293 replies to this topic

[The Cheese]

I don't like quoting myself, but I think you might have missed my question in order to focus on the others.

The Cheese, on 13 November 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

I'm also curious as to why you're concerned about what the less skilled players should be able to do. What do you have to gain from the game being less forgiving to the masses?

[Tarman]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

Funny, but Star Trek Online, as an example, is based around the free player and is making MORE money with the way they it set up in a single month than PGI ever did with the founders program. That is something to think about.

The current system forces free players away from buying mechs since they make less for playing an owned mech over a trial. That is economic fact. If they do not buy mechs then they have no need to spend money for MC to buy more mech bays. Owning a mech is a punishment instead of a reward as it should be. Also, with the trial mechs and free players they get to play all of the chassis and variants without spending a single c-bill saving them even more money and further removes the incentive to spend MC.

STO has ALL THE SHINIES. That you never never really need to play tons of the game, but are cool enough that you want them anyway. It's also massively massively larger than MWO in scope, implementation, and backing, so there's that. But they do the shinies in a pretty good way. If you can get people spending money on a CHANCE to get something really good, then you are doing something right.

[Duckwalk]

Even assuming my experience is well beyond the exceptions of an average player, it is still a relevant example of potential earnings a premium player and thus relevant.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Tarman, on 14 November 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

STO has ALL THE SHINIES. That you never never really need to play tons of the game, but are cool enough that you want them anyway. It's also massively massively larger than MWO in scope, implementation, and backing, so there's that. But they do the shinies in a pretty good way. If you can get people spending money on a CHANCE to get something really good, then you are doing something right.

Yes, it does have all the shinies, but it is based around the free player experience and not the paying players. You can earn store cash for store items through regular game play etc... However, the point is that it the economy of it is centered on free players that induces them to spend real money on the game and not be punched in the face for being a free player like MW:O does right now.

PWE has never threatened with a ban for a refund of Zen like I was yesterday from PGI for asking for a refund on MC. With PGI's solution to ban someone for getting a refund how long do you think this game would be around?

Duckwalk, on 14 November 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

Even assuming my experience is well beyond the exceptions of an average player, it is still a relevant example of potential earnings a premium player and thus relevant.

No, it is not since it is a small sample size and subjective. That alone makes your statement invalid in an objective discussion.

[Tarman]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

Yes, it does have all the shinies, but it is based around the free player experience and not the paying players. You can earn store cash for store items through regular game play etc... However, the point is that it the economy of it is centered on free players that induces them to spend real money on the game and not be punched in the face for being a free player like MW:O does right now.

PWE has never threatened with a ban for a refund of Zen like I was yesterday from PGI for asking for a refund on MC. With PGI's solution to ban someone for getting a refund how long do you think this game would be around?



No, it is not since it is a small sample size and subjective. That alone makes your statement invalid in an objective discussion.

I didn't disagree, I was pointing out how successful it is. >______>

[James The Fox Dixon]

Tarman, on 14 November 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

I didn't disagree, I was pointing out how successful it is. >______>

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all but adding to what you said.

[Valore]

The Cheese, on 14 November 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

I don't like quoting myself, but I think you might have missed my question in order to focus on the others.

Sorry, I missed that.

However, your question comes from the completely wrong angle by assuming I make this suggestion with the intentions of making the game less forgiving.

In my opinion, I think people would get a sense of accomplishment when they reach a certain skill level, and they can make money no matter what they run because they play well.

As long as the skill level is not set ludicrously high. Which I don't think it is at the moment.

There is no sense of accomplishment if my rewards are the same no matter what I do.

Not only that, I don't see it as a bad thing if people want to pay because they think it will give them something that somehow makes them better. More money for PGI is something I'm always in favour of as long as its not a ripoff attempt.

Duckwalk, on 14 November 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

Even assuming my experience is well beyond the exceptions of an average player, it is still a relevant example of potential earnings a premium player and thus relevant.

James has a pertinent point though. I can attest to that by the fact that the only MC I've spent up till now is on mechbay slots, mainly because I don't feel they're a ripoff in any way, whether that is being overpriced, or being forced to pay for something I absolutely need.

Edited by Valore, 14 November 2012 - 02:45 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 November 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

oh, and one other thing, why do people forget 1 key fact here? every player gets 1 FREE mech of his or her choice at start up. No MC cost or CB cost, they give you ONE mech at the start.

Says who?

[Tarman]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all but adding to what you said.

If they did give you a ban threat, that's pretty sad. Not a good way to go about customer service. Done enough of that at work to know it doesn't matter even if the customer IS a total ***** or not, it's good business to handle them well when they have (real or perceived) issues. Not really part of ingame finance tweaking except in a general way though. Also, how much of the money handling is PGI, and how much is IGP? Maybe it's the suits being jerks and not the guys closer to the codemonkeys. I have zero idea either way.

[o0Marduk0o]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

PWE has never threatened with a ban for a refund of Zen like I was yesterday from PGI for asking for a refund on MC. With PGI's solution to ban someone for getting a refund how long do you think this game would be around?

What was your reason to ask for a refund?

[Sean von Steinike]

Thorn Hallis, on 14 November 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

Says who?

Well that was the story we were told before trial mechs were introduced.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Tarman, on 14 November 2012 - 02:52 AM, said:

If they did give you a ban threat, that's pretty sad. Not a good way to go about customer service. Done enough of that at work to know it doesn't matter even if the customer IS a total ***** or not, it's good business to handle them well when they have (real or perceived) issues. Not really part of ingame finance tweaking except in a general way though. Also, how much of the money handling is PGI, and how much is IGP? Maybe it's the suits being jerks and not the guys closer to the codemonkeys. I have zero idea either way.

Oh they gave it to me yesterday. I have that email saved and will be used if they do ban my account.

