2926 replies to this topic

[theta123]

Armageddon, on 16 November 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I would absolutely & completely THRILLED to get a 3rd person view in MWO!!! Wow! I am so excited this is a possibility now! Lacking a 3rd person view was one of my biggest complaints in MWO.

[Carnage]

If the noobs need third person view, give them a training map and third person to learn how to play, but keep it out of real combat. If PGI is so intent on making third person, then have the hud turn off in third person so you gain no advantage in using it. 3rd person with a hud would destroy the spirit of a 1st person mech game and then PGI will have failed in the endeavor to make a true Mechwarrior experience. I didn't become a founder so I could be ignored by PGI and I am sure the majority of founders feel the same. I would ask PGI to put it to a real community vote, because in the end we are the ones who make the game successed or fail. I think there are much more things that PGI could be spending their develpoment time on that would serve the game better.

[John Clavell]

I think I've made my views on the podcast we did. I'll throw some words in here too. Firstly, I do recommend you all go listen to the NGNG podcast in question. Listen to what Russ says. I can understand why many felt blindsided by the whole thing, and for anyone else who has not listened to the podcast it's just a massive of fears cultivated on emotional forum posts. There is also no need to single Garth out and throw abuse at the dude, that's not very constructive and gets us no where.

As always a lot of the good, open and honest discussions around 3rd person perspective has been drowned out by many upset posters. But there has been some great discussion on this topic. That is what this game needs more than anything. Taking our passion and putting it to good use in an open fashion hoping PGI can take something positive away from it.

I felt like there was confusion over the timing of the 3rd person, when you look at other posts by Paul and such, and I am pretty sure there are at least two posts by him mentioning 3rd person many months back. There was always a desire to explore options around 3rd person. The bottom line from what I can see has been that the focus should be on 1st person. Personally I am interested in only playing 1st person perspective.

There has been a good number of people posting requests for 3rd person, there have been a good number of older MechAssault players around looking to maybe get back to that experience. While for 95% of the people here, including myself, who find that experience of game play extremely unattractive, they obviously enjoyed it, and non of that can take it away from them. There is certainly good reason to assume exploration around 3rd person could be seen as a way to attract gamers over from titles like World of Tanks, this is legit train of thought when you consider this is a profit making endevour.

However. Russ goes on to mention while many people seemingly have requested 3rd person, Russ does give us the example of newer players struggling with the leg and torso controls. 3rd person makes is very obvious to the player. It could be used in a certain way to allow players to better understand and learn the game via a new player experience (NPE). It's been noted we probably will see deployable drones as a module. You could have say a 3rd person camera drone in the NPE, but it needs to be done in such a fashion as to lead the new players into 1st person mode. That is, to quote Paul, one of the pillars of MWO.

Am I against PGI exploring options around 3rd person, deploying it in such a way that can improve the NPE, and bring more people into the game? No. But can the NPE do this without 3rd person? Maybe, probably. PGI should feel free to explore stuff. The key point here however is that letting players come into MWO in a 3rd person fashion then say once they sign up for Community Warfare forcing them into 1st person, or having a click box option in the matchmaker, this is old news. If that is how it went then OK. I'm not gonna play 3rd person, but as long as you give us the options to play the game how we want to play it, then personally I am fine. I'm just worried about fragmenting the community. I think it should be avoided at all costs.

[ATao]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

For reference, we also strongly recommend listening to Russ’s comments, as he provides a clear case for our approach.

Thank you. I've already listened to the podcast and heared Russ' reasons for 3P view.

The main issue of his case is that new players with FPS only experience don't understand why their mech isn't turning in the direction they are looking and FP view isn't helping them to understand this separate "same as tank" principle.

Now let's break down this case. Our aim is to make it easy for new players to get accustomed with the game.

Yes 3P is one of the ways to achieve this as it increases situation awareness and shows "tank principle". But it's not the only way.

You can also make "arcade controls" and "simulation controls" options with "arcade" enabled by default. With "arcade" on your mech legs automatically follow the torso as it twists. With "simulation" you have it as it's now.

Then there's an even easier way. Create a "loading screen" to show when you are loading a map to play. Show useful tooltips for the game on it. Make a screen there showing a mech twisting it's torso and a tooltip describing that you move torso with a mouse and legs with "A" and "D" keys.

