2926 replies to this topic

[Wildcat]

Gunny McDuck, on 18 November 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

Hmmmmm... In the "future", multi-multi million c-bill mechs, the pinnacle of engineering and technology.... Don't have 360 degree radar, rear view cameras, or lots of other things you think they'd have. Ever hear of Lost technology, or LOStech? So yeah....no.....

And we are talking about a game that was made up decades ago without any thought about future (Real Time) Technological Advances.... some of the things we have today was not even thought of decades ago


and again... I see no Advantage that anyone could gain from a 3rd Person View....

Edited by Wildcat, 18 November 2012 - 01:06 PM.

[repete]

Mitigation regarding 3rd person view (Which I do not support. 3rd person that is, not this mitigation):

An in-game broadcast stating "Player 'X' is using 3rd person view". Watch everyone hunt that person down.

Or a C-Bill / XP penalty for using it.

Hey. You can use 3rd person view if you want...But there are consequences.

PS - Any citation of support for / against (Be it forums or emails, etc.) is irrelevant based on the (low) percentage of the player base who participate in forums or send emails. The only real measure of support for or against third person would be an in-game poll. The challenge there, like any voting, would be addressing low information voters.

Edited by repete, 18 November 2012 - 01:33 PM.

[DrBunji]

Wildcat, on 18 November 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

. I see no Advantage that anyone could gain from a 3rd Person View....

What are you actually serious? How about completely negating the way weapons screw with the pilots view? How about the fact that you can see around corners, and over hills, without exposing yourself? How about it being a deathknell to any mechs that rely on being able to outfox a larger mech in a fight? How about the general boost to all kinds of factors affecting situational awareness?

I mean, it's like you've never played a single videogame in your life.

[Keyne]

I love this game, I really do. It's a beautiful modernization of a great franchise.

If I have to play against others who can use the 3rd person view, I'm going to drop playing it immediately.

[Vila deVere]

Thanks for the reply. But please, please, PLEASE, do not let 3rd person view take the place of proper tutorials and training missions. What you have here is good, it's just so very incoimplete.

[Joe Mallad]

We have not heard yet just how a 3rd person view could be implemented so lets not get the pitchforks out just yet guys. With that said... the only thing I would be ok with using a 3rd person view on is controlling your scout drones and things like that.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 18 November 2012 - 01:39 PM.

[repete]

Keyne, on 18 November 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

I love this game, I really do. It's a beautiful modernization of a great franchise. If I have to play against others who can use the 3rd person view, I'm going to drop playing it immediately.

I don't support 3rd person, but with all due respect, I don't believe you or anyone else making this statement.

However. IF there was an organised opposition / protest to it including a site / poll and the statement from the opposition is either A - "We will not spend money on this game" OR B - "We will not play this game" (This has two different effects, both in the case of sufficient numbers: A = financial impact. B = Financial impact and lower numbers playing).

If PGI implement 3rd person I will be looking to organise this if someone else doesn't do it first.

Edited by repete, 18 November 2012 - 01:40 PM.

[Bad Electric]

MFToast, on 18 November 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Even hardcore jet simulators have a 3rd person view. Get over it.

Notice title "newbie" to forums and 8 whole posts.

nuff said

[Gunny McDuck]

Wildcat, on 18 November 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

I see no Advantage that anyone could gain from a 3rd Person View....

Could you use this to see around corners?
Yes.

Could you use this to see over hills/mountains/terrain to see what is on the other side?
Yes.

Could you use this to theoretically see what is behind or around you where your radar doesn't work?
Yes.


Can you honestly say that any of these things are not advantages?

[Wildcat]

DrBunji, on 18 November 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

What are you actually serious? How about completely negating the way weapons screw with the pilots view? How about the fact that you can see around corners, and over hills, without exposing yourself? How about it being a deathknell to any mechs that rely on being able to outfox a larger mech in a fight? How about the general boost to all kinds of factors affecting situational awareness? I mean, it's like you've never played a single videogame in your life.

