3696 replies to this topic

[Rejarial Galatan]

id love to know that as well, because it sure as hell cant be legal what ever it is...

[Galantdramon]

*sigh* Why have a 3rd person view?

What is the purpose?

"I keep crashing into stuff, 'cause I keep losing track of the exact placement of my feet vs torso and dieing, a 3rd person view would fix that."

Not "I want to use it to see behind me so I can avoid sneaky mechs". Not "I want to use it to spot and such over/around obstacles."

That is the main reason people scream for 3rd person view...fine, here's a fix.

Take a random screen in the cockpit, or put something on their hud, and give them a "driving cam" effect, showing them (if they bother to look) where they're going.

"Oh, but the radar does that."

No, it doesn't...the detail is too vague to actually -steer- with that unless you know the map and have tons of practice and stuff...but a "going this way" window would help as they could see "from the corner of their eye" if they were slamming into something.

This is probably not possible, for the same reason a "rear view cam" like modern vehicles can get, to allow them to -see- where they are going while backing up, but a -radar- image, not a full resolution video, but a rough 3D short range radar effect, would help with that.

Do I want a full 3rd person, PoV scrolling, swivel cam, like in a lot of current games? Not really, it kinda defeats a lot of the flavor of MWO. Would I like a "short range radar to at least let me bloody well know something is behind me? Heck yes.

Personally, as many times as I've gotten fragged because I got stuck on some minor obstacle because I was just slightly off on my guess, I do NOT want a real, true, full 3rd person view in MWO.

That said, I would love a very short range radar so I can see that silly mech behind me w/o needing to always be in the middle of a group of allies...'cause you know, sometimes, you're the guy in the back, or separated, etc, and only forward facing radar is super annoying.

[Saint Rigid]

You know how in racing games when you turn around there is a large announcement across the screen that reads "WRONG WAY"... ?

Couldn't you just put in a warning alerting players to something along the lines of "PATH OBSTRUCTED, CHANGE COURSE"? Perhaps fix the problem of mechs "walking in place" (which I am hopefully will happen when collisions are re-implemented). I feel like if the speed of your mech is 0kph, and it isn't turning, then maybe it's legs should just hold still... Heck, you could have the legs auto-adjust to turn until you began forward motion again. Lastly, how about an indicator on the HUD that tells you when you have reached maximum torso twist... perhaps with an arrow?

[All Nine]

Despite not typically being this person, I would like to add my voice to the multitude that plan on demanding refunds if a feature like this goes live. I paid $60 for my founder's package with the promise that the game would be first-person only.

[James Warren]

I think it would be nice to have third person or a detached camera during the 'waiting for player' part of a round, just to make it easier to see what your team consists of. Of course you wouldn't be able to see enemies and it wouldn't give you any advantage since you can't move anyway at that stage.

I'd also like it for spectator mode, just to give us more options and make spectating more interesting - although perhaps this should also mean that dead players are unable to talk to surviving players as they currently do (so that they aren't providing information they shouldn't know).

I'll have to agree with the majority however, that a third person view would be an inappropriate feature for a game like MWO. Unless the third person view was attached to a drone or camera stalk or something along those lines, so that it was an actual tactical option with drawbacks such as tonnage, enlarged radar signature, etc. I'm not sure if such a thing exists in battletech canon anyway.

[Windies]

Ghogiel, on 15 November 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

I get that you, me, and most of the people on the forums don't like it, and probably can't imagine why it would improve people wanting to pay/play, but what are the devs smoking to make them think it would is what I want to know?

Rejarial Galatan, on 15 November 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

id love to know that as well, because it sure as hell cant be legal what ever it is...

It's as simple as what they have now is not working. They aren't raking in the cash like they thought they would be and they don't know what to do now. So they grasp at straws. I honestly don't think they ever had a concrete plan to follow. I think they just had a lot of idea's linked together through spider webs and failed at connecting them in a meaningful way.

The thing is that they are ignoring their community on the issue's that are wrong with the game, and spiting the community through things like this that they said they would never implement or only in very specific circumstances.

If they fixed the trial mechs or simply just gave you a starter mech, introduced some tutorials that were streamlined into the game not just video's on youtube, fixed the economy to be easier on newer players, introduced customization of mechs and build theorycrafting in an easy to understand way, fixed the game breaking bugs like memory leaks and CTD issue's and fixed the netcode the game would be at least somewhat playable then.

