170 replies to this topic

[Taizan]

TLDR version:
"I am not going to buy that concept controller that isn't even out yet because of an during open beta announced game feature that isn't implemented yet and may take several months before it is available within the game."

Edit:
Instead bring TrackIR support, PGI. That product at least actually exists and there is an API that has been implemented and proven in other successful games.

Edited by Taizan, 15 November 2012 - 07:30 AM.

[Cant Get Right]

Can we fix the problems that already exist and in some cases have since cbt? Let's start there and then worry about adding things to the game. PGI didn't listen to us about putting in a real solo or target based or team based training room. One could argue that you can do that in the regualr game. But come on there are way too many trolls in a pug match. If they continue to not listen to the CBT's..Then this is the direction we will continue to head.

You at PGI need to learn from the likes of Denis Dyack and ToR and Diablo 3. their failings are legendary and i was there for all 3 wehn players gave good advice and tips and ways to make these games better, Not one of these games/companies listened and even out right lied. Now they don't do so great ya? MWO is not a casual game. It never has been. Sooooo in order to cater to casuals you have to give them more room to breathe. Let them go out and play by themselves. Let players perform solo weapons and heat tests, etc.

[Ozzalin]

Cant Get Right, on 15 November 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

Can we fix the problems that already exist and in some cases have since cbt? Let's start there and then worry about adding things to the game. PGI didn't listen to us about putting in a real solo or target based or team based training room. One could argue that you can do that in the regualr game. But come on there are way too many trolls in a pug match. If they continue to not listen to the CBT's..Then this is the direction we will continue to head.

You at PGI need to learn from the likes of Denis Dyack and ToR and Diablo 3. their failings are legendary and i was there for all 3 wehn players gave good advice and tips and ways to make these games better, Not one of these games/companies listened and even out right lied. Now they don't do so great ya? MWO is not a casual game. It never has been. Sooooo in order to cater to casuals you have to give them more room to breathe. Let them go out and play by themselves. Let players perform solo weapons and heat tests, etc.

Finally a very good reply.
Amen to that my friend.

[Ozzalin]

Blowfeld, on 15 November 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

Says the non founder

One other thing i do find very sad today.
Not only that PGI is now trying to divide us all in 2 or 3 groups with that 3rd person crap.
But it seems clear now that there is 2 different community players on this forum...

The Founders, and the (Like Blowfed said) "Non Founders"
It's a frekin' sad day for MWO man. And i mean it.

[Corwin111]

Ozzalin, on 15 November 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

Some of you can have the chance to throw big chunk of money left and right with no real concern about your wallet, buying expensive founder pack at 60$ or 100%, spending on a lot of MCs etc etc.
For you, of course it won't be a big deal whether or not nothing is clear, and no real answers is provided, but for a lot of us, working everyday with average salaries spending money here, and also planning to buy an expensive controller for the game we love, CAN be a big deal.

That is why i asked PGI and also Razer to be clear on those questions.

And you zip past the point that I was trying to make like a meteor.

My point was that "probably not" means PROBABLY FRICKING NOT! When you get right down to it, "probably" is the most certain that you can ever really be in anything that you plan to happen.

And my $60 were spent because I love the franchise and respect the work that PGI has undertaken and I want to support it, not because I drive a Lamborgini.

If you really work a job which doesn't pay enough for you to be able to afford a singular payment of $60 to support a dream that you would like to see realized, then I suggest you find a better job.

Edited by Corwin111, 15 November 2012 - 07:35 AM.

[Tharnus]

Ha poor guy! Thought he was helping people out and taking the initiative and instead has neckbeards shouting at him on forums for what he's done. Sure his letter isn't quite up to scratch but at least he feels passionate enough to get answers about something he wants rather than sit and moan on a forum to which the devs will never look at or take notice of.

[Ozzalin]

Tharnus, on 15 November 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

Ha poor guy! Thought he was helping people out and taking the initiative and instead has neckbeards shouting at him on forums for what he's done. Sure his letter isn't quite up to scratch but at least he feels passionate enough to get answers about something he wants rather than sit and moan on a forum to which the devs will never look at or take notice of.

Thank you Tharnus.
I'm probably not the best at writing letters, but i tried my best to get a real answer on an important question.

TigerKarl, on 15 November 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

What a disgusting drama queen

You are quite welcome Tiger.
See you on the battlefield, no matter if you can peak around corners in your amazing new 3rd person view.
I'll fight as pilot as long as the game remains the same, once it turns into easy mode kid crap.
I'm gone.

[Bguk]

Ozzalin, on 15 November 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

One other thing i do find very sad today.
Not only that PGI is now trying to divide us all in 2 or 3 groups with that 3rd person crap.
But it seems clear now that there is 2 different community players on this forum...

The Founders, and the (Like Blowfed said) "Non Founders"
It's a frekin' sad day for MWO man. And i mean it.

With this post I'm starting to think you see only what you want to.

[Henchman 24]

AlexEss, on 15 November 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

Actually a good amount of people have been calling for it.. On the beta boards and (if the devs are to be believed) during trade shows and similar events.

