124 replies to this topic

[ROFLwaffle49]

You have to think about new players. If they add only Assault mechs or heavies it limits the ability of new players when they first start. More lights means more first purchase mechs with more options. Getting a few million c-bills on a trial mech is hard enough, so my guess is they want players to be able to buy a light mech that they actually want to use instead of grinding through with trials until they get enough for a heavy or an assault.

[Sephlock]

I don't know about all that, but we don't need another superlight mech- whats next, an Elemental (actually that would be pretty cool)?

I mean FFS the commando is practically the size of a human pilot*!


*Yes I'm exaggerating, don't jump on me, TT purists.

[Sayyid]

Why do people want a Highlander?

There is no DFA, so that kills one of its most potent attacks.

There is no physicals, which kills another of its attacks, kicks.

Its a Gauss or AC20 mech and thats really about it. What will it do that the Atlas cant do?

[Onyx Rain]

Raalic, on 13 November 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

There was a poll some time ago that indicated most players (and by a wide margin, maybe 40 points) prefer "chicken walkers" to humanoid 'mechs.

That being said, let's look at the spread (in terms of leg orientation):

Commando - Humanoid
Jenner - Humanoid
Spider - Humanoid
Raven - Chicken
Flea - Chicken

Cicada - Chicken
Hunchback - Humanoid
Centurion - Humanoid
Trebuchet - Humanoid
Blackjack - Humanoid

Dragon - Humanoid
Catapult - Chicken
Cataphract - Technically Chicken
Jagermech - Humanoid

Awesome - Humanoid
Stalker - Chicken
Highlander - Humanoid
Atlas - Humanoid

By my count, the Humanoids take it 12 to 6. And that's allowing for the Cataphract to be considered a so-called Chicken Walker. If I'm going to count the Jenner as Humanoid, I suppose this is a fair tradeoff.

Whether a 'mech has both jumpjets and is humanoid seems totally silly and irrelevant, to me. Needing an assault with jumpjets, however, is certainly fair.

Why you gotta hate on the sexiness that is inspired by the beloved AT-ST?

All valid stuff... but it was only part of my argument, and my main point is about balance in getting something in for everyone. So the humaniod abundance kinda backs that up. I'd love to see quads...I'd love to see more Raptor legged mechs with arms...I want the chicken lovers to have their mechs too...and I'd like to see whatever doesn't quite fit in these categories like the mandrill.





As to why humanoid+JJ is relevant...
(It might and preferences like it may not be to you, But...)

It is because there are people out there who don't like to pilot mechs they don't like the look of...or don't like to pilot certain kinds/weight classes of mechs without JJ....some people probably don't want to pilot anything without JJ...and others may not ever want to pilot anything with JJ....Most of us are a mix with perferences...but some of that mix has been neglected more then others.

Basically I feel the Highlander even as a humanoid, enriches the mix more then the flea while helping to alleviate more neglect within that mix then the flea. Now if there is a raptor legged assault with JJ, within this games time period that is Inner Sphere...(and i like it ) That may be an even better way to go. I'll wait for my highlander for the good of the game in that case.

I think the more balanced they are in getting something in for everyone, while also getting in the most popular mechs in BT....the better for the short and long term success of the game.

At the very least the Highlander seems MUCH more popular then the flea and thus it is probably better to get it in the game sooner...rather then later.

Love star wars...hate the AT...the walker was better

Edited by Onyx Rain, 13 November 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[Sayyid]

I like the Flea. But I would rather have a LCT-1V Locust, but thats not happening due to the "Unseen" lawsuit. So I will settle for a Flea.

We need more mediums.

I wish they would add 1 mech per class per month instead of ONE mech ONCE every Blue Moon.

[Onyx Rain]

Sayyid, on 13 November 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

Why do people want a Highlander?

There is no DFA, so that kills one of its most potent attacks.

There is no physicals, which kills another of its attacks, kicks.

Its a Gauss or AC20 mech and thats really about it. What will it do that the Atlas cant do?

Why I want a Highlander...
#1 it looks cool...#2 it is another assault...#3 it has JJ,

In response to the rest...

JJ's are still pretty useful without DFA, and hopefully DFA will be in before the super far out projected date for the Highlander.

Collisions are coming back, and actually there kinda was DFA before...I've stepped on jenners and killed them without shooting. If you'll notice you can still bump a mech, take and give dmg that way...not a lot...but some. All this is being worked on and/or coming back if it was taken otu....In some form.

It looks different then an Atlas...I like the way it looks better. It does have JJ, and even the so-so implementation we have now means that it will FLY....kinda

Ya similar load out I guess...but still, it will be a different mech, that you can play differently, and looks differently. More variety is just better IMO...and similar load outs don't necessarily = same style of play. I'll play this Highlander different then my atlas...I can already see that at this point. JJ may help make an XL worth it...and with JJ and near 70Kph with almost as much armor as an atlas...it will be deadly. Heck I did pretty well in XL atlases...better then in my standard engine brawlers a lot of the time...you just play em different. It is also something between the atlas and the awesome, and offers something like a hybrid...but with JJ ...and it is a 3rd assaut mech which we need more of anyways...might as well be a really popular one that also has JJ.