It still wouldn't fix core design issue's with the game like maps having way too much cover that create's paths through terrain, Maps being so small you can base cap in under a minute, Heat system that promotes use of low heat highly spammable weapons versus high heat harder hitting but lower spammability weapons, Hardpoint system that limits viability of mech variants, Grinding system that is uninteresting and coupled with most of the points above makes the game a drag to play.

So they decide to implement 3rd person view and pretend like it's a whole new game and the terrible new user experience is now fixed instead of fixing the core issue's that are wrong. That sounds like the PGI I knew all through the beta. Ignore it and throw some flashy new cool **** at the playerbase and hope they forget it.



Forgot to add nerfing the shiny **** into oblivion without really trying to balance/unbalance it for testing purposes.

Edited by Windies, 15 November 2012 - 10:32 PM.

[shamandgg]

3rd person views, external camera views, only for replaying recorded matches or instant replays.
Unless you split the servers, ones allowing external camera views (for forever-COD-n00bs)
and hardcore ones with cockpit views locked for true MW pilots.
XP should be gained slower for people who play on 3rd person view servers.
Cons: You will split community this way, causing servers to be less populated.

True solution:
Create in-game single player or coop-duo-training with increasing level of difficult with challenges for leg+torso fun. Something like a shooting range with targets on cartboards or derelict tanks. Training that is worth replaying at any level of player experience, gives XP boost to new comming players and some free equipment for completing basic set of trials, and gives them enough skill to un-learn FPS gaming and learn sim-mech playstyle from cockpit and its controlls. Give us a keybind: center legs to torso.

Edited by shamandgg, 15 November 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[ebea51]

What i understand from the podcast regarding 3rd person camera is:

New people will have BEGINNER/PRACTICE servers which will ALLOW for 3rd person cameras which they can play to wrap their heads around independant leg/torso movement and then MOVE to the ACTALL servers where they will be locked to 1st person.

THAT is actally a GOOD idea - because it helps newbies to learn to pilot their mech and when they are used to it and ready to join the ranks, they can move on their own accord to dedicated 1st person matches.

Perhaps the difference will be that there are less XP and CBill rewards on BEGINNER/PRACTICE servers so when newbies feel like they are good enough they can move into 1st person servers will full match rewards.

I would subscribe to that.
Not sure about 3rd person observer - but as long as you can change from 1st person observer to 3rd person observer... i GUESS that would be ok...

[Leadhed]

The Herrick, on 14 November 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

I don't mind 3rd person for spectator mode but whenever you are in control of your mech it should be in 1st person. Yes, even when you fall over in collisions with other mechs (if they ever add it back in). I don't wanna see my Jenner faceplant the ground, I want to be in the mech watching my pilot brace himself during the fall, get shaken about in the impact and then fumble with the controls in a blind panic as he struggles to get the mech back on it's feet.

WHERES MUH IMMERSUNS?

Absolutely agree, 3rd person (if added at all) should only be in spectator mode.

[JebusGeist]

91.52% consisting of 2579 votes for NO. Nuff said?

[Goblin08th]

3rd person in observer mode has major issues, lock out team communication through typing? seems like a fix. But, I run vent with my friends, whats to stop me from stripping down a light mech charging in to get killed then 3pv off my buddy and voip to give him valuable intell on whats around the corner or over the hill? "NOTHING" 3rd person should only be in replays and not in combat situations.

[Volk]

I am now for the first time really concerned over where MWO is going.

Listening to the podcast I believe the train of thought behind implementing 3rd Person was/is
( A ): Get more players into the game.

( B ): Help new players who are having trouble with piloting his/her mech.

Both of these points are good and should be supported. The only question now is how. Many have posted it and I totally agree with it. The best way to address point ( B ) is to create a tutorial mission. WoT got mentioned allot in the podcast for its 3rd person view, but no mention was made of it also having a tutorial for new players to teach the basics and a online practise mode/training room that can be of great use in MWO aswell.

Another decent idea posted somewhere is to remove the HUD when in 3rd person view. While this can still be exploited for recon purposes it does limit the use of 3rd person view as a edge when doing the actuall fighting. This would probably also be a good thing for people wanting to take screenshots.

Another idea was to have separate matchmaking for 3rd and 1st person players... the checkbox. While I'm sceptical about this I feel like this would be the only way of making 3rd person work. You will however run the risk of damaging your playerbase by splitting them in two. Keep in mind aswell that when hopefully later we get regional servers the playerbase will again be split if no creative way for CW is inplace.