You know, I listened to that podcast, and all Russ could offer up for proof this was 'necessary' was that not knowing where your legs vs torso was turned was their #1 problem listed by new players.

We have yet to see anywhere near the requests for 3rd person view on the forums(past and present) as there are negative posts asking to disregard this dumb idea.

No Russ...what you need to do is something you didn't want to apparently, and actually code a 'training simulator' mode into the game, similar to what you had to do in MW2 in the beginning. Turning courses, running courses, fire control, etc, using cover.

ALL of what the newbs whine about would be dealt with if they were forced to go through that before they can even see a trial mech. Problem solved, everybody knows the controls....no cheesy 3rd person needed. But of course, it takes less time/money to screw the game over by changing a camera view doesn't it?

Do us all a favor, and ask Id software what happens to your game when you constantly strive for snot-nosed, button mashers to join in. I realize they are a cash cow, they have no clue what value is, and they are easy cash prey....but catering to them, won't help this IP one bit. MechAssault should have taught you that.

[Ozzalin]

Bguk, on 15 November 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

With this post I'm starting to think you see only what you want to.

Says the founder

See? its all little things like that, that makes everything non-constructive.
I have wrote a letter to get an answer.
If you don't like it, and or do not need real answers.
There are other games out there.

Edited by Ozzalin, 15 November 2012 - 07:42 AM.

[AlexEss]

Ozzalin, on 15 November 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

Says the founder

here is another founder... with an idea, tell me what you think

One way to do it is once the we get the ranking system (that is still part of phase 3 MM system) you could have the option open for rank say 1-5 (of for the sake of argument 100 scale) and after that it is disable for anything but friendly pre-made matches outside of the CW. That way you can still "warm" the newcommers up and get them familiar but without affecting the rest of the game. And you would give the people who like to make machianimas a better tool to do so.

Feel free to point out anything i missed.

[Bguk]

Bguk, on 15 November 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

Last I checked anyone can buy MC so no need for this.

Ozzalin, on 15 November 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

Says the founder

You're just proving my point more and more. Enjoy.

[Johnny Morgan]

AlexEss, on 15 November 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

And if you feel insecure about it just wait a bit and see how they implement the TPS system before you plonk down enough cash for a stick to solve the Greece financial crisis.

Not that I disagree with the OPs concerns but this line is GOLD BABY!

AlexEss, on 15 November 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

here is another founder... with an idea, tell me what you think

One way to do it is once the we get the ranking system (that is still part of phase 3 MM system) you could have the option open for rank say 1-5 (of for the sake of argument 100 scale) and after that it is disable for anything but friendly pre-made matches outside of the CW. That way you can still "warm" the newcommers up and get them familiar but without affecting the rest of the game. And you would give the people who like to make machianimas a better tool to do so.

Feel free to point out anything i missed.

I don't personally have a problem with 3rd person view *as long as I can opt out of playing with them*. I love the idea of expanding the tools for 3rd party content creation. The Engine would be great to use for machianimas and that is something I didn't even think of in regards to a 3rd person view option.

If I have to play with them I am going to get annoyed by it, unless they implement it in a way that doesn't grant additional bonuses to the pilot (aka, 360 camera radar).

Otherwise please let me choose to play with the part of the community that wants a simulator. I am all for making the newbie experience easier and better but please make it part of the ranking (i.e. 3rd person is training wheels).

Edited by Johnny Morgan, 15 November 2012 - 07:48 AM.

[Ozzalin]

AlexEss, on 15 November 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

here is another founder... with an idea, tell me what you think

One way to do it is once the we get the ranking system (that is still part of phase 3 MM system) you could have the option open for rank say 1-5 (of for the sake of argument 100 scale) and after that it is disable for anything but friendly pre-made matches outside of the CW. That way you can still "warm" the newcommers up and get them familiar but without affecting the rest of the game. And you would give the people who like to make machianimas a better tool to do so.

Feel free to point out anything i missed.

I do believe it is quite a good idea Alex.
I will add this:

Add more maps before release, including a night map which would make out night vision worth something.

Add some more components and elements to maps then simply rocks and or chunky square sterile buildings.

Fix the bugs and also the profile icon broken link on forums.

Add In-Mechs voice over as the original games had (original Carole would be nice)

Open the faction houses.

[Grits N Gravy]

Ehh I really doubt the Artemis is going to happen. The cost to develop and produce it Vs the potential revenue generated by sales could in no way justify the project.

First there is so much development that has to happen to make this work. Beyond figuring out of the basic control functions. IE If the joystick input mimics the mouse function, what input turns the mech? There is also fundamental issues with coding of the mech's movement that has to be resolved before any joystick is truly a viable control system. Currently, the input for turning is binary now, either on or off. There would need to be a lot of changes to the code to implement variable turn speed movement via a joystick.

Spoiler

Paul Inouye, on 23 October 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Remember, turning a Mech (it's feet) is a DIGITAL (on/off) movement at the moment. This means when you press left or right to turn your Mech, it turns just like you're pressing the A or D key on the keyboard. Slight movements on the joystick react like a key press. We know this is not how sim players want it and it should be small movements = slow turns. The problem is, the fix requires a huge code update on Mech movement. This is something we cannot tackle at the moment but it IS going to be addressed. We just can't give you a confirmed date of delivery.

