293 replies to this topic

[Sarevos]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

Play. in. a. team.

This game is a TEAM based game. Laziness gets no sympathies from me.

I dont have a problem I have one and even pugging i make money but i digress

YOU CANT PLAY IN A TEAM BEFORE YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE GAME

So how do you expect new players to invest time into something they dont find fun? you cant mention that i did so because i pointed out that i am not normal and had a desire to MAKE this fun for me

I wonder how much fun you have playing your "team game" if the servers shut down

Edited by Sarevos, 14 November 2012 - 03:22 AM.

[Noth]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

Play. in. a. team.

This game is a TEAM based game. Laziness gets no sympathies from me.

This is perhaps the worst argument on the board... perhaps only out done by the "But in TT" argument. It shows complete ignorance of the market and that other people have different playstyles.

Being a team game does not mean you should be forced to join a premade. The most successful team games have ample support for solo queuing. In fact the largest player base of team games queue or play solo.

Edited by Noth, 14 November 2012 - 03:22 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

I'm glad that you feel that I'm a non-issue. No, seriously this is exactly why this game will fail to bring in large numbers of free players and why many of them are leaving. You think the economy is fine, but then as a founder your experience is vastly different than what a free player goes through.

No, I feel that your refund is not reasonable. This here is no question about founders or non-founders. You simply fail to understand the basics of ingame economy. You don't know how to make money while having a decent mech. You want everything for free with no effort because you want to pilot any mech with any loadout all the time.

You create yourself a problem which doesn't exist if you play the way it is meant to play.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 14 November 2012 - 03:24 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

Play. in. a. team.

This game is a TEAM based game. Laziness gets no sympathies from me.

I mean we have one of the laziest cats ever in our corp, and he can be bothered to log into TS3 and team up. It's not rocket science

How does playing in a team change the economics of the game? It doesn't. Therefore, your suggestion isn't worth anything to a free player being punched in the face repeatedly for playing the game, pugging or in a premade.

[Sarevos]

Noth, on 14 November 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

This is perhaps the worst argument on the board... perhaps only out done by the "But in TT" argument. It shows complete ignorance of the market and that other people have different playstyles.

Being a team game does not mean you should be forced to join a premade. The most successful team games have ample support for solo queuing. In fact the largest player base of team games queue or play solo.

LEAGUE OF LEGENDS... /end arguement

o0Marduk0o, on 14 November 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Feel that your refund is not reasonable. This here is no question about founders or non-founders. You simply fail to understand the basics of ingame economy. You don't know how to make money while having a decent mech. You want everything for free with no effort because you want to pilot any mech with any loadout all the time.

You create yourself a problem which doesn't exist if you play the way it is meant to play.

no it cannot be based on fun for paid it has to be fun for all with frills bells and whistles for paid or it becomes unattractive for those who are trying on a trial basis

[ForceUser]

You mean you can't log onto the forum before you own a mech? Oh wait I know t's because corps don't allow new players to join them right? Oh wait, we do. In fact I was grouping just the other night with a corp mate that was still running his trial mechs, saving up for a hunchie or something. He was pretty psyched when he finally got his own mech and started to customise it.

Saying it in big letters doesn't make it true mate

Noth, on 14 November 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

This is perhaps the worst argument on the board... perhaps only out done by the "But in TT" argument. It shows complete ignorance of the market and that other people have different playstyles.

Being a team game does not mean you should be forced to join a premade. The most successful team games have ample support for solo queuing. In fact the largest player base of team games queue or play solo.

I'd agree with you, if only the game currently DID have proper support for solo players. They do NOT. No lobby, no in game coms with random groups etc.

Once that is in then it'll be a LOT better.

[Sarevos]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

You mean you can't log onto the forum before you own a mech? Oh wait I know t's because corps don't allow new players to join them right? Oh wait, we do. In fact I was grouping just the other night with a corp mate that was still running his trial mechs, saving up for a hunchie or something. He was pretty psyched when he finally got his own mech and started to customise it.

