3696 replies to this topic

[DeathofSelf]

TruePoindexter, on 14 November 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

I did not say that it was too difficult to understand - I said it was complex and not necessarily intuitive.

You did though condone alienation and exclusion. Here's what you said: "...what makes me uncomfortable is the apparent lack of effort and problem solving on your and your friends...If you want a thoughtless point and shoot game, this is not for you." It's pretty clear to me that your view is that if not everyone understands the game like we do they shouldn't be allowed to play.

The thing I don't get is that it will still be a simulator just with the camera moved in some cases. It already does this when you get knocked down which is decidedly un-simulator so how is this a problem? Aegis Kleais makes a great point about how this can be implemented without letting you see around corners.

Um... No, I did not condone alienation or exclusion. I was saying this game is not for everyone, just like hello kitty is not for me. Do you honestly think everything needs to be available and likable by everyone on the planet? That is unrealistic, sorry.

With the forum stickies and the tutorial videos, it shouldn't be that hard to understand. That being said, I absolutely think there should be an in game tutorial.

I read his post, and there are several holes in it, outlined by "Protection" to which you responded with some fancy sidestepping and oversimplification.

As to the camera going 3rd person when being knocked down. I don;t want that either, there has already been several discussions on it. That is more of an annoyance than an unfair advantage.

[Lord Cochrane]

So you guys in Canada has the pitchfork and flaming brand wielding mob turned up at PGI offices yet?

[Kroxloq]

Please no 3rd person view.

Even when collisions where implemented going to 3rd person while your 'Mech stood back up was immersion destroying and the transition jarring.

Please no 3rd person view!

[Bashars]

I say NO.......

If people are have trouble getting the torso twist down then have some kinda of training for it.

When Tribes:Ascend came out people had a hard time skii and jumping. Then added a training area with jumps and arrows helping you figure it out. They could have some kinda server set with things to practice with.

[Miekael]

Totally against 3rd person, and not a dime to them ever again if they implement it.

[Orbit Rain]

I'll be leaving this game if I have to fight people who play in third person.

[Draco Harkins]

No 3rd person view. The constructive criticism is simple, this is a MECH SIMULATOR not World of Robots or League of Robots, keep to the original ideia and stop going for the casual players that will leave this game for the newest and shinest game that comes next (AKA jumpers), and ruining the game for the true hardcore fans what will (will we if this continues?) put money. I've said this before already 10 times and PGI just wont listen. You destroy the base core of the game this game dies. Period, FACT.

Not everyone has the ability to become a mechwarrior, wedidnt say this on the old games for nothing, this is just not for everyone, just like tanks/infantry/fighter simulators. The sooner PGI comes to terms with that the sooner we can start to make this game AMAZING!

You want to help the new players? Give them a tutorial mission like MW4 had againts static targets or something. If they want real life combat and want to master it on the first run, they are mistaken and thats not the mentality you should be catering. True mechwarriors take their time, learn, adapt, overcome.

Edited by Draco Harkins, 14 November 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[TostitoBandito]

Third person view is a terrible idea for this game, and would ruin it from a strategic and competitive standpoint. Basically the entire group I play with (close to 100 people) are adamantly opposed to this, and these are your most active players. Here are some reasons.

• It removes a large portion of the strategy from the game since you would be able to peek over/around terrain without needing line of sight.
  
• Similarly, you would be able to easliy look behind your mech without turning around. Sensors in MWO are designed so they don't even detect targets which are behind you, so this makes no sense at all. Again, ruins all strategy.
  
• Despite the justifaction that "new" players say they want this, it will make their experience far worse. Pop-tarting will be prevalent (popping up from behind cover and shooting someone you can't even see in first person). It will make the learning curve even worse with these abusive tactics courtesy of third person view.
  
• None of the experienced and skilled players will use it unless forced to. The only players queuing for third person matches will be newbies and griefers who are abusing line of sight in third person.

