2926 replies to this topic

[Unclecid]

ya know its been said time and again...a simple in-game training tutorial like the older mechwarrior games that teaches you how to run, gun and twist about is all that is needed.

no need whatsoever for a 3rd person view...that is just a cop out.

[von Pilsner]

Unclecid, on 17 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

ya know its been said time and again...a simple in-game training tutorial like the older mechwarrior games that teaches you how to run, gun and twist about is all that is needed.

no need whatsoever for a 3rd person view...that is just a cop out.

I get the feeling that they decided for 3rd person and it's gonna happen no matter what the community thinks.
I am surprised that the devs are not into tutorial missions but want casual gamers to play.

[LynxFury]

Honestly 3000 votes is a pretty tiny number compared to what it's going to take to get this game off the ground.

Meanwhile there's potential for tens of thousands of players from prior MW series to take a look at MWO. And you know what...the majority of that vast player base of former titles, all of which plucked down hard cash, preferred 3 person or no-heat/unlimited ammo games--often all three. When they peak inside MWO, if those play modes aren't available, most of them won't give it a second thought and look at another game.

As long as it's segregated from the sim version, why should any of us really care? We might need that less simmi player base to even get this title off the ground.

[Xaero]

3rd Person is absolutely non-viable method of view. We are piloting large walking tanks, more or less. 3rd person view would in reality be a cheaters method. This should not be realized at all.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

LynxFury, on 17 November 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

Honestly 3000 votes is a pretty tiny number compared to what it's going to take to get this game off the ground.

Meanwhile there's potential for tens of thousands of players from prior MW series to take a look at MWO. And you know what...the majority of that vast player base of former titles, all of which plucked down hard cash, preferred 3 person or no-heat/unlimited ammo games--often all three. When they peak inside MWO, if those play modes aren't available, most of them won't give it a second thought and look at another game.

As long as it's segregated from the sim version, why should any of us really care? We might need that less simmi player base to even get this title off the ground.

You're looking at the wrong number. The important one is 91%.

Keep in mind that a large portion of the playerbase doesn't visit the forums (it's just how these things work) but the forums still provide a decent snapshot of how the community feels about certian issues.

[Stickjock]

LynxFury, on 17 November 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

Honestly 3000 votes is a pretty tiny number compared to what it's going to take to get this game off the ground.

Meanwhile there's potential for tens of thousands of players from prior MW series to take a look at MWO. And you know what...the majority of that vast player base of former titles, all of which plucked down hard cash, preferred 3 person or no-heat/unlimited ammo games--often all three. When they peak inside MWO, if those play modes aren't available, most of them won't give it a second thought and look at another game.

That bit I highlighted... that's sort of what I keep trying to get at when I respond to everyone referencing the "91% voted NO 3rd Person View"...

Example... IGP/PGI Big-wigs, financial backers, and anyone else behind the scenes... they see numbers... most companies/corporations look at numbers... sure... 91%+ folks are voting NO on that poll... but again... when that 91%+ equates to less than 1% of registered players of MW:O at this time... who and what conclusion could you think they might make??

"Well... less than 1% are vehemently opposed to the idea... then again... 99%+ are pretty indifferent or in favor of it"...

Now, Garth did say they're just "exploring" the idea and what it would take to impliment it... but still... it really, honestly wouldn't surprise me to see 3rd person put into the game at some point... not next week, or a month from now... but expect it eventually in some form...

And, if it's intro'd to the game...? Big deal honestly... I'm indifferent to the whole idea personally, I'm here for MW:O... in whatever form that we get it... have loved every minute of my time in the game since I got into Closed Beta on June 12th up to now... and WILL continue to enjoy the game (hopefully) years from now no matter what form it has taken... because I love the IP that much...

[MahKraah]

no 3. person view.
a mech pilot can not see his mech and the sourounding area from above, fact.
why should we ?
you play mwo to pilot a mech so you have to accept the limitations of such a machine.
rearview? a mech has a 360degree screen , why dont we have one in this simulation?with markers on what areas you can reach with torso, arm or head weapons. if thats difficult to implement or not wanted than a rear, popupscreen is a must.

regarding the "problems" of different torso/leg vectors:
this problem is the easyest to solve, simply change the funktion of the c key from center torso to legs to center legs to torso!
this will solve 90% of the ppls problems with the differential vectors.
we dont need or want a imersionbreaker function of a 3rd person view. a 3rd person perspective is a unfair advantage and cheap way out of the natural restrictions of the fundamental way a mech is build and functions.

