117 replies to this topic

[Xeven]

Agent of Change, on 13 November 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

The game is as live as it's goign to be however under the cover of the open-beta label, you should expect bugs, changes, buffs, nerfs, etc.... (This is why a barely functional but still fun game should not have moved to open beta but i digress)

The point is is that it is Beta, and you asked for a refund of imaginary money honestly if you got anything back I would have been shocked and surprised. Mistakes are made (we all occasionally make them) you are a founder just regrind it.

I do expect bugs, changes, buffs, nerfs, etc.... and I am only asking PGI to consider it's customers while they and we go through this tumultuous period of Open Beta and balancing . Make us (customers) "happy" when you can.

Jings, on 13 November 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

No.

You can do a damn lot of things, you can call it a damn lot of things, but you can not call this a bait and switch.

No money has been transferred.

Accusing them of bait and switch is a lot worse than simply saying you aren't happy with something you bought being made less effective or useless - It's accusing them of sales fraud, something they are nowhere near guilty of. It doesn't matter how much of a point you have, or how dissatisfied you are with the methods used and handling of rebalancing and the virtual economy - Accusing them of sales fraud is a ridiculous exaggeration.

Bait and switch with fake money in a video game is absurd.

Absolutely money has been transfered I have bought Mechs with MC and decided I no longer wanted them and got CB in return. Also time is money. My virtual time has value just as does their upgrades.

[SPARTAN 104]

SO you bought a Truck and they shipped a Honda CRX.
Sounds like a great deal to me!!!

[Aym]

I am greatly confused, if a company makes a balance change, somehow I am owed something... I don't get it. Yes I am frustrated at the c-bill costs I wasted expirimenting with DHS and Endo, the former because they weren't as advertised and the latter because I couldn't check my loadout with it in place before buying. I totally get that, but it's MONOPOLY MONEY. I'll just play the game some more, enjoy myself with my friends, and have a surplus of C-bills in no time flat.

[Xeven]

D34K, on 13 November 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

MCs = real money, cbills = virtual money achieved through playing the game.

Your scenario is a bit like me spending all my gold in some MMORPG on nice weapons. These weapons later get patched because they (or the game around them) were broken, unbalanced, or whatever. I'm not then complaining to Blizzard or whoever asking for gold back because they don't currently do what I hoped, that's not how it works.

Given we're in beta, the risk of broken stuff is even greater. My advice? Use trial mechs.

While I disagree with you about the MC and CB cause they dont let you sell Mechs you bought with MC back for MC. I do agree that our best choice if they are going to ignore customer satisfaction may well be just play for free and use Trial Mechs. They wont last long if we all do that however.

[Rifter]

Xeven, on 13 November 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

Absolutely money has been transfered I have bought Mechs with MC and decided I no longer wanted them and got CB in return. Also time is money. My virtual time has value just as does their upgrades.

I think this right here seems to be the point most posters in this thread are missing.

[Ryokens leap]

Who is playing this game a bunch of 12 year olds with paper routes. Is $30, $80, or $120 really that much money? Stop crying about freakin pocket change or go back to your X-BOX, just shut up already. And if you havnt heard yet MWO is in BETA!

[MadPanda]

Xeven, on 13 November 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

The Mechlab that fails to save and often appears to eat C-Bills.

It never eats your cb's. You always purchase the items you had on the mech, they just do not get equipped on the mech. You can easily see this when you go back and get the same stuff, the cb cost is 0. You already bought the items previously, the mechlab just failed to save them on your mech but it did save them in your inventory.

[Artgathan]

What we have here is a perfect example of 'Buyer Beware'. It is your duty as the consumer to inform yourself of the product you are purchasing before you purchase it (even with fake money in a video game). If you fail to do so, it is not the responsibility of the company to make up for your actions.

[Xeven]

Aym, on 13 November 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

I am greatly confused, if a company makes a balance change, somehow I am owed something... I don't get it. Yes I am frustrated at the c-bill costs I wasted expirimenting with DHS and Endo, the former because they weren't as advertised and the latter because I couldn't check my loadout with it in place before buying. I totally get that, but it's MONOPOLY MONEY. I'll just play the game some more, enjoy myself with my friends, and have a surplus of C-bills in no time flat.

If you order from your TV provider a Superbowl game and instead they give you a Wrestling match do you deserve to get a refund? After all its all just virtual shows on TV. Nothing tangible there.

Rifter, on 13 November 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

I think this right here seems to be the point most posters in this thread are missing.

Yes it is a part of the equation.

[SPARTAN 104]

MadPanda, on 13 November 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

It never eats your cb's. You always purchase the items you had on the mech, they just do not get equipped on the mech. You can easily see this when you go back and get the same stuff, the cb cost is 0. You already bought the items previously, the mechlab just failed to save them on your mech but it did save them in your inventory.