Please do not do this PGI. It will lose you the core of your player and profit base.

Edit:

Also, please see this poll: http://mwomercs.com/...son-its-coming/
Large sample size with well over 90% of players opposing this.

Edited by TostitoBandito, 14 November 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[Moiety]

I posted this in a different thread, reposting here since this is the official thread. I think this would be a better use of dev time.

"If the problem is actually that people are having trouble getting used to the controls, instead of 3rd person view, PGI could create a very limited practice room. Give it a basic carnival style shooting gallery to teach people how to lead targets, some blank mech hulks at different distances on a shooting range so they could practice shot placement, etc.

No 3rd person. "

[Zeus X]

• 
  
• Yes (55 votes [4.35%] - View)
  
• No (1147 votes [90.82%] - View)
  
• No opinion (10 votes [0.79%] - View)
  
• Im indiferent (51 votes [4.04%] - View)

[Dakkath]

Orbit Rain, on 14 November 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

I'll be leaving this game if I have to fight people who play in third person.

Listen to the podcast again. They aren't going to mix modes.

[pistolero]

changing this feature makes PGI unreliable
it plain and simply makes everything you announce, promise or talk about meaningless
why should i believe you anymore if you have proven to change your mind as you like ?
.... i am not interested to give my money to an unreliable business partner


this game was announced to have no 3rd person view
for me this was and still is a major selling point of this game
under this premise i, and many others, invested money into the game

would i have not invested my cash for a mech game with 3rd person ?
i think i still would have payed ... but probally less

changing this feature will make it a lot easier for me to leave and just try another game

[Zeus X]

Dakkath, on 14 November 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Listen to the podcast again. They aren't going to mix modes.

The 3rd person mode does not need to be implemented in the first place.

pistolero, on 14 November 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

changing this feature makes PGI unreliable
it plain and simply makes everything you announce, promise or talk about meaningless
why should i believe you anymore if you have proven to change your mind as you like ?
.... i am not interested to give my money to an unreliable business partner


this game was announced to have no 3rd person view
for me this was and still is a major selling point of this game
under this premise i, and many others, invested money into the game

would i have not invested my cash for a mech game with 3rd person ?
i think i still would have payed ... but probally less

changing this feature will make it a lot easier for me to leave and just try another game

I have to agree with this.

[Dagger6T6]

Dagger6T6 does not like 3rd person

Dagger6T6 has grown weary of all the 3rd person threads

Dagger6t6 is tired, Dagger6T6 is going to log off and go take a nap now.

[gregsolidus]

I think this is just to humor us. They knew the answer already and are probably going to do it anyway.

[Dr Killinger]

Here is my constructive feedback- I hope it is read.

Now, the reason put forward for third person in the podcast was that new players struggled to understand the concept of torso twisting. If you see posts on the forum that are pro-3rd person, not one of them state that it's because they have trouble with the orientation of their mech; most of them want it just because they like it. I feel this alone invalidates the idea based on the fact that it doesn't remedy the problem put forward, but I'd like to look at 3rd person outside of this as well.

I feel that MWO has been built as a simulator, and that a lot of effort has been put into the cockpit view. The immersion is undeniable, and it seems ok to think that someone can forgo that if they so desire, however I forsee multiple problems with this:

• 3rd person will most likely be an advantage. Many have stated that it will let people see over hills and around corners, and possibly negate cockpit shake from certain weapons. Even if these are controlled, I feel they cannot be totally avoided. This leads on to point 2:
  
• If it's an advantage to use 3rd person, it will force everyone out of their cockpits. Including those who want to stay in the immersive environment that PGI has built. This is undesirable, and leads to point 3:
  
• It will devalue certain cosmetic items. Bobbleheads, the "hanging" items talked about, etc, are all in the cockpit, and will be useless if we all use 3rd person view. This not only removes a nice feature that many of us are looking forward to or already enjoying, but will impact on PGIs revenue. Now, I realise that it will, however, vastly improve the camo feature, because people will actually be able to see their mechs, but I feel this can be done in a better manner.

