804 replies to this topic

[Tannhauser Gate]

Bryan Ekman, on 03 May 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Free hugs for this guy! I can be a heart breaker sometimes.. My apologies. Hopefully you caught some of my replies. We are considering adding some of the canon merc units into the faction rule system. These would not be player run organizations.

Simply, I agree that canon factions should not be player-run, period, for all the reasons we and PGI can cite.

But, I think that letting players run self-lead sub units of canon factions is fine as long as the unit doesnt claim to be any part of their parent faction main forces. They would essentially inherit a variation of the original faction name but no longer claim association with them (except maybe in rp only). They could not claim the actual faction name and certainly not claim to be that canon faction.. at all.

I hope this is close to what Bryan means by the "the faction rule system". Id love to see this work for Houses and Clans too.

[Opus]

Insidious Johnson, on 03 May 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Hi! I'm Stephan Amaris! I'm nuking this thread!

Well, it is what it is. Looks like the houseboiz and clanboiz will both pretty much be stooges of NPCs and suffering from cattle call recruiting with little or no means of filtering out bad apples. Pickins is looking GOOD. Mercs will be the best run units and the places vets (who aren't emo-tied to something else) will want to go for the most "pew,pew,pew". At least until they do to Mercs what they did to houses. Bottom line, if your unit is not player run by a competant leader, its peon anarchy soup.

FLAME ON! >interesting topic,, I mean

Edited by Opus, 03 May 2012 - 03:31 PM.

[ASC]

Paul Inouye, on 03 May 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Wicked.. I'm putting Dinosaurs in the game and Gundams!! WOO!!

Can I mount PPCs on a T-Rex?

On a more serious note, I think this is another example of the wise devs are all doing the best they can to make a game which is enjoyable for all.

[Dnarvel]

Paul Inouye, on 03 May 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Wicked.. I'm putting Dinosaurs in the game and Gundams!! WOO!!

Ummm.... Paul? Not sure if anyone has told you yet, but you're technically not a customer, more of a provider. But feel free to add dinosaurs and gundams, more target practice is always a good thing.
XD

On the topic note, Not being able to play as any Canon unit or sub-unit (using a canon name or non-canon name) does make sense, that way the devs still get to control the BT Universe storyline as opposed to the players. For example, if they let players control the clans, who is to say they would be good enough to succeed on any invasion? Maybe their players would lose everybattle and the clans would never appear as strong as in the BT lore. Some things must be under developer control for the survivability of the game.

Edited by Dnarvel, 03 May 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[wwiiogre]

Enjoyable for all except players that wanted to be part of a known merc group. ALL except. Note I didn't say players that want to run the known merc unit.

Chris

[GrimJim]

I've never understood why ppl chose to play as canon units & characters. I always found it more satisfying fighting & felling them. Its seriously satisfying playing a Black Widow Module and acing the Queen of Spades herself.

Bryan got it right. Make yourself more than just an NPC and become something else entirely...

...a legend, Mr. Wayne....

[Roken]

wwiiogre, on 03 May 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Enjoyable for all except players that wanted to be part of a known merc group. ALL except. Note I didn't say players that want to run the known merc unit.

Chris

I think that's the crux of it. We all have our favorite units in the BattleTech Universe. All of us on some level--with a few exceptions I'm sure--want to connect to our favorite factions. The best way to do that traditionally has been by making a "clan" or other group to play with using the names of those factions. In that way, players have been a part of the universe in their own minds. Until now, that has been the expectation they've had. I feel that's fine, but personally I find it silly to let players control such important groups wholesale. The idea of Houses or Merc companies sponsoring or sanctioning (as I mentioned in my previous post) seems to make much more sense to me. Without having my hands on the game, though, I can't see how they've handled any factions in the game and say "They should've done this." Being in closed beta means that it's all about bugfixes, though (following the traditional meaning of what a beta for a game is). So we can point and say "It should be done this way," but I think we should make sure our expectations are a bit more realistic for the time frame this game is on. I mean, they could add more features and push the game back, but the Clan Invasion won't be that far off then!

[Meth0s]

I'll just ask straight out. Do you think that 'Smoke Jaguar Reborn' will be allowed?

[rafgod]

There's nothing cryptic about the dev posts.

Stop panicking, take a breath, clear your mind....and re-read what Bryan wrote.

If you want to be the 12th Vegan Rangers...
If you have a 12thVR website...
If you are recruiting in the forums for a 12thVR unit...

Great. Go for it. DO IT!

