3696 replies to this topic

[Worker]

I don't really think 3rd person for learning is valuable. People get the hang of it.

I would like to see my mech in the 3rd person sometimes. Not for peeking around corners, not for checking my six. Sometimes you survive a fight and your like, wow I bet I look messed up right now! But you can't see it . So I thought, maybe at the end of round score screen it would show your mech in whatever state it is in. That might be kind of funny if you are a scrap heap somewhere. Or if you're missing your RA, RT, RL and smoking up a storm. Or even if you are absolutely pristine.

Either that or, you know in some games how if you check your inventory it shows your character? This might be cool with detailed info like crits and individual item damage. It could even be on a blank background so you can't get any tactical info that your mech wouldn't already provide. I just really want to see my mech. Especially if I'm gonna be buying awesome paint jobs. I'd like to enjoy those MCs I spend as much as the people who I'm shooting at.

Thanks for the awesome game and keep up the good work!

[Cnox]

Gihzmo, on 16 November 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

If you want 3rd person, fine making a training system, but do not allow people to use 3rd person to build their resources up and have an easy-mode advancement.

// snip

But to allow 3rd person in regular matches and community warfare.... NO!! I think the majority of the community wants to keep it the way it is. Please do not pander so deeply to people who constantly whine.

Why would 3rd person be 'easy mode' if you're unable to zoom? or be able to really look down the sight of your gun and use the mouse to finetune your targeting. 3rd person view would actually be a disadvantage when you're trying to shoot (i think a very important aspect of the game).

They can easily balance the advantages and disadvantages of the different points of view so that one isn't better than the other in all circumstances.

It would be MORE work to have all these different 'allow/disallow' logic and match types and have them write whole tutorials that only allows 3pv than if you guys just LET THEM MAKE THE GAME THEY WANT TO MAKE and WITHININ 3 LINES OF CODE MOVE THE CAMERA POSITION FROM INSIDE THE COCKPIT TO BEHIND THE HEAD OF THE MECH WHEN THEY PRESS A KEY.

You guys ***** so much about wasted effort, you guys are making this situation harder than it needs to be. Just accept it and move on to the REAL game features that you want (ECM, and the like).

[Gimpy Warpig]

AvatarofWhat, on 16 November 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Dividing the community is a great idea... not! get a clue! They promised us a 1st person only sim and 91.5% of the community insists they stick to that. Only 4.5% even care to have 3rd person implemented. Which demographic should PGI cater to?

So I introduce my friend to MWO and instead of spending a few hours learning to play 1st person and getting used to it, because they have no tutorial he starts playing 3rd person because it's easier to figure out where the legs are pointing versus the torso. Now me and my friend can't play together... how the hell does that make any sense?

Do i really need to spell this out dude? The point is, you got your friend playing - 1pv, 3pv, who cares?!???! They ARE PLAYING. And not only that, but they can switch between modes after (in true friend fashion) you've busted his chops enough to get him to try it in 1pv with you! And parish the thought, maybe you might even want to try it out in 3pv every blue moon.

I actually started playing this game on tabletop. BT and MW. Then when I had a PC decent enough to handle it, I played MW3 (single player mode) and jumped into online play with MW4:Veng and have been truly hooked since.

Like your fictitious friend in your example, I DID start playing in 3pv mode (because thats what the leagues mostly played), but found a few smaller leagues that specialized in 1pv only and played those too! At the time when i found out there actually WERE leagues with just 1pv, I was surprised people would intentionally hamper themselves - but after playing it a bit I realized it is in fact a very enjoyable gamestyle, with different approaches to being successful. In the end though - why the heck do you think YOUR style (the 1pv'er) is the only way to play and be a "real mechwarrior/fan"? I think there needs to be a whole lot of growing up done by some people. I blame the government - too many handouts and free rides, people think they can tell everyone else what to do and what to think.

[Black Alexidor]

I have a feeling it's to appease complaints about not being able to see your skins, as sad as that is, and, therefore, it's a way to encourage spending money, either CB or MC, on aesthetics.

After playing years of playing TF2, which is full of in game items you never see unless you taunt or otherwise, I feel that this is going to be a horrible implementation, both economically and from a gameplay standpoint. Tf2 has been wildly successful and proves you dont need to have 3rd person to encourage further spending on items which cannot be seen in game.

Please do not put 3rd person into this game. The simulation feeling is what makes this game.