Oh yes it does...You never lost whole mechs? Whole Loadouts? Whole stacks of Weapons? hmmm. I want what your having sir.

[Rifter]

Aym, on 13 November 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

I am greatly confused, if a company makes a balance change, somehow I am owed something... I don't get it. Yes I am frustrated at the c-bill costs I wasted expirimenting with DHS and Endo, the former because they weren't as advertised and the latter because I couldn't check my loadout with it in place before buying. I totally get that, but it's MONOPOLY MONEY. I'll just play the game some more, enjoy myself with my friends, and have a surplus of C-bills in no time flat.

To alot of people(okay mostly adults i guess teenagers can play all day) is time is money.

I dont have time to sit around all day grinding.

[Xeven]

Artgathan, on 13 November 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

What we have here is a perfect example of 'Buyer Beware'. It is your duty as the consumer to inform yourself of the product you are purchasing before you purchase it (even with fake money in a video game). If you fail to do so, it is not the responsibility of the company to make up for your actions.

You are correct and is in part the point of the post to make sure other players are aware. I am simply negotiating with a service provider.

[Allekatrase]

CodeNameValtus, on 13 November 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

There is a reason why it costs you C-Bills to install DHS and to downgrade to SHS on the same mech. Think of it as paying your pit crew to change all that for you. It takes time to do lengthy upgrades/downgrades like that. If you want the 'hot tech' you pay to get it installed. If you go on to find out it wasn't all it was cracked up to be, you pay to downgrade, just like EVERYONE else.

This argument is invalid. If you have to pay a "pit crew" then why don't you have to pay your pit crew to install weapons? Why don't you have to pay them to mount/unmount heat sinks? Why don't you have to pay them to SWAP OUT THE ENTIRE ENGINE which in the case of XL engines takes up space in three body parts and is a core part of the mech.

This line of logic is a complete apology for a bad system created by PGI. The system is inconsistent. If they're going to charge to upgrade and downgrade they should have service fees for all equipment changes. Also, the fees shouldn't be the same the whole time because the internals/heatsinks you are paying your pit crew to swap you would already own after the first time.

This whole system needs to be fixed. It's inexcusable in its current state.

Edited by Allekatrase, 13 November 2012 - 06:16 AM.

[potatoparrot]

Xeven, on 13 November 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

Absolutely money has been transfered I have bought Mechs with MC and decided I no longer wanted them and got CB in return. Also time is money. My virtual time has value just as does their upgrades.

You have spent MC on 'Mechs and subsequently they have been reduced in effectiveness, leading you to conclude that you no longer desire them. Unfortunately, this is still not grounds for a bait and switch as the game is not feature-complete, is undergoing continual rebalancing on a weekly basis and it is consistently made abundantly clear that things are going to be changing significantly very frequently. Your decision to spend real money on an incomplete game is yours and yours alone - PGI at no point promised that 'Mech A would remain as powerful as it is at the time of purchase.

You are failing to understand that requesting refunds due to balancing adjustments is nothing short of self-entitlement.

Seriously. This game isn't finished, quite blatantly unfinished, the fact that you're complaining about that is just ridiculous. Did you really think that they wouldn't be making drastic adjustments that might significantly change the metagame? Did you really think that putting real money into a game this turbulent was a wise investment, and that if your investment didn't pay dividends you'd be allowed to just hit undo at will?

No, I'm afraid that isn't how it's going to work. PGI are not going to, and should not have to, deal with everybody's need to have their fun-money refunded when they make a balance adjustment that people disagree with - Regardless of how drastic that balance adjustment is. You are responsible for your purchases here, you are assuming that they will remain as they are at time of purchase, PGI have made no such claims.

Your accusation of sales fraud is nothing more than a petty attempt to get PGI to refund your pretend money because you aren't happy that some of your grinding time was spent on something that was rebalanced.

If your time is so valuable, perhaps you should invest it elsewhere. PGI aren't going to be refunding your wasted time whenever they change something and you don't like it.

[John Horrigan]

N E R F

[Agent of Change]

Rifter, on 13 November 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

They can call it beta all they want but the truth of the matter is as you said its as live as its ever going to be. And we shouldnt need to regrind every time they nerf somehting because they rushed the game out the door. Its not our fault they coudlnt see that the game was not ready to go live, hell most users told them as much and they launched it anyways.

Xeven, on 13 November 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

I do expect bugs, changes, buffs, nerfs, etc.... and I am only asking PGI to consider it's customers while they and we go through this tumultuous period of Open Beta and balancing . Make us (customers) "happy" when you can.