Now, like I said, people just want to see their mechs. I want to stay in my cockpit, but it would be nice to see my mech in the round every now and then! I propose the following:

• A full 3D turnaround function within the mechlab. I feel this will be the easiest to produce and have a decent effect.
  
• A photo mode, similar to Gran Turismo 5, and perhaps a feature where a group can pose and photograph their mechs together (Way more difficult, I know)
  
• Some way to export a wallpaper of your mech.
  
• 3rd person spectating. Again, not too much work for huge gain, even though it won't be of your own mech.
  
• A replay function of some kind, where 3rd person is unlocked.
  
• Perhaps a 3rd person replay upon player death, and on the last kill of the match, both from the mech dealing the killing blow, and the last enemy mech's perspective respectively.

These sort of ideas will sate peoples thirst to see their mech, but I say again, the original issue put forward is that new players can't grasp torso twisting. I feel this problem will be easily sorted out with a proper training mission of some kind. A training mission with a friendly mech radioing in and demonstrating and talking you through maneuvers will do the job perfectly.I think the way Mechwarrior 4 did it would work well. Most people won't watch the Youtube videos, so those will only go so far.

So, I've outlined my views on how 3rd person will impact the game, how it relates to the presented problem, and alternative ways to solve said problem. I hope it helps!

[von Pilsner]

PropagandaWar, on 14 November 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

You forgot wasting our money. FPS must stand for 3rd person shooter these days.

They had better change their 'about' page....

Quote

How Does Gameplay Work?

MechWarrior Online puts MechWarriors into a first-person, team-based, tactical battlefield where the victors swim in the spoils of war and are rewarded with the almighty C-Bill (in-game currency).

[Parnage Winters]

Betrayal! BETRAYAL!

You get me all excited, get me interested, GET ME TO DEFEND YOU, and you want to pull this ****? With one mouth spouting we want to be more then a twitch fps shooter, the other wanting to introduce dumb down mechanics.

Third person view is coming? Then I'll leave.

How about taking that **** poor quick fix to a problem and actually introduce a training mode for new players. This isn't rocket surgery, this should be obvious. Do you guys need a common sense guy to let you know how to not just screw your own base with every step? I want to play a Mechwarrior game, NOT A 3rd person shooter with bot skins.

If you make the game fun people will play it, you've got the fun game part, you can do this without turning it into mech assault. You know how to improve it? A ******** TRAINING MODE.

You spit on the very people who love you. Betrayal I call ******** betrayal.

Also shame on NGNG for softballing that topic. You guys of all people should of handled that with more concern.

Edited by Parnage, 14 November 2012 - 03:03 PM.

[FrostPaw]

For me the problem with 3rd person is spatial awareness, from outside the mech I can see directly behind or to the side or over a ridge or around corners in safety and find it far easier to pilot, avoid obstacles and check enemy mech facing, these are things I cannot tell from within the cockpit without making the effort to rotate and tilt my mech torso or make my mech vulnerable to discover. It would give players an advantage that a mech pilot would simply not have, it would become necessary to be competitive and force players who want to remain inside the cockpit into a disadvantage.

It also detracts from making you feel like the mech pilot, you're supposed to be in the mech, the cockpit view is unique to every mech design and with it comes each mechs unique view area. If I view in third person I no longer feel like the mech pilot, I now feel like the mech. It makes it seem more like a radio control robot.

Edited by FrostPaw, 14 November 2012 - 02:47 PM.

[Dagger6T6]

Weebz, on 14 November 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

But ... how will they sell people bobbleheads if we're all using 3rd person ?

Dagger6T6 loves bobbleheads.

Dagger6T6 does not like 3rd person

Dagger6T6 votes "no" for 3rd person