My 2c on the matter

tl;dr
No to 3rd Person, I agree a tutorial mission/mode would be best. And beware of moving away from mechwarrior core values and of splitting the community.

Edited by Volk, 15 November 2012 - 11:06 PM.

[StandingCow]

Yea, a training mode/server for new players would be a much better idea than to implement 3rd person to the majority of players, as that keeps both sides happy.

To me, Russ wasn't too clear in how they were thinking of implementing 3rd person, which in turn caused this forum explosion which could have been easily avoided had they been clear in how they wanted to put it in. But if they are going to try and divide the playerbase by 1st person mode only and mixed 1st and 3rd person... dividing your playerbase isn't a good thing. I find that to be a really lazy way to try and solve an issue that really doesn't exist as a huge issue or would be easily solved in much better ways.

[King Curt]

The only way I could ever possibly accept a 3rd-person view in a simulator is if it's a launched robot probe module that costs a bundle to earn and buy, can be destroyed and has to be activated. Otherwise, no. Plain no. And I've made it very clear how big a No this is. it's a deal breaker for me.

I am sorry if new players can't get it. It took me a few games to get it right and I still lose track in serious furballs. At times. But I always remember the "center torso" button is your friend. If you're confused hit it. May not be the best alignment at the time but you get your bearings fast. Learning to stop and center is an old mech pilot's basic training.

To change the game's entire basis, a mech simulation, is not what I envisioned or particularly am looking for in my mech game desires. I want the cockpit feel that I remember so well from the Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries days. I have plenty of 3rd person games I like playing, one of which is a direct competitor. If MW:O goes 3rd person, I will be a sad legendary founder.

I am truly concerned. No smilies concerned.

EDIT: this is a repost. I will add that tutorials would solve this whole issue, or perhaps a clearer indicator for the minimap feet/torso direction. But I am firmly opposed to any 3rd person implementation -- I don't even care for it upon death.

Edited by King Curt, 15 November 2012 - 11:35 PM.

[Stephen Pershaw]

There is little that I can say that has not already been said, but I have said it before and will say it again, I paid a great deal of money to support this project, I bought it so that I can spend ridiculous amounts of money for the authenticity, I will hopefully spend ridiculous amounts of money on a joystick JUST for this game with a screen that will ONLY work for this game, so that I can have that feel of authenticity. Heck, if i could get away with it I would build a full pod, with all three monitors and actuall switches for things like hatches, of course i can't my wife would kill me. But Simply put if third person is implemented, I will play much less, spend much less and defiantly be again disappointed in the development of a game that took one of my passions and squashed it into a meaningless pile of fecal matter... (re: STO and several SW games)

to sum it up, 3rd Person=LESS MONEY!

[Torarild]

Negative.
Not what I signed up for.

Lots of good reasons given already, but the key ones for me are:
1. Resources can be used a lot more sensible than implementing this.
2. Training new players need completely different things than a 3rd person view point, like a tutorial and mouseover info.
3. Seeing the mech from behind negates a lot of light mech potential in fights, especialy with lasers, as one can see the direction of shots, and be massively aware of being attacked from behind.

What could be cool is to see your mech being prepared for combat as the game loads and waits for people to join, etc, so you see the skin and the size and get the feel of it more.
Also, when more of the game is in place, work on implementing a replay function. This could allow 3rd person view and free cam, overview from a satelite view or any other view that sounds interesting.

-TorArild

[B R O T H E R M A D B R O]

NO> i am sorry newbies but I will not support the idea of this child tantrum.

[SergalBait]

I'll make this simple.

If you implement third person view, I am demanding a full refund of my 120 dollar founders, for being sold a product under false pretenses.

I was promised a first person mechwarrior.

Not a third person hold your hand, no skill mechassault console game

[Pheydra Sagan]

Third person view isn't a good idea for every reason that everybody has given in the last 87 pages of posts. It would take something away from the game for more than the reasons given as well.

I felt a bit of accomplishment once I got my mech piloting skills down. I really think that we do need a place for new pilots to get a grip on how to do that though. A training ground would be nice. I looked at the stickies when I first joined the beta and got the key mapping down to where I liked it before I started the game but didn't realize how things worked till I was in a match and running into walls and such. Theoretical knowledge is nothing compared to actually doing something. Third person view isn't the answer to new pilots having issue with piloting. Having a place to learn to pilot would be a better answer I think.

[Zalacious]

No. Please no. But if you are going to implement it, make it a trial mech only thing or something extremely limited in FOV.