[Tzarbomb]

http://www.mobygames...ping-a-tank.jpg

http://www.mobygames...ngs-are-not.jpg

look at those pictures and let me know why 3rd person is such a distinct advantage? unless you have a mech literally sitting on your A** you can't see behind you. as for seeing around buildings? you can't do that either. 3rd person is not an advantage.

i don't want to stare through a cockpit and shoot things. i want to see my mech wreaking havoc on everything. and with visual customization of your mech...what's the point if you can only stare through a cockpit? i want to see my creation. there's no point in customization if there's no way to look at it in game.

3rd person will bring mech pilots in like a flood...hardcore sim games are a niche and piranha wants to bring the mechwarrior franchise back into the limelight. good luck doing that with a sim game.

Edited by Tzarbomb, 17 November 2012 - 01:20 PM.

[KharnZor]

Tzarbomb, on 17 November 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

http://www.mobygames...ping-a-tank.jpg

http://www.mobygames...ngs-are-not.jpg

look at those pictures and let me know why 3rd person is such a distinct advantage? unless you have a mech literally sitting on your A** you can't see behind you. as for seeing around buildings? you can't do that either. 3rd person is not an advantage.

i don't want to stare through a cockpit and shoot things. i want to see my mech wreaking havoc on everything. and with visual customization of your mech...what's the point if you can only stare through a cockpit? i want to see my creation. there's no point in customization if there's no way to look at it in game.

3rd person will bring mech pilots in like a flood...hardcore sim games are a niche and piranha wants to bring the mechwarrior franchise back into the limelight. good luck doing that with a sim game.

You see the thing with 3rd person view is that is gives you a certain situational awareness that you wouldn't otherwise have.
Now go back and actually look at the pics you posted and have a good long think about it, imagine scouts coming in from the sides etc. try to picture it. A quick torso twist to the left and right will give you a panoramic view of the battlefield and with such a view imagine the tactical impact it would have on the game making much of the team based aspect (ie. having your teammates around to spot targets so you can see them on your radar etc.) useless. These are just a few reasons you should say NO to 3rd person.
PGI needs to listens to the players and actually put the effort into a proper tutorial and allow limited customization of the trial mechs then there would be no need for 3rd person view.

[Tzarbomb]

3rd person view will give this game the playerbase it needs. this game WILL NOT be able to survive catering to a miniscule hardcore sim playerbase.

and you can pan camera left and right in the cockpit, giving you essentially the same view of the battlefield that 3rd person view would doing the same thing. the situational awareness you will gain with 3rd person is NEGLIGIBLE at best.

[Shredhead]

Tzarbomb, on 17 November 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

http://www.mobygames...ping-a-tank.jpg

http://www.mobygames...ngs-are-not.jpg

look at those pictures and let me know why 3rd person is such a distinct advantage? unless you have a mech literally sitting on your A** you can't see behind you. as for seeing around buildings? you can't do that either. 3rd person is not an advantage.

i don't want to stare through a cockpit and shoot things. i want to see my mech wreaking havoc on everything. and with visual customization of your mech...what's the point if you can only stare through a cockpit? i want to see my creation. there's no point in customization if there's no way to look at it in game.

3rd person will bring mech pilots in like a flood...hardcore sim games are a niche and piranha wants to bring the mechwarrior franchise back into the limelight. good luck doing that with a sim game.

Tzarbomb, on 17 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

3rd person view will give this game the playerbase it needs. this game WILL NOT be able to survive catering to a miniscule hardcore sim playerbase.

and you can pan camera left and right in the cockpit, giving you essentially the same view of the battlefield that 3rd person view would doing the same thing. the situational awareness you will gain with 3rd person is NEGLIGIBLE at best.

Garth? Is that you?

[Tzarbomb]

no, i'm not garth. just an avid mechwarrior fan who wants this game to survive and enjoys 3rd person view. wont ruin immersion or gameplay for me, so i'm all for it.

[Shredhead]

Tzarbomb, on 17 November 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

no, i'm not garth. just an avid mechwarrior fan who wants this game to survive and enjoys 3rd person view. wont ruin immersion or gameplay for me, so i'm all for it.

Very suspicious, first two posts and such a bs...

[Kribson]

Tzarbomb, on 17 November 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

no, i'm not garth. just an avid mechwarrior fan who wants this game to survive and enjoys 3rd person view. wont ruin immersion or gameplay for me, so i'm all for it.

