2926 replies to this topic

[Rejarial Galatan]

There is no way to put your camera outside the mech that will NOT give you an advantage that I as a 1st person player will have. YOU will be able to see around the corner and see me at no risk to you. There is just NO way to do that style camera w/out that sort of fundamental break. Also, they stated this game is 100% first person, advertised it as such, and now, are trying to go into false advertising and breach of trust.

[Ozzalin]

Shaddock, on 16 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

You asked for our opinion, we gave it to you, now your trying to convince us why 91% of us are wrong...you do realize your forum servers are about to melt right?

They are are not trying to convince us. I do believe, sadly, that they don't really care about our vote on 3rd person view.
And i quote.
Daeron on Podcast #2 :
"At the end of the day, There's gonna be some people out there that don't really like it, and to those i say: Suck the hell up!"

Now i love you guys at PGI, love the game, love your work, but saying things like this makes us trust you less and less everyday, you said at 1st that MWO would stay an FPS cockpit immersion game. You promised, and that is why we are here now, because we trusted you guys. Please keep the game as intended. No 3rd person.

Edited by Ozzalin, 16 November 2012 - 10:32 PM.

[Krivvan]

Optional means you can choose to never face people using 3rd person. It doesn't mean you can switch between 1st person and 3rd person, that would kind of be a given.

[Lord Rip]

So with all the current problems you can't fix you want to add something else that only a small minority are interested in?

Brilliant, the reasons to not bother with this game much longer are mounting.

3rd person view optional or not is the most wasteful use of resources you have yet to come up with. High five!

[DEATHRAMPAGE]

i thank we should get rear cam not 3d person it makes the game feel. cheap and not sim like

[Tarman]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Just to make sure everyone, well, actually read that and listened to what Russ said, we don't plan to add 3rd person. We're looking at what it would require of us if we did.

I think it would require a much larger playerbase that could support that style of play without ruining the game for the folks who care about the immersiveness of the piloting more than seeing the outside of their robot. But if you want to make the game you said you were going to, the game that made me give you money, it doesn't belong, especially in some idle podcast chatter. Like you guys had no idea what kind of crapstorm you'd kick up with any mention of 3PV in any regard. >____>

Get the real game up and running first, MAKE A REAL TUTORIAL (sorry, but really, do it already, right away; this is one thing that you have done that is just wrong), and then later on you can water it down and introduce Mechwarrior: ClownSchool 3PV for the gamers who learned about video games from their smartphone. Really, do it, it would make money (maybe a different name >__> ). That doesn't even have to be a bad game, watching giant robots fighting is cool. It could be like those toddler versions of superheroes, MechCasual; low-maintenance robot fighting. All the pewpew, none of the qq. Cute Atlas plushie!

But don't make it part of THIS game. That's all. Nobody really hates 3rd person view gaming, it's fun in its own right, except that you said that it wouldn't ever be played here pretty baldly and right at the start, so there's that. Way to kick your own pillars. What, are they car tires? That doesn't work on tires either, man. A great many of the most dedicated players and units are here because they like the competitive challenge that the single perspective provides. Anyone who played MP in previous incarnations I'd imagine moreso (poptart scars don't heal man).

So, other than not having a tutorial, your other big mistake was even bringing up the subject of 3PV in the first place, especially if you're not even actually doing it. "Hrm, I bet we could really BBQ all these babies and yet still keep them alive for a long long time!" isn't something you say in a maternity ward. You guys should know as the game devs, your words are going to hold more weight than Joe Internet.

[EmyLightsaber]

Perhaps 3rd person view isn't what we're all thinking of.

Maybe it'll be more like the View from the little drone in the Mechwarrior Reboot video that the Warhammer launches.

[Lord Rip]

EpicStoryGuy, on 16 November 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

What specifically is wrong with splitting third person view matches and first person? That lets people choose the way they would like to play w/o getting advantages.

The biggest problem with it is they can't get a handle on all the issues they have now, so what do you do? Apparently throw some more code and complexity in it.

Also wondering what happened to the " We don't want to split people up" that was why there couldn't be PuG drop and Group drops separate?

So you will split for 3rd person but not for groups?

Got it, loud and clear.

Edited by Lord Rip, 16 November 2012 - 09:20 PM.

