2926 replies to this topic

[DeaconW]

MadSavage, on 06 July 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

. If 3PV helps these players enjoy the game, they should have the option to play that way. 3PV is not an 'extention to sacrosanct gameplay,' it is a way to simplify the game for people new to the franchise.

And if that was true, I would be less concerned. The problem is that you (and others) are naive enough to believe it will stay that way, despite the evidence in other game franchises and in the evidence i posted to the contrary. Were you here in closed beta where "this will always be 1PV" and "we won't have coolant flush" were some of PGI's positions?

[DeaconW]

MadSavage, on 06 July 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Wolf is in fact correct, you can select 1PV or mixed 1PV or 3PV modes, and the evidence you posted supports that.

And your naive inability to see through the statements (and in fact, ignore high impact words like "sacrosanct") to what doors PGI has left open to itself is quite charming...tell me, are you old enough to vote? And if so, I imagine you take the politicians at their word?

[DeaconW]

MadSavage, on 06 July 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

I have a problem with people focused on nitpicking what other people have to say to make themselves look better.

Also...I am not sure what appearance has to do with any of this but...nothing is going to make this old guy more attractive and I don't work for a rival company so I am not trying to make another product "look better". Actually...now I don't even understand your sentence at all...

[Bootsock]

All this quitting nonsense seems to be a very over the top reaction. Personally, I'll just stick to playing using the current view, and if third person view brings in more players then great, so long as it keeps game development moving.

The only thing which would make me quit is if first person was removed altogether, or just lame generic cockpits being provided (e.g. one stock cockpit regardless of 'mech chassis.). Realistically though I can't see that happening as it would be suicide.

At the moment, I'd actually like to have third person perspective in the game to check out how ridiculous the new terrain effects are on movement, for example looking outside to see if something I can't move past should really be blocking me.

[MadSavage]

DeaconW, on 06 July 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

And if that was true, I would be less concerned. The problem is that you (and others) are naive enough to believe it will stay that way, despite the evidence in other game franchises and in the evidence i posted to the contrary. Were you here in closed beta where "this will always be 1PV" and "we won't have coolant flush" were some of PGI's positions?

The upper echelon of players will always choose 1PV only. There is also no coolant flush in the sense of MW4, MWLL, or MW3. The coolant flush of MWO is nowhere near the crutch of the coolant flush of those three titles. PGI has stayed true to their word.

I am not naive, I am a realist, and the fact is that PGI's balance decisions so far have been thoughtful and according to the community's suggestions. PPCs were buffed because people wanted them to be that way. Hit detection is 90% fixed, all ballistic weapons are viable (even MGs, 1 DPS per), lasers are commonplace, jump snipers have been nerfed, terrain movement scaling is in properly in place. I have nothing but faith in the future of this game.

DeaconW, on 06 July 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

And your naive inability to see through the statements (and in fact, ignore high impact words like "sacrosanct") to what doors PGI has left open to itself is quite charming...tell me, are you old enough to vote? And if so, I imagine you take the politicians at their word?

Again, you make yourself the fool. You are unable to look at what has been said basically understand it. There is no definitive proof that 3PV will be forced on the entire community. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT. Their word is all we have to go on.


All that has been said is your arguement is wrong and the evidence you've provided proves you're wrong. Yes, 1PV is the primary viewmode, but nothing Garth Erlam or Bryan Ekman has said amounts to anything reguarding whether this feature will be forced on the rest of the community.

You have a neurotic drive to power. Your only goal is to state your opinion is the ONLY opinion and to badmouth other people. You said

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Just say "I think you are wrong" and move on.

You can move on now.

You've said people are wrong and yet you aren't moving on. You continually personally attack those who disagree with you. Your way is the only way and we're naive or stupid for not agreeing with you.

Edited by MadSavage, 06 July 2013 - 10:02 AM.

[DeaconW]

MadSavage, on 06 July 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

The upper echelon of players will always choose 1PV only.

You mean like what happened in MW4? Or the fact that the "upper echelons of players" here in MWO have been too honorable to participate in any of the OP metas....I have to ask...are you serious?

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There is also no coolant flush in the sense of MW4, MWLL, or MW3. The coolant flush of MWO is nowhere near the crutch of the coolant flush of those three titles. PGI has stayed true to their word.

True believer. Admirable.

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Again, you make yourself the fool. You are unable to look at what has been said basically understand it. There is no definitive proof that 3PV will be forced on the entire community. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT. Their word is all we have to go on.

You were saying what about personal attacks? Oh...but i digress. There is also no definitive proof that it *won't* go the way I have described...and their "word" is pretty shaky to plant your flag on give how it has been broken. The difference between you and me is that you apparently take everyone at their word and I am more circumspect. Tell you what...I have this uncle who is a pastor and state minister in Nigeria and if you send him $5000 he will send you $5Million...you in?

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All that has been said is your arguement is wrong and the evidence you've provided proves you're wrong. Yes, 1PV is the primary viewmode, but nothing Garth Erlam or Bryan Ekman has said amounts to anything reguarding whether this feature will be forced on the rest of the community.