Edited by Black Alexidor, 16 November 2012 - 01:03 PM.

[Gimpy Warpig]

EvilCow, on 16 November 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

And where is now this "vast majority". A volatile kind of players unlikely to generate a significant revenue stream.

LMAO - you mean Volatile like threaten to ragequitomghax if PGI added a functionality they didn't like? That kind of volatile?

Yeah, we wouldnt want that kind of player.

[Xantha]

Cnox, on 16 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

And you missed my point about the attitude here: this 'absolutely not or else I'm never playing this game again' attitude is absolutely TOXIC to this game.

So your calling 2700+ people TOXIC and fickle? I along with many others shelled out $120 for a 1st person mechwarrior game. If I had wanted a 3rd person game, I'd be playing Torchlight 2, Diablo 3, Assassins Creed 3, or some other 3rd person game. If I wanted an arcade feel, I'd be playing Hawken.

This game, as we were told by developers was to be built 100% 1st person:
http://mwomercs.com/...is-when-needed/

But despite the fact that less than 200 are arguing for 3rd person, you want us to conform to your ideal for a mech based game when almost 3,000 want a 1st person experience.

You would rather us be shut out in an attempt to lure those who have already left or are already playing other games?

Don't bite the hand that feeds you. To the tune of over $5,000,000 already I might add.

[AvatarofWhat]

Cnox, on 16 November 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Why would 3rd person be 'easy mode' if you're unable to zoom? or be able to really look down the sight of your gun and use the mouse to finetune your targeting. 3rd person view would actually be a disadvantage when you're trying to shoot (i think a very important aspect of the game).

They can easily balance the advantages and disadvantages of the different points of view so that one isn't better than the other in all circumstances.

It would be MORE work to have all these different 'allow/disallow' logic and match types and have them write whole tutorials that only allows 3pv than if you guys just LET THEM MAKE THE GAME THEY WANT TO MAKE and WITHININ 3 LINES OF CODE MOVE THE CAMERA POSITION FROM INSIDE THE COCKPIT TO BEHIND THE HEAD OF THE MECH WHEN THEY PRESS A KEY.

You guys ***** so much about wasted effort, you guys are making this situation harder than it needs to be. Just accept it and move on to the REAL game features that you want (ECM, and the like).

How about instead of spending time trying to implement a 3rd person mode that grants absolutely no advantage gameplay-wise for only 4% of the player base they instead spend that time fixing the netcode, fixing memory leaks, fixing missiles flying through buildings, adding a real marketplace so they can make money, adding more mechs, adding more maps, balancing weapons, or any of hundreds of other issues that plague this game. Don't kid yourself, if they add 3rd person they are not going to do anything about it giving others advantages, they are ignoring one of their "pillars" so that they can try to attract a quick and easy buck, only it's only gonna **** off more people then it pleases.

[Cnox]

Black Alexidor, on 16 November 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Please do not put 3rd person into this game. The simulation feeling is what makes this game.

No one's forcing you. If you don't want to use it, don't. If you don't want it because it would attract 'the wrong sort of player' to the game, please **** your high horse and let people play the way they want to play.

[Faux Deus]

I would think it would be hard to balance and easier solutions have been suggested, even from people who have had torso twist issues amongst my friends they haven't said i wish there was third person more I wish there was a better indicator of where my legs were pointed. or a secondary camera that swaps out for the map screen or something.

[Kauhava]

DraigUK, on 16 November 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Anything to split the player base in its infancy is bad. No.

Not just that, but the playerbase will never be all that high, and certainly never high enough to justify splitting it up on this.

[AvatarofWhat]

Gimpy Warpig, on 16 November 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

In the end though - why the heck do you think YOUR style (the 1pv'er) is the only way to play and be a "real mechwarrior/fan"?

Hmm, let me think? Maybe because that's they game they promised? no... oh I know! It's because 91.5% of the current player base absolutely does not want 3rd person added in!

You clearly need things spelled out for you, and everything you said about freerides applies more to you and the 4% you represent then the 91% I represent.

[QuantumButler]

Third person view in MWO is one of the worst ideas from the devs in a long history of bad ideas.

[Cnox]

Stormfury, on 16 November 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

This game, as we were told by developers was to be built 100% 1st person:
http://mwomercs.com/...is-when-needed/

I read the link, and they said 1st person would be there out of the gate. Well, guess what, they're out of the gate, and off to the races. They never said they would not have 3rd person, or that this game would be 100% first person. But you can read plain English and put words into their mouths if that's what turns your crank. For the rest of us, this entire discussion is a waste of time and a complete distraction. If you DON'T want to use 3pv, then DON'T.