Either way the problem provided by the case is solved. And I bet there can be even more ways to help new players understand the ropes without severely affecting game balance. I don't really think that there's a good way to implement decent 3P camera without affecting the balance so almost any other solution is better.

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Over the course of development, we’ve had a huge number of requests for a 3^rd person camera option.

I bet those requests were made by people who are far from understanding the game balance design. On the other hand results of the well known poll are pretty obvious and can show you what your consumers are thinking.

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

MechWarrior Online is, and will always be, a game focused on 1st person combat in Mechs. That experience is sacrosanct to the classic Mechwarrior experience.

I really do hope that you'll stay true to this. I can't even stress enough how.

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

If we find that there is a relevant role for an optional 3^rd person camera mode, then then would simply be an additional option that, if you don’t want it, won’t affect you.

I believe that's really a hard aim to archive. If 3P view camera is too close or with limited functionality then it's pretty much unusable and unplayable. If it's something similar to WoT but with lower zoom out then it's providing FOV (even if small but still) advantages and affecting game balance.

I don't believe there's a good way to implement 3P without contradicting "FP is sacrosanct" statement. And separating the player queues like "for 1P" and "for 3P" is a bad idea like any community separations (don't forget we'll be getting USA\EU separation in nearby future). That's why I think that it's better to use other methods to help new players accommodate. Hence NO TO 3P.

Edited by Alexander Malthus, 17 November 2012 - 02:51 AM.

[DrBunji]

- And thats exactly why I asked for an "unambigous" answer to this whole malarky.

[Thomas Covenant]

Crayzed Lyon, on 17 November 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Why not? It's the beta. Let's try out 3rd person for a bit and see how it goes

That's actually a pretty good point.

[David Decoster]

Ok PGI, no problem. Easy fix: give the WoW-kiddies their 3P view at the cost of NO XP and NO C-Bill gain, and in trial Mechs only. They'll either learn to play or ADD their way back to "Genericuberl33tFPS Online". Which is where they can stay, thank you very much.

[Mute82]

Dear MWO Team,

Why are you even concidering 3rd person view. From reading the forums for the past 3 days it is obvious that the majority of the player base does not want this. Instead of waseting your time and the players money on this BAD idea focus on delivering new content, activating servers outside North America etc. Because in the long run this is what will make this game successful and bring in money.
If you want to help new players get startet make tutorials. If they still have trouble playing the game after the tutorials maybe they should not play this game at all. This game supposed to be a simulater not a 3rd person arcade shooter. If you have players that want a arcade shooter maybe you (PGI) should make a whole new game for them, but please do not ruine a good game you have so far for the rest of us.
The only relevent use for 3rd person view is in spectator mode ONLY.

[Wolf Ender]

I really think MWO needs some type of PvE grinding. It would be a good way to help test a new mech config, and give people something to do if they aren't feeling particularly competitive but just want to stomp around for five or ten minutes. give us a few tanks to blow up, some infantry to step on, maybe a trial cicada to blow the legs off of. that seems to be the right place for 3rd person view IMHO.

i would like to see a 3rd person in there somewhere just because i think it is more fun to see the mech, but i agree with most people that it should be kept far away from competitive play.

[Caswallon]

OK I wanted to make a knee jerk "oh No!" post along with many others. But there appears to be too much trolling and scaremongering in this thread for any actual discussion.

Personally, though my gut is not thrilled at the idea of 3rd person, I think all we can do is see what the heck they mean in practice and then comment on that not on what we imagine is going to happen - for good or ill.

I seem to remember in one online portion of a previous MW game 3pv was a player set option for whomever hosted the game... That I could live with. But as we have no dratted idea from the OP (nor re listening to the podcast - else I missed it) exactly what this threads about all we are doing is exercising our blood pressure.

I came here to relax and have fun, anyone else?

[John MatriX82]

Seriously.. NO. And this announcement doesn't say ANYTHING.