You just won't be the 12th Vegan Rangers in-game. They are canon. They have things they are scripted to do in the BT universe. They have places to be in the BT timeline, which is counterproductive to the Merc role in MW:O. It robs the players in a Merc unit from the autonomy that comes with being a Merc unit (namely, choosing employer, choosing your fight, choosing your favorite watering hole).

That is why some merc units may end up as factions..for those that want to be in the scripted way of things, perhaps.

Would you have more fun as the 4th Skye Rangers? or as the 44th Sky Riders who get to invade Earth with only a lance of jenners? Clearly, the latter.

[Salesninja]

Pvt Dancer, on 03 May 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

Oh, you know how it is Paul.... "assume means make an @ss out of you and me". Now you guys are the bad guys for 'misleading' and the people involved feel 'betrayed' because they expected to be special, unique snowflakes.

I think making the Merc corp as a faction is fine, and I think folk who make fan sites for their 'versions' of the faction is fine. Since the Highlanders are posting alot, will use them for an example for how I see it. You guys can join the Highlanders as a faction. Once in, you can be Captain Radjak Ryan of the Bagpipers of Doom of the Northwind Highlanders. You can create your own group /inside/ of the faction, but you can not /claim/ the faction and thus direct it or boss people around. You can have a off-site webpage for the Bagpipers of Doom, but if someone wants to join the Northwind Highlanders, they do /not/ have to go through you to be part of it. If they want to be Bagpipers of Doom, well, that is your baby, your call.

I do not understand why people are so hung up as that they /have/ to be called 'Clan Wolf', NWHs, Kell Hounds, ect. Does it /really/ matter? Do people really care?

Salesninja, on 27 April 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

I don't understand posts like this. Who cares? I do. We do. There are obviously a lot of people who DO in fact care. The fact that we are all posting and voicing our thoughts and opinions is a pretty significant indicator that people care. This is mechwarrior! One of the greatest IP's ever created. I don't think it's a crime to have a favorite faction or unit you want to play under. There are so many games out there where people don't care at all about what team they play for...call of duty anyone? No thanks. I'll contine to sit here and pray for the day this game is playable for us. And if it's half as good as I think it will be. I will keep caring about it long after the lemmings have moved onto the next flavor of the month.

I am shamlessly quoting myself here cause I was too lazy to type this again. Guess what, people still care. Maybe you dont, good for you, want a cookie?

Edited by Salesninja, 03 May 2012 - 03:48 PM.

[Omega59er]

Bryan Ekman, on 03 May 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Free hugs for this guy! I can be a heart breaker sometimes.. My apologies. Hopefully you caught some of my replies. We are considering adding some of the canon merc units into the faction rule system. These would not be player run organizations.

At this point, I would be extremely happy if the Wolf's Dragoons was a faction that merc companies could join under. It's better being under a Wolf's Dragoons faction than being denied your loyalties that you have had in place for a decade. Dragoons forever.

[Inappropriate359]

This is great. The last thing I want to see are players making well known merc companies like Kells and then being terrible at the game. Talk about crushing immersion.

[Hylius]

Okay, these statements are a bit murky and can be misconstrued multiple ways. Some clarification would be nice.

For example, our unit: Eridani Light Pony. Our name is a derivative of a canon unit. However we claim no ties to the ELH, do not claim to represent them, be a subfaction, that their history is ours, etc. etc. We just derived our name and icon based on theirs due to both being equines. That's it. Does that fall under the canon protection scheme? I don't think so the way you described it but it would be nice for it to be in the clear, because I imagine a lot of people would report it just because of the naming. (If you do allow a report method for names, I'd suggest implementing a "cannot report because already verified to be okay" setting in your design so you don't have to waste time on stuff already discussed. Plus it removes the "this mod said it was okay but you say it's not and now my group is disbanded" moments.)

[empath]

...

Okay.

So I'm going to take the safer assumption that "Team Banzai" (which might well have its own separate trademark issues ) is going on the 'Canon Merc Unit List'; I guess we can throw "Banzai Institute for Advanced Armored Warfare" in the hat, instead. *shrug*

No biggie. BIAAW almost sounds like a battle cry.

My only concern is not directly relating to MW:O itself, but...well, [TB] was active in the NBT/MWL era, and I'd come along as MW4:Mercs was dying down...and I never actually got around to being officially admitted into the team/clan/unit (and they have {had?} protocols for this), so despite being just about the only active poster back on the BI's forums for a 'lean period', and kinda the active representative over here, I'm hardly the Sempai or anything...