The larger point is playing the game in it's current state is a choice. No one has forced you to spend time on it, nor were there ever an requirements that you spend c-bills on the 'new thing' (most people are going to because that's largely why we are here), it remains a personal choice. Now i would normally disregard my last sentiment as a totally disingenuous argument if not for one fact, PGI has stressed this is an 'open-beta', now how ever we feel about the actual status of the game their insistance on that term creates an implied expectation. I.e. **** is bugged and **** will break, or 'play at your own risk' as you will be finding and dealing with changes and bugs some of which will be game or economy breaking or both.

It really sucks that whoever made the call put their customers in a situation like this in light of what is for all intents and purposes is release (that is a whole other ball of wax) but the point is I don't think you have a strong leg to stand on in feeling wronged here. i understand your frustration I do but I just can't agree with you.

[CodeNameValtus]

Rifter, on 13 November 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

I think this right here seems to be the point most posters in this thread are missing.

Xeven, on 13 November 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

I do expect bugs, changes, buffs, nerfs, etc.... and I am only asking PGI to consider it's customers while they and we go through this tumultuous period of Open Beta and balancing . Make us (customers) "happy" when you can.


Absolutely money has been transfered I have bought Mechs with MC and decided I no longer wanted them and got CB in return. Also time is money. My virtual time has value just as does their upgrades.

Your time IS valuable! But what you do with it determines its value. Playing a video game for monopoly money does not give your life value. Working for the man does. I spent many years in my youth thinking in these terms. Well if I were at work, my time would be worth X, so it is worth Y to do Z. This is simply incorrect. You can't put everything in terms of time=money.

Otherwise, you'd all just be lazy unhealthy slobs. Because somehow your brain would rationalize that it's not worth it to do anything. You'd just shut down.

Your time is only worth money when you work for someone, or at owning a business. Once you punch off that clock, your time is worth $0. It's what you do that adds value to your life!

By using the logic you have provided; 1 hour spent sleeping is equal to 1 hour spent working at a soup kitchen, which is also equal to 1 hour spent playing a video game, which is also equal to 1 hour spent dreaming of how you'd spend a million dollars.

These things aren't equal....You can't use the time=money equation outside of work.

[Xeven]

Jings, on 13 November 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

No.

You can do a damn lot of things, you can call it a damn lot of things, but you can not call this a bait and switch.

No money has been transferred.

Accusing them of bait and switch is a lot worse than simply saying you aren't happy with something you bought being made less effective or useless - It's accusing them of sales fraud, something they are nowhere near guilty of. It doesn't matter how much of a point you have, or how dissatisfied you are with the methods used and handling of rebalancing and the virtual economy - Accusing them of sales fraud is a ridiculous exaggeration.

Bait and switch with fake money in a video game is absurd.

I will agree to disagree with you. Again I do not think PGI attempted to Bait and Switch us intentionaly but the result of their implementation is the same as a Bait and Switch. Customers buy one thing and are given something different.

[Rifter]

Jings, on 13 November 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

You have spent MC on 'Mechs and subsequently they have been reduced in effectiveness, leading you to conclude that you no longer desire them. Unfortunately, this is still not grounds for a bait and switch as the game is not feature-complete, is undergoing continual rebalancing on a weekly basis and it is consistently made abundantly clear that things are going to be changing significantly very frequently. Your decision to spend real money on an incomplete game is yours and yours alone - PGI at no point promised that 'Mech A would remain as powerful as it is at the time of purchase.

You are failing to understand that requesting refunds due to balancing adjustments is nothing short of self-entitlement.

Seriously. This game isn't finished, quite blatantly unfinished, the fact that you're complaining about that is just ridiculous. Did you really think that they wouldn't be making drastic adjustments that might significantly change the metagame? Did you really think that putting real money into a game this turbulent was a wise investment, and that if your investment didn't pay dividends you'd be allowed to just hit undo at will?

No, I'm afraid that isn't how it's going to work. PGI are not going to, and should not have to, deal with everybody's need to have their fun-money refunded when they make a balance adjustment that people disagree with - Regardless of how drastic that balance adjustment is. You are responsible for your purchases here, you are assuming that they will remain as they are at time of purchase, PGI have made no such claims.

Your accusation of sales fraud is nothing more than a petty attempt to get PGI to refund your pretend money because you aren't happy that some of your grinding time was spent on something that was rebalanced.

If your time is so valuable, perhaps you should invest it elsewhere. PGI aren't going to be refunding your wasted time whenever they change something and you don't like it.

Perhaps you should familerize yourself with the definition of a beta:

Beta

Beta (named after the second letter of the Greek alphabet) is the software development phase following alpha. It generally begins when the software is feature complete.

Full definition located here

http://en.wikipedia....ease_life_cycle

[Elizander]

This argument is invalid. Any game will make patches and balance tweaks to items.