Then developing not only the touchscreen itself but also implementing the functionality of it into the game is also hundreds of man hours. Then get into the actual physical production of the device, creating the plastic molds, finding a plant, hiring a labor and all the other thing you need to do to produce a new product. It's a huge capital outlay for a device that is only going to sell a limited amount of units.


The joystick market isn't exactly a lucrative field. How many games uses joysticks? the demand is pretty low even for basic sticks in the 40 dollar price range. The Artemis would be at the upper end of the cost for joysticks, well above the 150 price point, there's just much tech and cost in it. Anything more than 60 bucks and it's going to be a struggle to convince someone to buy a device that only really works with one game. They would probably struggle to sell more than10k of the Artemis. Which means in the price point would have to be very high to cover expenses on the project, thus further driving down sales.

In short it's expensive to create, with little to no chance of ever making the money back spent on it's development and production. It's also way to expensive to do as a mass run promotional piece, in which PGI would cover razer for their loss on the project. All the Artemis ever was is, a promotional concept, designed to generate buzz about both MWO and razer projects. Which it has done a pretty good job of as evidenced by this post.

Edited by Grits N Gravy, 15 November 2012 - 07:49 AM.

[AlexEss]

I think all of those things are coming Ozzalin. I just wanted to point out there are ways of doing things that does not make the game worse even if it is in essence "breaking a promise" and if i could come up with that in about an hour i think the devs will be able to wokr out a good system too.

Edited by AlexEss, 15 November 2012 - 07:51 AM.

[Ozzalin]

Grits N Gravy, on 15 November 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Ehh I really doubt the Artemis is going to happen. The cost to develop and produce it Vs the potential revenue generated by sales could in no way justify the project.

First there is so much development that has to happen to make this work. Beyond the basic of figuring out of the basic controls functions. IE If the joystick input mimics the mouse function, what input turns the mech? There is also fundamental issues with coding of the mech's movement that has to be resolved before any joystick is truly a viable control system. Currently, the input for turning is binary now, either on or off. There would need to be a lot of changes to the code to implement variable turn speed movement via a joystick.

Spoiler

Then developing not only the touchscreen itself but also implementing the functionality of it into the game is also hundreds of man hours. Then get into the actual physical production of the device, creating the plastic molds, finding a plant, hiring a labor and all the other thing you need to do to produce a new product. It's a huge capital outlay for a device that is only going to sell a limited amount of units.


The joystick market isn't exactly a lucrative field. How many games uses joysticks? the demand is pretty low even for basic sticks in the 40 dollar price range. The Artemis would be at the upper end of the cost for joysticks, well above the 150 price point, there's just much tech and cost in it. Anything more than 60 bucks and it's going to be a struggle to convince someone to buy a device that only really works with one game. They would probably struggle to sell more than10k of the Artemis. Which means in the price point would have to be very high to cover expenses on the project, thus further driving down sales.

In short it's expensive to create, with little to no chance of ever making the money back spent on it's development and production. It's also way to expensive to do as a mass run promotional piece, in which PGI would cover razer for their loss on the project. All the Artemis ever was is, a promotional concept, designed to generate buzz about both MWO and razer projects. Which it has done a pretty good job of as evidenced by this post.

If you're right, its quite sad. As the Artemis controller was one of its kind.
There is not a lot of immersive controllers like that out there.

[Bguk]

Ozzalin, on 15 November 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

Says the founder

See? its all little things like that, that makes everything non-constructive.
I have wrote a letter to get an answer.
If you don't like it, and or do not need real answers.
There are other games out there.

You edited this post from what it was so I'll also reply to this one.

I agree. Next time read the posts in order and realize that someone was sticking up for the non founders crowd.

And also read what I personally wrote on this subject. The only thing I have issue with is the part where you speak for the community at large. See? It's the great bit ginormous things like not reading that makes things non-constructive.

I like that you wrote them a letter. I hate that you stated you're speaking for the whole community.

[Ozzalin]

AlexEss, on 15 November 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

I think all of those things are coming Ozzalin. I just wanted to point out there are ways of doing things that does not make the game worse even if it is in essence "breaking a promise" and if i could come up with that in about an hour i think the devs will be able to wokr out a good system too.

I will tell you something.
If i can stay inside my mech as intended 1st, if i can play in 1st person mode without being forced to go to a 1st person room to play only with 1st person users. i'll be more than happy.

But honestly, i didn't come here to play a 3rd person game, i have plenty of these already.
I came here to get the real Mechwarrior experience, as a pilot inside my Mech.
And i will, again, quote PGI before you all got your founder packs:

" "we want the player to feel they are not just the mech, they are the pilot inside the mech"

[Grits N Gravy]

Ozzalin, on 15 November 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

If you're right, its quite sad. As the Artemis controller was one of its kind.
There is not a lot of immersive controllers like that out there.

There are some awesome flight sticks, and setups out there. If they just put in non binary movement and added some multi monitor MFD setup you would only be limited by your ingenuity and imagination.