[R01D5]

Hmm, seems as though it is still an uncertainty, it may or may not be implemented.Certainly, it would attract players who aren't
familiar with MW, which are, lets face it guys, allot more numerous than the true MW fanbase has to offer. Now, if you vote with your wallets, you may win the case.. but the respect of new MW players who are trying to blend into the MW community you will certainly lose, think, if we keep to the old ways we might just damn the community to stagnation and then decline as more and more of us get older and lose interest in MW, who will be left to continue the legacy of MechWarrior? Who will remember Battletech? The Star League? Aleksandr Karensky? No one, we bloddy well scared the Effin'new guys off, with our hardass traditions and our 1st person view in this case. If the game changes, so be it, if it will make the family grow, for better or for worse, let it change. I wish and hope to see others turn to the great universe that is Battletech and MechWarrior, to keep on hunting as we have hunted from the first MW you played, till the last. I have had the honor of fighting many of you in MW 3 and 4 and I would hate to see my brothers walk away from their Mechs, for naught. Come on men, lets stop keeping our Battletech novels and magazines under our beds like avaricious neo-aristocrats and show that we can teach and adapt. Glory to MechWarrior, good hunting to you all.

Edited by R01D5, 16 November 2012 - 09:23 PM.

[Vance Avalon]

Card, on 16 November 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Well, that was so vague that it said absolutely nothing, will accomplish nothing, and makes no one whatsoever feel any better about it at all.

Was that the point?

Actually he did say something "...For now, be assured we're acutely aware of past problems with 3rd person view, and will make sure those same issues are thoroughly addressed. We wouldn’t settle for anything less."

IF the 3rd person doesn't give any advantages like seeing around corners and perhaps even gives disadvantages, then I don't have a problem with it.

[Foksuh]

Personally I won't mind 3rd person view if you remove aiming reticules and such when you move into the view. No info about the mechs, hud removed and all, basically a "movie" mode. Just mechs and terrain with nothing else obstructing the view.

I know all the guys who love taking screenshots in games would love this sort of option and I'm sure we'd be seeing a lot of pretty pictures if this sort of option was added to the game.
Otherwise I think it'd offer very little advantages, besides the mentioned camera peeking behind corners. However, the only way to remain efficient in combat would require the view from cockpit, where you can actually aim and get all the necessary information.

Would that work out?

[Ozzalin]

R01D5, on 16 November 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

Hmm, seems as though it is still an uncertainty, it may or may not be implemented.Certainly, it would attract players who aren't
familiar with MW, which are, lets face it guys, allot more numerous than the true MW fanbase has to offer. Now, if you vote with your wallets, you may win the case.. but the respect of new MW players who are trying to blend into the MW community you will certainly lose, think, if we keep to the old ways we might just damn the community to stagnation and then decline as more and more of us get older and lose interest in MW, who will be left to continue the legacy of MechWarrior? Who will remember Battletech? The Star League? Aleksandr Karensky? No one, we bloddy well scared the Effin'new guys off, with our hardass traditions and our 1st person view in this case. If the game changes, so be it, if it will make the family grow, for better or for worse, let it change. I wish and hope to see others turn to the great universe that is Battletech and MechWarrior, to keep on hunting as we have hunted from the first MW you played, till the last. I have had the honor of fighting many of you in MW 3 and 4 and I would hate to see my brothers walk away from their Mechs, for naught. Come on men, lets stop keeping our Battletech novels and magazines under our beds like avaricious neo-aristocrats and show that we can teach and adapt. Glory to MechWarrior, good hunting to you all.

Very fancy words for trying to sell 3rd person view to us.
But i still say NO. lol sorry man, i came here to sit in my cockpit and smell the smoke and heated metal. Period.

[ei8ht]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Over the course of development, we’ve had a huge number of requests for a 3^rd person camera option.

Huge number of requests? Where? This is a blatant lie. However the numbers here on your forums don't lie as it is clear that the overwhelming majority don't want or need a a 3^rd person view option.

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

If we find that there is a relevant role for an optional 3^rd person camera mode, then then would simply be an additional option that, if you don’t want it, won’t affect you.

And this part shows us that you're already preparing to implement it, justifying the relevancy by lying about the "huge number of requests".

"Optional"? "if you don’t want it, won’t affect you."? Oh wow.
You don't seem to get it, the overwhelming majority of players do not want 3^rd person camera!

[Pat Kell]

I distinctly remeber reading a post from one of the devs stating that a 3rd person view would never be used. This was one of several reason why I dropped 120 bucks on this game because I was promised that this wouldn't develope into some kind of pop- tarting, looking around corners without being seen type of game. 3rd person view is the main reason why i stopped playing mw4. Once everyone realized that pop-tarting was one of the few viable tactics, the game became boring.

My point here is please don't make me regret paying up front. I have played for several months now, so I can't say it was a complete waste of money but I can say that I had every intention of spending more money on this game but 3rd person view would halt that...and thats a complete waste of a customer.

P.S. Saw one suggestion where you split up servers for 3rd person view and 1st person view. This sounds the most reasonable to me but I'm not sure splitting people up like that is a good idea due to limited number of people we have playing now...maybe when the community gets bigger, so while I like the thinking outside the box type of thing, I would still vote no on this for now. Please, Please keep your word on this, I can bend on a lot of things but 3rd person view is something I simply can't bend on. It would ruin the game for me and I would be forced to find other forms of entertainment. That being said, you are the devs, its your game, take it in whatever direction you think best.