Edited by Onyx Rain, 13 November 2012 - 01:41 PM.

[ROFLwaffle49]

Thats would be flooding the game with new mechs, no one would know how to play them if they came out that fast. Also, SOOOOO much more work than they are capable of at this point.

[Onyx Rain]

Sayyid, on 13 November 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

I like the Flea. But I would rather have a LCT-1V Locust, but thats not happening due to the "Unseen" lawsuit. So I will settle for a Flea.

We need more mediums.

I wish they would add 1 mech per class per month instead of ONE mech ONCE every Blue Moon.

It is re-seen, and Russ said they didn't have the rights to SOME unseen in Kotaku chat the other day...the "some" makes me wonder if he means the re-seen, or maybe even some of the still unseen....doubtful..but maybe. Hate the locust too though

Yes we do need more mediums, but we'll have the treb, and blackjack before the highlander with the current release schedual, and there is the cicada which I don't count but some might, and the hunch, centurion, and YLW hero mech already in game.

The Jager will be a heavy which will give us 4 with the cataphract and 2 will have JJ. So a light mech or 2, is most deserving of being pushed back IMO, but medium is probably second most deserving of being pushed back...arguably heavy could be the 2nd most deserving of being pushed back though...and medium 3rd. Even with the stalker we still need an assault with JJ, and probably more assaults period considering how popular they are.

Totally with you on wanting mech introduction to speed the heck up.

Edited by Onyx Rain, 13 November 2012 - 01:52 PM.

[Onyx Rain]

ROFLwaffle49, on 13 November 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

You have to think about new players. If they add only Assault mechs or heavies it limits the ability of new players when they first start. More lights means more first purchase mechs with more options. Getting a few million c-bills on a trial mech is hard enough, so my guess is they want players to be able to buy a light mech that they actually want to use instead of grinding through with trials until they get enough for a heavy or an assault.

You make a valid point, but they also need to consider their overall player base...and the founders which have proven they are willing the shell out cash for the game...and assaults are popular, JJ mechs are popular, and both are potentially big money makers, even if it is just getting more of those already here to stay...and spend/buy more MC.

Plus the noobs already have 4 fairly cheap mechs to buy when they get some c-bills, and as of now the schedual says they'll get 2 more. I've got nothing to buy right now till the cataphract and after that nothing till the spider...maybe I'll try a blackjack, treb or jager if I get bored...but I'm not excited about any of those.

They tout role warfare...but then they flood us with lights, which all basically do the same thing.

Edited by Onyx Rain, 13 November 2012 - 02:01 PM.

[ROFLwaffle49]

So here is my view, while I completely agree that there isn't a bunch for us founders to salavate over very soon I think the real core of the game, all the good stuff, is at least a year away. With that in mind I gladly sacrifice a few new assault mechs for a greater fan base. While this does alienate the founders we have proven that we are willing to wait. Its not a perfect plan but they are making a good product and I wouldn't have it any other way. More people means this game lasts longer and gives us that clan tech we all want down the line.

[shabowie]

I dinna ken how they can put in the Highlander without Death from Above attacks in the game. If I can't drop all 90 tons on your dome what's the point?

Edited by shabowie, 13 November 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[Onyx Rain]

shabowie, on 13 November 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

I dinna ken how they can put in the Highlander without Death from Above attacks in the game. If I can't drop all 90 tons on your dome what's the point?

No offense to this guy, but there has been enough people who have said something to this effect I gotta ask...

Are you all serious?

Can people really not see the benefit in being able to jj up a hill, at an angle most of the enemies weapons can't track, leap over cover to cut off a fleeing enemy...or get away from an attacking one, get to a good sniping position with that gauss rifle, rain down gauss and srm6 rounds from above, get yourself out of awkward map positions, etc etc etc.... and that it is just basically awesome in general?

Edited by Onyx Rain, 13 November 2012 - 02:42 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Raalic, on 13 November 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

There was a poll some time ago that indicated most players (and by a wide margin, maybe 40 points) prefer "chicken walkers" to humanoid 'mechs.

That being said, let's look at the spread (in terms of leg orientation):

Commando - Humanoid
Jenner - Humanoid
Spider - Humanoid
Raven - Chicken
Flea - Chicken

Cicada - Chicken
Hunchback - Humanoid
Centurion - Humanoid
Trebuchet - Humanoid
Blackjack - Humanoid

Dragon - Humanoid
Catapult - Chicken
Cataphract - Technically Chicken
Jagermech - Humanoid

Awesome - Humanoid
Stalker - Chicken
Highlander - Humanoid
Atlas - Humanoid

By my count, the Humanoids take it 12 to 6. And that's allowing for the Cataphract to be considered a so-called Chicken Walker. If I'm going to count the Jenner as Humanoid, I suppose this is a fair tradeoff.