[HeadNotFound]

3rd person view is in no way shape or form going to add to the immersion of a Mech Sim... quiet the opposite I'm afraid =/

[Rokuzachi]

Cnox, on 16 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

Stormfury, the 1% is the most vocal here. You don't have the player base that PGI is trying to attract here now to voice their opinions because the gameplay does not appeal to them. Don't you think that making more appealing gameplay to get more players would make the overall game experience better? (more players, more money, more activity, more buzz, more development, more features!)

I posted above how to make the 3rd person view not 'cheeze' by hiding view of enemy mechs that the 1pv would not have LOS to. I think that pretty much would address any concerns (except for those people that 'just don't like it').

And you missed my point about the attitude here: this 'absolutely not or else I'm never playing this game again' attitude is absolutely TOXIC to this game. I wouldn't want to cater to a group of players that are so fickle that something as benign as 3rd person view (with the restrictions that keep it from being a magic see-around-corners described above) makes them quit the game. That's just more of a reason to get players into the game for the sheer enjoyment instead of these misguided principles.

Yes. While clunky and stompy and slower paced combat may be intentional, it's not that appealing to a general audience. 3rd person has a more 'actiony' feel to it. I love the way the game feels, but I'm nostalgic. The game needs more than nostalgia junkies and BT hardliners to keep it alive in the long run.

Edited by Rokuzachi, 16 November 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[DivineEvil]

Mph... running in obstacles... just make a Mech to actually suddenly stop with sound effect, shock and some minor damage. And the same stuff when mechs collide. That will teach people to watch where they're going without making it bowling games.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

Cnox, on 16 November 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

I read the link, and they said 1st person would be there out of the gate. Well, guess what, they're out of the gate, and off to the races. They never said they would not have 3rd person, or that this game would be 100% first person. But you can read plain English and put words into their mouths if that's what turns your crank. For the rest of us, this entire discussion is a waste of time and a complete distraction. If you DON'T want to use 3pv, then DON'T.

Beta is out the gate?

o_O

[Cnox]

AvatarofWhat, on 16 November 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Hmm, let me think? Maybe because that's they game they promised? no... oh I know! It's because 91.5% of the current player base absolutely does not want 3rd person added in!

You clearly need things spelled out for you, and everything you said about freerides applies more to you and the 4% you represent then the 91% I represent.

The current 91% of the current player base is 5% of what the player base COULD BE if they implemented features to attract a larger player base. Your perspective is to screw the larger audience to get a game that plays the way YOU want to play (and as I've said about 6 times already, if you don't want to play in 3pv then DON'T). How does it make ANY sense to have a SMALLER audience appeal because a small number of POTENTIAL players want a feature that they don't HAVE to use if they don't want to?

How can you defend this position? Seriously, are you TRYING to get the game to fail?

[Gimpy Warpig]

EvilCow, on 16 November 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Create trainings like MW2/4 and donate 2M CB *only after* completing the training, result:
1) Guided and easier access to the game for the masses
2) Less clueless pugs
3) No stupid 3pv and happy community

I agree whole-heartedly with #'s 1 and 2 here. Disagree with 3, but do agree that 3pv alone wouldnt solve PGI's issue with new player retention. There needs to be a tutorial system, even rudimentary map with some targets. Even better, ability to drop into a lobby type system - make one and mark it "noobies only" - and let em chat and meet with people.... Other players WILL HELP, but dropping them into live games with zero training - you're getting the veteran players grumpy about it cuz they need to win to grind their CBills and the nooby players disgusted because they just cant figure anything out and are getting killed from the get-go.

[Black Alexidor]

Cnox, on 16 November 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

No one's forcing you. If you don't want to use it, don't. If you don't want it because it would attract 'the wrong sort of player' to the game, please **** your high horse and let people play the way they want to play.

I said neither of your comments, so I dont know where you get off accusing me of such things.

I feel like it would jeopardize the foundation that this game was built upon. (simulation)

If you have anything constructive to add, I am open to discuss it, but if you are here to merely slander, this will be my last response to you.

This is a thread discussing the implementation of 3rd person, as someone who has played most of the previous MW games and who has been waiting around a decade for a new mechwarrior game this is how I feel about this games current state.