Saying it in big letters doesn't make it true mate

how many people use the forums of a playerbase? 5-10% thats not alot "mate" and why would you waste more time on something that isnt immediately entertaining?

[James The Fox Dixon]

o0Marduk0o, on 14 November 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Feel that your refund is not reasonable. This here is no question about founders or non-founders. You simply fail to understand the basics of ingame economy. You don't know how to make money while having a decent mech. You want everything for free with no effort because you want to pilot any mech with any loadout all the time.

You create yourself a problem which doesn't exist if you play the way it is meant to play.

My reasons were as valid as any founder that got a refund back before Open Beta started. You fail at customer service.

I understand the economy quite well as I have written many a lengthy post in Closed Beta (after the last patch before Open Beta) and now into Open Beta. *Valore and some other founders can attest to that even when they disagreed with me* I have posted up the numbers for the costs of repairs and rearms then figured out the amount of hours to play to earn a subsequent variant to partake in the mech lab and customized mech experience. The result of all the research I've done is the undisputable fact is that a trial mech earns more money than a custom mech and mech ownership for a free player is NOT an attractive option. I also presented the facts that the current system removes the incentive to monetize the game which means that PGI makes less money because a free player, brutalized by the economic system, will not spend money much less stick around for the long term.

What have you brought to this discussion so far? Not a darn thing.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 14 November 2012 - 03:29 AM.

[ForceUser]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

How does playing in a team change the economics of the game? It doesn't. Therefore, your suggestion isn't worth anything to a free player being punched in the face repeatedly for playing the game, pugging or in a premade.

It's pretty staright forward, you are runnig the SINGLE most expensive mech currently in the game. I checked, there is no mech (except maybe an artemis LRMS atlas DDC with FF, ENDO, XL, DHS and 20 tons of ammo) that costs mosre to run. You are at the extremes and thus statistically speaking, not the average user

[Tarman]

Noth, on 14 November 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

This is perhaps the worst argument on the board... perhaps only out done by the "But in TT" argument.

Being a team game does not mean you should be forced to join a premade. The most successful team games have ample support for solo queuing. In fact the largest player base of team games queue or play solo.

If we can drag STO out again as backup, when I played I was part of a very successful fleet, led by one of the most dangerous PvP dudes in the entire game. Lots of fun to be had with those guys and being on the team was great. That said, before I was recruited, I just farted around in space on my own because the game let me, and it was still a lot of fun. I had fun in my fleet too, but not because my solo experience was so crap that ONLY signing on would let me have any fun.

[o0Marduk0o]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

What have you brought to this discussion so far? Not a darn thing.

I wrote what a free player can do to earn money with a custom mech. You just ignore all of this.

[ForceUser]

Tarman, on 14 November 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

If we can drag STO out again as backup, when I played I was part of a very successful fleet, led by one of the most dangerous PvP dudes in the entire game. Lots of fun to be had with those guys and being on the team was great. That said, before I was recruited, I just farted around in space on my own because the game let me, and it was still a lot of fun. I had fun in my fleet too, but not because my solo experience was so crap that ONLY signing on would let me have any fun.

Having played STO the comparison is a bit flawed. There are no single player material in MWO. That's 90% of what 'farting around in space' consists of in STO.

[Goit]

I'm a pug and costs me about 20k a match repairs thanks to free ammo/repairs. Just never repair your XL engine simple. Matches last about 6-8 minutes its not hard to save pennies

[James The Fox Dixon]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

It's pretty staright forward, you are runnig the SINGLE most expensive mech currently in the game. I checked, there is no mech (except maybe an artemis LRMS atlas DDC with FF, ENDO, XL, DHS and 20 tons of ammo) that costs mosre to run. You are at the extremes and thus statistically speaking, not the average user

Again this does nothing to address the issues of the economy and paints the blame on the player. I have a customer service secret for you...



Never make the customer feel like they're getting screwed and that it is their fault because you will lose in the long run.

Now how about you actually tackle the meat of what I've said in this thread about how the TT is balanced around what you bring into the field on page 5?

