly editing the game's XML files. Try at your own risk, of course.

One solution to mouse sensitivity would be to get a mouse with a dpi button on it. That will let you change DPI on the fly. The Logitech G500 is what I use, but I'm not claiming to be an expert on mice. That is the only "gaming" mouse I've ever purchased.

If no dpi button, does your mouse have software that lets you (quickly) load profiles?

A last alternative would be to open the Mouse control panel in Windows and adjust the sensitivity slider. Not as convenient, but it should have the same effect. Who knows, maybe with some Googling you could find a small system tray app that would let you quickly apply mouse profiles to any generic mouse.

With SRM's, try practicing on larger, slower mechs on level terrain, and see how you do. If you miss, watch if the missiles under or over shoot the target. Next time, adjust accordingly. Because I have a low ping, you may have to rely on others for advice on how to do this under a higher ping scenario.

If you do fall back to SSRM's, note that the Advanced Sensor module gives you a larger window of opportunity to get a lock on mechs in an ECM umbrella so that module becomes more important to acquire.

Edited by knnniggett, 03 March 2013 - 08:55 AM.

[Hayashi]

The centre crosshair will turn from yellow to red when you deal damage. Use this to shoot through lagshields. Thing is, even though they say the lagshield is fixed, I observe from the damage readouts that it's still actually delayed. Lasers are the main problem. With SRMs, when it looks like it hits, it hits - lag only makes the missiles take longer between the time you click and the time they leave the launcher. With lasers, it can completely miss even if it looks like it hits unless the yellow crosshair glows red.

This guide has been rendered outdated because of ECM and the lolwut nature of the Craven-3L. Now, since picking a light is liable to giving the enemy team a Craven-3L who can then jam the hell out of you so your Streaks never get to launch, the best JR7-D build now is a dual SRM4 4 MLAS build.

Another trick I learnt more recently is the strafing run. This is the counter to the firing line tactic. People like to form a straight line ('firing line') so that if you attack from the front they can focus all their firepower on you. The Jenner, because of its speed, can counter this very effectively. To do with 1 Jump Jet you need to start the run on a hill or similar. Then you run at the firing line from the edge of the line so that you're flying over all their mechs in a straight row, and drop MLAS and SRM4 on their heads as you do so.

The trick to this is that they cannot return fire immediately, because the nature of the firing line means that they're all blocking each other. When you attack they will always break formation so that they can return fire - but the delay means you can get away in time. During this short time period, make sure your own team charges them from the same direction in which you started the strafing run, because their backs will be turned to that direction. By the time they turn back around to face the 4-5 mechs on your team, likely one or two of them will already be dead, another one or two will chase you still, and the last few in the line will be massively outnumbered by your team.

[Ferodaktyl]

haha, this reminds me of the flanking maneuver in that game with tanks , where you flank a lot of baddies and take a few (more) shots hoping that the team will attack them while they are otherwise engaged (that otherwise being you ). Only after you die a hero you will notice that no one actually bothered to take a shot at their exposed profiles
now seriously, this is a tactical sound maneuver, but definitely not for PUGs. And Jenner can surely pull it off if any mech can and escape alive, with a bit of luck. .

Edited by Ferodaktyl, 03 March 2013 - 12:02 PM.