You and two of your friends...that's it

Edited by Kribson, 17 November 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[Gunny McDuck]

Tzarbomb, on 17 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

3rd person view will give this game the playerbase it needs. this game WILL NOT be able to survive catering to a miniscule hardcore sim playerbase.

and you can pan camera left and right in the cockpit, giving you essentially the same view of the battlefield that 3rd person view would doing the same thing. the situational awareness you will gain with 3rd person is NEGLIGIBLE at best.

Agree or disagree, PGI made it a distinct point to say that they'd never do what they're "considering" to do.

Negligible, if by that you mean a significanty wider view when the camera's viewpoint is outside and behind your mech, then yes, that would be "negligible".

Your cockpit only gives you, say 90-120 degree view, and that's only in the direction you're looking.
Put the camera outside, and you've significantly changed what someone can see with the flick of the wrist/torso.


Yeah, breaks immersion, gives a tactical advantage.


At the end of the day, if the "masses" want their MW4 type play, no heat, no ammo, 3rd person view game, and they're over 90% of the playerbase, and they end up funding the continuation of this game, and all they want is to play non-structured matches where they stomp each other with little strategy or skill.....then by all means, be my guest......as long as it enables the "hardcore" playerbase to have the meta-game and Community Warefare game that we were promised.



TSAR, I can appreciate your viewpoint, which you are obviously entitled to, but you're going to have a very hard time convincing the overwhelming majority of posters on the last 21 pages of this thread to agree with you.

[Awacs85]

Quote

wont ruin immersion or gameplay for me, so i'm all for it.

But it will ruin it for 90% of the community.....

Edited by Awacs85, 17 November 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Usagi]

Tzarbomb, on 17 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

3rd person view will give this game the playerbase it needs. this game WILL NOT be able to survive catering to a miniscule hardcore sim playerbase.

This is the rub a lot of people voicng against 3rd person are feeling. While it may get more people, it's also fundimentaly changing the game. To use some hyperbole, why don't they just add gratuitous nudity (because **** is censored) to the mechlab? that will get more users too. THat's a silly example. I'm using it to illustrate, however, that just because something "gets more people" doesn't mean it's the people that should be playing, or that it's good for the game.

If you just decide that the game is no good, and change it, fundimentaly, to cater to a diferent crowd, you should expect that the people that are invested in the abondoned game are going to be upset. They SHOULD be upset. THe rug has been pulled out from under them, at that point, to cater to a a different market, not a wider one. It may have more people in it, but it's not a market the encompasses the original market. It shifts view away from it. THAT is what people are upset about.

Tzarbomb, on 17 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

and you can pan camera left and right in the cockpit, giving you essentially the same view of the battlefield that 3rd person view would doing the same thing. the situational awareness you will gain with 3rd person is NEGLIGIBLE at best.

This is simply not true. you can look left and right from a single point in first person, and you can see left and right. That is extrodinarily different from being able to look forword from a position up, back and to the left or right of where you are. For your argument to be true, it would mean that things like parascopes, or anything like that, infact do nothing. THat's jsut not true. An expanded field of vision is always preferable, and always more advantageous.

Edited by Usagi, 17 November 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[Lord Rip]

FLes, on 17 November 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

It told us many calming things. And besides, he said that "Bryan will be writing a detailed Command Chair post on this".

I feel a bit better.

There are dozens of things I would like to read a command chair post on, and 3rd person view isn't one of them. The thought that they are wasting time on this that could be spent making more modules or getting some of the drove of content everyone is anxiously awaiting makes me wonder if they hired all Romney's political advisers or something?

[James Rydak]

Third person doesn't freak me out as long as its segregated. For example, have a set of Solaris maps and matches where you can expect coverage from every angle. I'd gladly play both styles.
--
TAZ

[Tzarbomb]

Gunny McDuck, on 17 November 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

TSAR, I can appreciate your viewpoint, which you are obviously entitled to, but you're going to have a very hard time convincing the overwhelming majority of posters on the last 21 pages of this thread to agree with you.

i understand that with a dev team so adamantly against 3rd person to suddenly change their mind on the subject is extremely upsetting to the sim playerbase. but would you rather bite your tongue and allow 3rd person to be implemented and let the game survive, or thrive for that matter, or would you still stand fast on your opinion and watch the game crumble around you?

with piranha changing their standpoint on this 3rd person thing must obviously mean they're backs are against the wall and they need to do something drastic to bring more players in.

i've played mechwarrior since the beginning. put hours upon hours upon hours of time into these games. spent most of my teenage years glued to my computer competing in MW4VL. still had hundreds upon thousands of tactical battles with 3rd person view. 3rd person may break alot of players connection with the game, but it will not with me. mechwarrior is mechwarrior no matter how it is played to me.