We'll see three months after 3PV is introduced. I'll meet you back here.

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You have a neurotic drive to power. Your only goal is to state your opinion is the ONLY opinion and to badmouth other people.

Ooo...you got that straw man on the ropes...one more hit and he'll go down!

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You continually personally attack those who disagree with you.

I don't believe I have personally attacked anyone. What do you think is a "personal attack"?

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Your way is the only way and we're naive or stupid for not agreeing with you.

No..there is a chance that this could not go the way I have described it and you could be correct...and i fully admit that. I hope that i am wrong. It is people on your side who blindly believe what they are fed and refuse to acknowledge that I *may* be right who think their way is the "only way".

Here's another way to look at it...If we don't keep pressure on PGI to *not* do what i have predicted, they could think the player base thinks it is an acceptable option. Do you want that?

Edited by DeaconW, 06 July 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[MadSavage]

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Ooo...you got that straw man on the ropes...one more hit and he'll go down!

I've just noticed you posted three different times while I was reading and typing. Anxious much?

DeaconW, on 06 July 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

You mean like what happened in MW4? Or the fact that the "upper echelons of players" here in MWO have been too honorable to participate in any of the OP metas....I have to ask...are you serious?

In MW4, jump sniping and high alpha builds were all there was. The fact that third person was in the game made this an even more severe problem. Many skilled players in MWO have pledged to use 1PV exclusively because they don't want a game that's that exploitable. You can read through this thread if you'd like proof. So, again, you've contradicted yourself.

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You were saying what about personal attacks? Oh...but i digress. There is also no definitive proof that it *won't* go the way I have described...and their "word" is pretty shaky to plant your flag on give how it has been broken. The difference between you and me is that you apparently take everyone at their word and I am more circumspect. Tell you what...I have this uncle who is a pastor and state minister in Nigeria and if you send him $5000 he will send you $5Million...you in?

The fact is that PGI has stated in the articles you linked that 3PV won't be forced on those who don't want it. Simple. That's all I've said and all you've done is say those who believe them are naive and stupid.

[DeaconW]

MadSavage, on 06 July 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

I've just noticed you posted three different times while I was reading and typing. Anxious much?

No, just efficient.

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In MW4, jump sniping and high alpha builds were all there was. The fact that third person was in the game made this an even more severe problem. Many skilled players in MWO have pledged to use 1PV exclusively because they don't want a game that's that exploitable. You can read through this thread if you'd like proof. So, again, you've contradicted yourself.

"Contradicted"...I don't think that word means what you think it means. I do admire your belief that the "white knight players" here won't let anything bad happen in MWO...just like they did in MW4. Oh wait...maybe *you* should go look up contradicted...

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The fact is that PGI has stated in the articles you linked that 3PV won't be forced on those who don't want it. Simple. That's all I've said and all you've done is say those who believe them are naive and stupid.

No, I have said that I believe they are naive (you are the only one saying "stupid" and "fool" regularly). Like I said, we'll have to wait and see, won't we?

[MadSavage]

The main problem with MW4, as I said, was the exploitation of 3PV. Many players in MWO have pledged to not use 3PV. I don't see how relating the scene in MW4 changes what has already been said reguarding MWO and 3PV.

Fact: 3PV is an option and many have stated they won't use it.

Fact: you have done the name calling and are making a fool of yourself.

[DeaconW]

MadSavage, on 06 July 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

The main problem with MW4, as I said, was the exploitation of 3PV. Many players in MWO have pledged to not use 3PV. I don't see how relating the scene in MW4 changes what has already been said reguarding MWO and 3PV.

Fact: 3PV is an option and many have stated they won't use it.

Fact: you have done the name calling and are making a fool of yourself.

Whatever you want to believe, Mad. Whatever you want to believe. I hope we can re-engage on this topic 3 months after 3PV is released...I really do.

[MadSavage]

If players who want MW4 style play in MWO start hosting 3PV tournaments, who are you to say that isn't allowed to happen?

[Belorion]

GumbyC2C, on 06 July 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Calling it now, mixed queues will be the norm because of all the dumbed down gamers. Historically, lots of games have been dumbed down to generate more sales. It makes me sad, but it is true. Idiocracy is on the way. Tribes 2 to Tribes Vengance, Battlefield 2 to Battlefield 3, The CoD series is a complete trip down this road. And now we can unproudly add Mechwarrior to that list.
Again, if you want to make a 3rd person Battletech mech game that's great, license the right IP. No one would make a first person Battletech simulator game called MechCommander 3.
I also have a hard time seeing how this does not grant a serious advantage in close combat to the 3rd person players. They won't need their sensors to track the enemy players. No need for a Seismic or a 360 since you can just see them. No need to learn how to look down at the radar and figure out what the mechs around you are doing since you can just see them.

Like I pointed out before, as long as a substantial amount of players select "any" then even if there is only one person in FPV only they will get games and quickly.