...meh, this is gonna be like herding cats, for pete's sake...

[Steinar Bergstol]

jimsolo, on 03 May 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

"The Customer is ALWAYS right"

Now, I've been working in customer service for close to a decade and a half (and I've even managed to retain some small semblance of sanity through it all), and I feel I can say this with fairly good reason:

The customer rarely even knows what they're talking about, never mind being right about anything.

Really, did you honestly expect to be able to run one of the big-name factions? And yes, many of the merc companies people have been choosing to claim are every bit as big a part of the lore as the Houses themselves or any House regiments. Did you really expect that? Really? Did you expect that this would _not_ have caused problems with every other fan of said unit who wanted to claim the name as well? Or that it would not cause problems with any storyline the devs might want to run the game through?

Sure, it might be a blow to the ego not to be able to claim to be in charge of the best canon unit in the BT universe (whicever unit any particular person feels that might be), but honestly, making your own merc unit from scratch is a Battletech tradition stretching from the first Mercenary's Handbook and even before that.

Wanna run a famous merc unit? Make your own legacy rather than piggybacking on the reputation of canon units created by the writers of the game.

Edited by Steinar Bergstol, 03 May 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[Fresh Meat]

This is great news, the game needs some regulation to keep it orderly and to not allow people to slander canon unit names or events. After all there is a great backdrop fiction being told, our battles are sideline to the main events.

[Evex]

These are some things Bryan posted in the merc corp recruiting forum. I believe some of the answers can be applied to faction units and clans.

Quote

There are 5965 canon units

In other words a player will not be able to register, or claim any of those 5,965 cannon units.

Quote

I fully expect not everyone will be happy. But let's be honest here. There is no way to allow player run merc units to use canon names. It's just not logical or fair. Period.

I'm very open to the idea of including units such as WD and GDL in MWO as non-player run factions. This makes a lot of sense, and is fair.

In simple terms players controlling cannon groups could mess with the continuity and the time line of battletech/mechwarrior which would be a bad thing.

Bryan's answer to some one asking about claiming association.

Quote

We can't control people "claiming assocaition", however if your name implies association, it will be changed.

Edit


Bryan gives details about claiming Canon Merc's <- link to topic with bryans answers

Edited by Evex, 03 May 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[Damon Howe]

Hylius, on 03 May 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Okay, these statements are a bit murky and can be misconstrued multiple ways. Some clarification would be nice.

For example, our unit: Eridani Light Pony. Our name is a derivative of a canon unit. However we claim no ties to the ELH, do not claim to represent them, be a subfaction, that their history is ours, etc. etc. We just derived our name and icon based on theirs due to both being equines. That's it. Does that fall under the canon protection scheme? I don't think so the way you described it but it would be nice for it to be in the clear, because I imagine a lot of people would report it just because of the naming. (If you do allow a report method for names, I'd suggest implementing a "cannot report because already verified to be okay" setting in your design so you don't have to waste time on stuff already discussed. Plus it removes the "this mod said it was okay but you say it's not and now my group is disbanded" moments.)

Agreed here. Hoping the ELPMC pulls through just fine.

In other news...hooray for the Skjaldborg being perhaps the ONLY merc unit to not have a derivative of any kind!!! (that I know of!!! Dihm, you better not be holding out on us! )

Edited by Damon Howe, 03 May 2012 - 04:06 PM.

[Okie135]

I kinda expected something like this. I choose to wait on starting a unit or joining one until the game comes out because I want to see how the merc corps are done. That, and the idea of getting a group together under an awesome name, and then finding out that we need to change it because some other player thought the name was cool and beat us to the sign up is a rather irritating prospect.

[Sassori]

Long and Short: Trying to pick SkyeRangers without a space will still get you pimp slapped. Any merc unit name that looks like an attempt to 'take' or be affiliated with an established merc/unit name, is going to fail.

If you want to be a part of a famous House Unit, start as the base house (you and your friends!) queue up together, use voip, work and become part of that famous House Unit.

Nobody (But the devs) has the right to tell anyone they can, or cannot be, from a particular unit or faction. Period.

Keep your websites, use them, but realize that in the game you won't have that tag, unless you earn it or big enough mercenary groups become factions themselves, in which case you're still in the same boat as a House person.

If you want to be able to tell people 'No!' then make up your /OWN/ unit, that is completely yours. It's the only /FAIR/ thing to do on PGI's behalf and anyone who gets their panties in a wad about that needs to simply grow up imho.