[PlzDie]

The Cheese, on 13 November 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

I'm also curious as to why you're concerned about what the less skilled players should be able to do. What do you have to gain from the game being less forgiving to the masses?

What we have to gain is more people playing and less leaving, the lifespan of this game will be prolonged by making it more attractive for free players. The free players will eventually spend money on this game even if it is only for some MC to by a pair of fluffy dice for their mech.

Otherwise if it turns out to be pain in the neck to grind for everything and the new players don't get anywhere with this game they will leave and go play other games. In the end it will just be us founders left and we are not going to keep this ship floating. Once this game shuts down all you will have left is a fond memory of "I was a founder once".

[James The Fox Dixon]

o0Marduk0o, on 14 November 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

What was your reason to ask for a refund?

The reason I gave was:

Quote

I am requesting a refund to the MC I purchased back in Closed Beta since the economy has made it not worth it to even play now. It takes forever to earn the c-bills due to the costs of repairs and rearms eating up the bulk of any match earnings I get. I have started many a suggestion thread on how to improve the economy, but the developers and the staff at PGI do not bother to read, much less respond to. When it takes two weeks to earn enough c-bills to buy a subsequent variant while running your own mech it is time to call it quits. I had faith in PGI back when I made my purchase because the economy was different than what is currently in the game. As such, I am requesting a refund for my purchase. I don't have a problem with you removing my two catapults and the purchased mech bay, since I used my MC to buy a Catapult A1, premium time, and a mech bay slot.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 14 November 2012 - 02:59 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 02:56 AM, said:

The reason I gave was, "Back in Closed Beta the economy actually rewarded free players and didn't brutalize them. After spending months of discussing the economics of the game the developers have remained silent. This is not the game I paid for since I am forced to play trial mechs instead of my owned mechs. I want a refund because of the changes to the economics."

Seriously, I wouldn't give you a refund for that explanation. It's a non-issue and I wrote here why.

Read PGI's economy threads, there is nothing to discuss about.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 14 November 2012 - 03:01 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

o0Marduk0o, on 14 November 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

Seriously, I wouldn't give you a refund for that explanation. It's a non-issue and I wrote here why.

Read PGI's economy threads, there is nothing to discuss about.

I'm glad that you feel that I'm a non-issue. No, seriously this is exactly why this game will fail to bring in large numbers of free players and why many of them are leaving. You think the economy is fine, but then as a founder your experience is vastly different than what a free player goes through.

There wasn't any stipulations for the MC purchase back in closed beta like there was with founders. I couldn't afford a founders package so I did the next best thing which was to buy MC to support the game. Founders got a refund, but free players can't without getting a ban. Yeah, nothing wrong here with this customer service.

[ForceUser]

o0Marduk0o, on 14 November 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

What was your reason to ask for a refund?

I've got a feeling we don't have all the details, just saying.

Regardless more on topic, You guys are aware that there are tournament level mechs in each weight class (ok maybe not lights) that are cheap to build, do not require every upgrade, and are *extremely* cheap to repair? Hell, we even posted a thread on it in the guides section.

Take the Hunchback 4p for example. The only upgrade it needs is DHS. It runs a standard 260 engine and while the 2.5 tons endo gives is nice, it is in no way nessesary. 9 slas are cheap to buy and repair. Remember, this is a tournament level build. Same goes for the Gausscat; no need for DHS and an XL is totally optional, just needs endo.

The exterminatlus (can be made on 3 of the 4 variants) doesn't use an XL engine, Endo OR expensive weapons and ONLY 3 tons of gauss ammo.

These are all Extremely deadly and good mechs that are cheap to build and arm and repair. Hell even as a premium player I lose money on running an artemis/xl/endo/dhs/6srm Cat, on a WIN. But then it can core an atlas, from the front, in 2 alphas.

We are already seeing AFK grinders in almost every match. For the people advocating for getting MORE cbills on losses, you want those guys to make even MORE money?

And of course, lastly, to round off my post I'll bring up the 'play with a team you noob' point. Even now with phase 1 where teams are limited to 4 players and the rest of the team is pugs 99% of the time, 4 people on comms is enough to completely curbstomp 8 pugs.

You don't want to put in the effort of grouping up but still want everything on a silver platter? Aren't we special

ps. phase 2, coming soon, will drop premades only against premades, iirc. Will see how that works out.

Edited by ForceUser, 14 November 2012 - 03:12 AM.

[Sarevos]

o0Marduk0o, on 14 November 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

Seriously, I wouldn't give you a refund for that explanation. It's a non-issue and I wrote here why.

Read PGI's economy threads, there is nothing to discuss about.

It has to be fun to make money and incredibly long grinds to experience the other 50% of the games content arent fun. I enjoy it because i shelled out money SO I COULD enjoy it and i seem to be a hardcore maso chist (its a bad word apparently XD) judging from my previous experience with MMOs and RPGS FF11 EQ and Persona 3-4 alone tell a sad tale of self torture lol

Edited by Sarevos, 14 November 2012 - 03:11 AM.

[Sarevos]

We have to all agree that the mechlab is HALF of this game and new players dont even get to touch it until about 40 games down the line (and thats only If they win about 50% of the time AND settle for a commando)

Edited by Sarevos, 14 November 2012 - 03:15 AM.

[ForceUser]

Sarevos, on 14 November 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

We have to all agree that the mechlab is HALF of this game and new players dont even get to touch it until about 40 games down the line (and thats only If they win about 50% of the time AND settle for a commando)

Play. in. a. team.

This game is a TEAM based game. Laziness gets no sympathies from me.

I mean we have one of the laziest cats ever in our corp, and he can be bothered to log into TS3 and team up. It's not rocket science

Edited by ForceUser, 14 November 2012 - 03:19 AM.