Whether a 'mech has both jumpjets and is humanoid seems totally silly and irrelevant, to me. Needing an assault with jumpjets, however, is certainly fair.

Why you gotta hate on the sexiness that is inspired by the beloved AT-ST?

Just a quick point on the leg configuration terminology...


Humanoid 'Mechs (Jenner, Atlas, Hunchback, Dragon, Centurion, Commando, Awesome, Trebuchet, JagerMech, Spider, Highlander, Blackjack) are "plantigrade" - the whole of the foot is normally on the ground and used to support weight during standing and locomotion.

Quote

The primary advantages of a plantigrade foot are stability and weight-bearing ability; plantigrade feet have the largest surface area. The primary disadvantage of a plantigrade foot is speed. With more bones and joints in the foot, the leg is both shorter and heavier at the far end, which makes it difficult to move rapidly.

"Double-knee" 'Mechs (Hollander, Nova Cat, Thanatos) are "digitigrade" - they stand and walk on their toes and the balls of their feet (the lower/second "knee" is actually the ankle) rather than walking on the whole of the foot like the plantigrades.

Quote

Digitigrades are generally quicker and move more quietly than other mammals.

Reverse-joint 'Mechs (Catapult, Raven, Cicada, Cataphract, Stalker, Flea) are something of a hybrid of plantigrade and digitigrade - they are technically plantigrades, but attempt to mimic the quickness advantage of true digitigrades by their design.
As actual chickens (and most if not all walking birds) are in fact true digitigrades, referring to such mecha as "chicken-walkers" or "bird-walkers" is a bit of a misnomer.

Finally, tripodal 'Mechs (Ares, Hedgehog) and quadrupedal 'Mechs (Balius, Goliath, Scorpion) tend to have well-defined feet upon which they stand and walk, and so are not ungulates (stand and walk on the ends of their toes; hoofed animals fall into this category) nor are they digitigrades - these, too, would technically be plantigrades.
With a greater number of contact points and (typically) lower profiles, the combination of a wider base and lower CG makes them more stable on uneven terrain than bipeds.

The "TL; DR":

[Onyx Rain]

We need kilts to show off our highlander legs....Drives the Highland girls crazy.

[AlanEsh]

I'd rather have the Victor than the Highlander. For sentimental reasons.

I'd also rather have a couple of 55 ton 5/8/5 mechs. For Where's-My-Wolverine? reasons.

[Vermaxx]

I say to hell with every new mech and reassign the model people who know coding to fix all the important issues.

The rest can continue to plod away at models at whatever pace they're capable of. I'm tired of seeing content announced while glaring gameplay issues continue for months. Even the content upgrades get delayed monstrously.

[Karl Marlow]

Er I was going to vote yes but the only yes option had a caveat about Assault JJ which I don't care about.

The flea feels like a Joke to me. It's not all that fast and its a 20 ton mech. I'll probably be proven wrong when it gets into the game but the Flea just looks like a weak addition when compared to alot of other mechs coming up. Highlander is hihg on my list of mechs I want. the Blackjack and Jagermechs are the others I'm really looking forward to.

[Onyx Rain]

ThomasMarik, on 14 November 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

Er I was going to vote yes but the only yes option had a caveat about Assault JJ which I don't care about.

The flea feels like a Joke to me. It's not all that fast and its a 20 ton mech. I'll probably be proven wrong when it gets into the game but the Flea just looks like a weak addition when compared to alot of other mechs coming up. Highlander is hihg on my list of mechs I want. the Blackjack and Jagermechs are the others I'm really looking forward to.

Caveat or not, the main point is to express the desire to have the Highlander be a greater priority. That 4th option doesn't mention the caveat either...So why not vote yes, even if your reasons are different then mine?

Vermaxx, on 14 November 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

I say to hell with every new mech and reassign the model people who know coding to fix all the important issues.

The rest can continue to plod away at models at whatever pace they're capable of. I'm tired of seeing content announced while glaring gameplay issues continue for months. Even the content upgrades get delayed monstrously.

Understandable but unrealistic that they'll stop content production completely till they hammer all that out....Probably (IMO) even less realistic then my hope they will re-prioritize the Highlander over some other mechs.

Edited by Onyx Rain, 14 November 2012 - 08:37 AM.

[Onyx Rain]

Angelicon, on 14 November 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

I'd rather have the Victor than the Highlander. For sentimental reasons.

I'd also rather have a couple of 55 ton 5/8/5 mechs. For Where's-My-Wolverine? reasons.

I'd prefer the Highlander, but if they decided to drop the victor first I'd be fine with that.

It still gives us both another assault and one with JJ. Doesn't fill our tonnage gap though, and it hasn't even been announced yet so probably even more unlikely then the Highlander coming sooner.

Sadly we're probably both screwed ;(

[vifoxe]

Slab Squathrust, on 13 November 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

NO


Prio 1:DX 11
Prio 2: DX 11

and just to shake thing up a bit

Prio 3 DX 11

Yea ok. Let's not prioritize the things that are going to keep new players in the game. Good thinking.