[Ydav]

What we have
No optimization;
A lot of bugs, such as:
- FPS drops to 4,
- Black screen,
- a lot of disconnects,
- mechlabs freezing,
etc., etc., etc.;
lagging mechs.

And they are talking about a third person ...
A very useful option now ... yes ... (sarcasm)

fu** it all

Edited by Ydav, 16 November 2012 - 10:06 PM.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Ydav, on 16 November 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

What we have
No optimization;
A lot of bugs, such as:
- FPS drops to 4,
- Black screen,
- a lot of disconnects,
- mechlabs freezing,
etc., etc., etc.;
lagging mechs.

And they are talking about a third person ...
A very useful option now ... yes ... (sarcasm)

fu** it all

I think that is one of the major reasons why people are reacting like they are about this issue... please please don't add another layer of complexity, or split your small and already very busy dev team on this questionable idea when there is so very much that still needs worked on.

[Archinerd]

Thanks for giving us insight into how and why you are making the decisions you do. After listening to what Russ actually said I am not as worried about this 3rd person view. I'd be very careful about splitting the community into two separate camps with this though. I don't like the idea of playing against other players who are using 3rd person view but perhaps you could investigate some other types of balancing options? One suggestion off the top of my head, a c-bill or xp bonus for those of us who use first person view.

[ArusDobby]

I personally don't want 3rd person view anymore, the game has gotten better and nolonger needed. If any 3rd person view is done I would like to see it only in one instance...when dead in spectator mode....It would look awesome seeing the ongoing battle from either in cockpit of another mech or mouse wheel moving view sight out alittle.
I do wish they would get the "Free look" set though...that way in first person view of cockpit yo can see out side windows of mech cockpit...would make spotting mechs better. But hey - game getting better!!

I meant "side window areas.

[Grotonomus]

Ozzalin, on 16 November 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

They are are not trying to convince us. I do believe, sadly, that they don't really care about our vote on 3rd person view.
And i quote.
Russ on Podcast #2 :
"At the end of the day, There's gonna be some people out there that don't really like it, and to those i say: Suck the hell up!"

Now i love you guys at PGI, love the game, love your work, but saying things like this makes us trust you less and less everyday, you said at 1st that MWO would stay an FPS cockpit immersion game. You promised, and that is why we are here now, because we trusted you guys. Please keep the game as intended. No 3rd person.

You are misquoting Russ either on purpose to serve your own agenda or by not listening closely. That was said by Daeron during the podcast. Secondly this constant screaming about 3rd person has reached the point of insanity for several reasons.

1. It is not yet under implementation.
2. It is only in the gestation phase of thought.
3. This is intended to introduce and help new players to the game that haven't grasped the concept of a tank on legs and need a physical representation in front of them.

4.If you don't want to use it or play people that use it, Russ STATED, that you wouldn't have to, you will be able to opt out of that play mechanic.

Basically the concerns about 3rd person are baseless on the fact that IF it gets implemented, and you can't stand the idea of it, not to worry, you will have the choice to never see it or play against it.

We all love mechwarrior and battletech but if this game is to be successful and grow it needs a large and paying customer base. The core fans are important but we should not be the end all say all of MWO. We NEED others to build the community so that the Mechwarrior IP can be resurrected.


"In their extremism, they eliminated all moderate support… and that’s a really important political lesson that applies to a lot of different movements… that you gotta bend a little if you’re gonna keep what you’ve got. Because if you don’t bend it’s all gonna come crashing down around you."
-Catherine Gilbert Murdock, Historian

Edited by Adam ODochartaigh, 16 November 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[Usagi]

EpicStoryGuy, on 16 November 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

What specifically is wrong with splitting third person view matches and first person? That lets people choose the way they would like to play w/o getting advantages.

It would essentially split the game into 2 separate games. You would then have to balance everything to 1st and 3rd person games, and since they are fundamentally different, that would likely lead to having different items and weapons acting differently in each mode. You would also have to have two entirely separate game worlds, once that is introduced. You can't have 1st and 3rd person only players playing for the same worlds, because they can't play each other, ever. So, now you need two universes, as well as a third for the "don't care" people, potentially.

In addition to that, you cut the number of available players for each given side. assuming the split was 50/50 (which it's clearly not) you lose half the entire player base to play against or with.

Worse yet, since it isn't 50/50, once side will become dominant, and will naturally receive favoritism in development, and will basically destroy the other version, and all the players who were dedicated to that one.

Tarman, on 16 November 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Cute Atlas plushie!

I'd buy one... >_>