[SplinterMD]

• Splitting a community is BAD
  
• Sacrificing the core immersion of your game is BAD
  
• Adding a game breaking feature and thinking it wont affect balance is BAD
  
• Dumbing down a game to increase "accessibility" instead of adding a Tutorial and fixing the menus is BAD
  
• Going against the core gamers and main supporters of a F2P game is REALLY BAD

[David Decoster]

Oh well, at least there's MechWarrior Tactics to look forward to.

[Hellboy561]

I'm liking the ideas for a 3rd person view in training, but on the battlefield you are just going to ruin the experience for all the fans that refuse to play 3rd person because this is supposed to be Mech Simulation. We aint playing no Hawken down here guys. But if you really wanna know, just put it to the vote. Send everyone on your mailing list an email, those who don't respond have no say but then you appeal to the masses. Love your fans PGI, because we love you!!

[CGB AKTEP]

Emm... that's strange what I hear. The developers should know if adding 3PV will affect balance, so I don't think they'll just put a checkbox there. It looks like we're getting something for 1PV. Easy enough. For example, if playing 3PV will bring you reduced HUD, it will be acceptable only for taking screenshots or getting used to. OR if playing 1PV will get you some advantages of HUD - back camera, mech damage and enemy mech damage panels, maybe even minimap enabled just inside the mech, it will be just fine. Credits and XP cut maybe... There are so many ways of making 3PV useful for starters ONLY, why do you think that developers will ruin the game instead of making it better? Most of things done since early versions are good. Do you really think these guys will suddenly make something that will obviously scare half of audience away?

[VikingLordMikal]

i'm sorry that you in the admin believe that the 3rd person view is good for this the most exciting version of Mech warrior i have played. The Idea of making a FPS based game in to an ECS(everybody can see) game is the most disavantaged thought your Idolic minds have to offer in a very History Based Game of mor then 20 years. If you belive that 3rd person is good for the MWO patrons you are wrong. For the simple fact that most of the Players have been in the game for 20+years.
CoD: Modern warfare is an fps with no option to 3rd person view look it up dummy before you ruin another game for losers to play easyer.

[KharnZor]

AS Carnage, on 17 November 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

If the noobs need third person view, give them a training map and third person to learn how to play, but keep it out of real combat. If PGI is so intent on making third person, then have the hud turn off in third person so you gain no advantage in using it. 3rd person with a hud would destroy the spirit of a 1st person mech game and then PGI will have failed in the endeavor to make a true Mechwarrior experience. I didn't become a founder so I could be ignored by PGI and I am sure the majority of founders feel the same. I would ask PGI to put it to a real community vote, because in the end we are the ones who make the game successed or fail. I think there are much more things that PGI could be spending their develpoment time on that would serve the game better.

Sums up my feelings 100%

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Boswelli, on 16 November 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

Well, the holy inquisition has spoken - burn all those heretics who pray to the wrong god

true the Mind of your Minority ! the Conquista of the 3PV Noobs

I have the feeling that one wants to attract Wot players and committed to this ... well, then let the WOT forums storm, and there after Mechs and 1PV cry, let's see if the like so open to loud roaring intolerant minorities small war pigs have sind.Was 3VP play all these kind of a problem with it in FPV? run it in real life with a cam on the *** by reality, or are they constantly nacistisch only admire their super studs Mech and awesome badge? I should know as my mech looks and does not see it constantly, and I'm not so nacistic constantly have to admire my appearance ... all these tunnels 3PV but continued her great play Wot or their arcade and console games or switch to Amored Core Online, abe rnicht every game on their needs beige handle, even if they were different in nature from the beginning, and people have paid exactly that there is no 3PV

§VP in a Recodercam or Playoff is ,or only in a Training course ist ok , or as Drones ..all other ..No way!seeing by MW4 and the splitting community

Edited by CSJ Ranger, 17 November 2012 - 04:32 AM.

[Axxer]

I have not played for a week now, and if 3rd person comes in, im out. Simple as that.
I can accept a training ground with 3rd person or spectator mode. But if you even implement it as a optional thing in matchmaking you are splitting the playerbase witch is bad (for obvius reasons).
And youre spending our money and time on stuffs the majority of the playerbase dont ever wanna see, you think that is a good idea?

[SvennK]

I will add my voice because I can, and because I invested $120 in this game.

I do not want 3rd person view. It will break the game if you are able to just slightly look around corners, hills or behind you.