For reference:


Depends upon the following contract stipulations for economics that pertain to MW:O as it currently stands: Payment Multiplier, Overhead, Salvage, and Support.

Equipment Rating grants the following bonuses: Payment Multiplier, Overhead, Salvage, and Support. The equipment rating goes from F (the worst level) up to A* (the best level). The higher the level, the more money you make.

Rating/Payment Multiplier/Overhead/Salvage/Support
A*-3.5/+5%/+5%/+5%
A-3.0/5%/0/5%/0
B-2.7/0/0/0
C-2.4/0/0/0
D-2.1/-5%/0/0
F-1.5/-5%/0/0

Payment Multiplier multiplies the base amount of the contract that ranges from 0.8 to above 5.0. Without mission types and employers the only thing in MW:O is equipment rating. As you can see that a top of the line mech with all of the upgrades will make more money in a match than a non-upgraded mech. The mission has a base payout that is multiplied by the Payment Multiplier.

Overhead is how much it costs to maintain your Mech in between matches. It covers expenses that aren't compensated by the contract i.e. upgrades.

Salvage is how much you can recover and claim as your own. This is a percentage beginning at 0% all the way up to 100%.

Support is split into two categories of straight support and battle loss compensation. Straight support is for the payment of salaries of your entire staff while battle loss compensation is the amount that is paid to you for damages incurred in combat. In MW:O, only battle loss compensation is important.

Now this system also encompasses pilot skill levels etc... It means that bringing out the big bad Atlas or ammo dependent build makes enough to cover its costs through all of the multipliers. This system makes MW:O's system look like a feel good welfare program for free players that actually punches them in the face for playing the game in an owned mech.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 14 November 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[Sarevos]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

It's pretty staright forward, you are runnig the SINGLE most expensive mech currently in the game. I checked, there is no mech (except maybe an artemis LRMS atlas DDC with FF, ENDO, XL, DHS and 20 tons of ammo) that costs mosre to run. You are at the extremes and thus statistically speaking, not the average user

with 50% additional cbills? how can you provide a proper study? A cat a1 artemis xl srms costs money to run in a win if you take a shot to the ammo bins lol repairs exceed the max amount you can get free around 150k unless you leg every opponent for maximum salvage bonus

[Vassago Rain]

Sarevos, on 14 November 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

how many people use the forums of a playerbase? 5-10% thats not alot "mate" and why would you waste more time on something that isnt immediately entertaining?

About 500 people are regulars, out of at least 40,000 registered users.
We got somewhere around 1400 voting in the 'delay open beta'-thread.

[ForceUser]

Running an A1 with every single upgrade currently available is like banging your head against the wall and complaining that it hurts.

[Sarevos]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

Running an A1 with every single upgrade currently available is like banging your head against the wall and complaining that it hurts.

thats only 2 i dont see the other 3

[ForceUser]

Sarevos, on 14 November 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

with 50% additional cbills? how can you provide a proper study? A cat a1 artemis xl srms costs money to run in a win if you take a shot to the ammo bins lol repairs exceed the max amount you can get free around 150k unless you leg every opponent for maximum salvage bonus

What does me being a founder have to do with the A1 being expensive as all get out to repair when you do badly in a match?

[The Herrick]

Valore, on 13 November 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

My opinion is that if you run a high maintenence mech, you should be able to afford to run it without premium, and even turn a slight profit, as long as you win without completely wrecking your mech.

However, if you're running a mech with high level gear, and you lose, or come back with your mech having the crap shot out of it, you should lose money, or just about break even.

As for how much, not an excessive amount, but enough to tell you that you're not doing it right.

Except this is a team game and even the most tricked out mech available cannot solo 8 other mechs. Why should people be punished if their teamates are unable to pull their weight, more so if you are in a short range brawler setup and inherently taking a bigger risk by committing to fights?

Not to mention if you make lasers the only financially viable weapon in the game that is going to make matches very, very boring for everyone involved.