Edited by Belorion, 06 July 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[Morhadel]

This is to MAD and anyone else with the view that 3pv "won't be forced on anyone".
If I am EVER forced to play against anyone using 3pv, then it is being forced on me.
PGI having a 1pv queue and a separate 3pv or 1pv queue, this would be the only way they could keep from forcing 3pv on anyone.
JUST BECAUSE YOUR NOT USING IT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS NOT BEING FORCED ON YOU.

As for MW4 I rarely played against the cheating 3pv'ers, since servers could force 1pv on the players that came in. And during clan wars our first bid was always "forced 1st person view" under server options.

Edited by Morhadel, 06 July 2013 - 01:44 PM.

[Belorion]

Morhadel, on 06 July 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

This is to MAD and anyone else with the view that 3pv "won't be forced on anyone".
If I am EVER forced to play against anyone using 3pv, then it is being forced on me. Now if they have the 1pv queue and a separate 3pv or 1pv queue, this being the only way they could keep from forcing 3pv on me.
JUST BECAUSE YOUR NOT USING IT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS NOT BEING FORCED ON YOU.

As for MW4 I rarely played against the cheating 3pv'ers, since servers could force 1pv on the players that came in. And during clan wars our first bid was always "forced 1st person view" under server options.

and that's the way they are doing it, with an option to chose "any". 1 FPV queue, 1 Mixed queue, and one any option. Its not forced on you, you don't have to play against it, its completely optional. In fact they stated it won't even be an option in the top tier of CW merc vs merc play.

[DeaconW]

Morhadel, on 06 July 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

This is to MAD and anyone else with the view that 3pv "won't be forced on anyone".
If I am EVER forced to play against anyone using 3pv, then it is being forced on me.
PGI having a 1pv queue and a separate 3pv or 1pv queue, this would be the only way they could keep from forcing 3pv on anyone.

Don't forget how we have 8-man and 4-man-or-single ques now...seen how many are playing 8-man? Because there are a lack of features that competition minded players need(such as a lobby or weight class matching or other tournament-style limitations). Right now, PGI could legitimately say "Hey, we provided an 8-man que for the hardcore players but very few use it so we are doing away with it.". When the real reason would be a lack of features and support for it. I can envision a scenario where having 1PV and 1PV/3PV ques will result in exactly the same thing that happens now...almost everyone will gravitate to the more powerful meta (in this case, 3PV...there is no way I can imagine to implement it without it giving an SA advantage) so there will be a dearth of players in the 1PV que which will result in PGI legitimately saying, "Well, we supported a 1PV que for the hardcore players but very few used it so we are doing away with it". People who think having a 1PV and a 1PV/3PV que "fixes" the problem do not understand the economic principle of opportunity cost which can be applied here. If I am a 1PV player I am being prevented from having half (for the sake of argument) of the player base as "content" (remember, in F2P games, players are "content" for the other players). The same is true for the 3PV player. In any case, further splitting the player base in this manner seems like a bad idea, in general. Long que times mean people stop playing which means people stop buying stuff which means the game dies. I don't want this to happen.

I could be wrong...but, in general, if I bet on human nature (selfish), and what I have learned from my life experience(Murphy was an optimist), the odds are against it. I truly hope I am completely wrong because i want this game to become the awesomeness it could be, not a footnote in a future PC Gamer about how not to make a F2P game...

Edited by DeaconW, 06 July 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[Morhadel]

how can you trust their word? they already lied about having 3pv in the game at all.
and could you give pop a link for that i would like to read it for myself. thanks.

[Belorion]

ask the devs number 41 is where they address it.


They are not doing away with 8 man, they won't have any reason to do away with fpv only. Any time my corp plays 8 mans we barely have a wait at all.

[Grimmnyr]

Morhadel, on 06 July 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

how can you trust their word? they already lied about having 3pv in the game at all.
and could you give pop a link for that i would like to read it for myself. thanks.

While I agree that they were deceptive to the founders, PGI did not out and out lie. PGI used "lawer-speak" which could be interpreted as "yes"or "no" and they can not be pinned to either.

Edited by Ed Steele, 06 July 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[Warge]

BoneCrusherz, on 04 July 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

Look at world of tanks as an example.

Millions of flies do not make mistakes when flying to s**t.

[Gremlich Johns]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 05 July 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Oh cool so since it's a choice, let me go choose to smoke some crack. That's not dumb at all. Your logic is terrible. People make dumb choices all the time. Quitting over a feature you don't have to deal with is dumb.

That statement makes your reasoning skills very suspect. Not to mention it makes you seem, ummm, a cretin. And using Crack as an example is simply ignorant. People do not initially smoke crack because they have to (granted, being threatened with bodily harm if they don't is another issue), they try it (perhaps because they have poor reasoning skills or mental illness) and then MAYBE they begin to have to (that is called "addiction").

People are playing MWO because they want to, then later, they can choose quite freely to not simply because they are done with it for whatever reason they can live with. Being pushed to the point is where we are at with the possibility of being forced to play in 3PV.

They do not need some dork telling them they are dumb if they don't want to play a game you do - for whatever reason. They have the free will to do so and they do not need your blessing one way or the other.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 06 July 2013 - 04:14 PM.