You are over reacting....... we need to see this 3rd person view in game first before anyone can make judgements about it....

if the 3rd Person view does not pick up undetected units, then I see no problem whatsoever.... seeing around corners is not really that advantageous....

If the 3rd Person view is just taking computerized data and making a 3rd person view from the Mechs instruments and data, then i see no problem...


You seem to forget other Mech games had a Camera View of your Target Mech.... and guess what ??? you can see its position and its direction and movement on the camera view....

Edited by Wildcat, 18 November 2012 - 02:08 PM.

[CarnifexMaximus]

Please no. Please! I generally am really un-invested about devs tinkering with their game after I play it and get used to it. I guess I come from the old school where the gamer had virtually zero contact with devs. But this is devastating. Really it is. If it must exist make only in some kind of tutorial mode.

If I recall correctly Russ mentioned the main motivation for 3rd person was to help with new user experience. If this is truly the reason why 3rd person is being considered please take the time and make a tutorial mode. MWO is shaping up very nicely to be a fun competitive mech combat pseudo-simulator. Why spoil it after you have come this far.

Edited by CarnifexMaximus, 18 November 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[shabowie]

MFToast, on 18 November 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Even hardcore jet simulators have a 3rd person view. Get over it.

Many sim communities play with no external views and other realism settings enforced.

The question here is if it is worth MWO having a fractured player base (best case scenario) or a situation where you are forced to use 3rd person to compete on a level playing field (worst case).

[Gunny McDuck]

Wildcat, on 18 November 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

seeing around corners is not really that advantageous....

Are you kidding?
Your forum account says you've been here for over a year, so you're clearly not new to MWO....

I don't see any way that being able to see around corners and see something you wouldn't be able to see from inside of your cockpit wouldn't be an advantage.

I can't tell you the number of times I've ordered the rest of the lance to crest a hill that we didn't have scouts on/over.....and to my surprise I see a lovely firing line of 3-6 mechs all dumping concentrated fire into my Atlas.


3rd person camera would have allowed me to see over that hill.

Change the scenario a little bit and I can see this having profound advantages on the 3 and 4 line advance to the lower city base on River City, where it is really easy to hide between buildings....


No advantage by seeing things that you shouldn't be able to see.......you must be joking.



This is assuming you're not conducting an elaborate troll of all of us, and if you are, I must say good show old chap.
If you're not trolling, and you're totally serious.......wow.

[SteelJaws]

Put 3rd person in, but limit it.

I.e. Have it be a MODULE that you can unlock with GXP, and when you use it it launches a UAV into the air, about 30-40 feet above your mech, and have it be on a tow-line, so its always connected to your mech, kinda like the Command UAV that was in the trailer, but not as high.

Secondly, be able to toggle between the 1st person, and that view. Now, here comes they way to keep pop-tarting out, NO CROSSHAIR, you can get a visual of targets over a hill for spotting, and be able to target them, but you will not be able to get a lock on them, should you have LRM's yourself as no Crosshair.

This way, those that want 3rd person can have it, and those that don't, don't need to since its a module.

[Gunny McDuck]

SteelJaws, on 18 November 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

SNIP -- Stuff about UAV

This wouldn't actually be too bad.

Only problem is if the whole idea is to make it easier to see for new players or anyone else who can't pilot their mechs for **** is likely to make them whine even more since they have to work up to having such a tool/upgrade/add-on.

[repete]

SteelJaws, on 18 November 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

...a UAV into the air...

Yup. A UAV is an interesting idea. But does not equal:

A - What seems to be the stated goal of helping new players
B - Something that everyone gets automatically for free

I don't think there would be (as much) opposition to a UAV. I also don't think a UAV (As described) is anywhere near what they are considering implementing.

Edited by repete, 18 November 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[Lugh]

Wildcat, on 18 November 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

And we are talking about a game that was made up decades ago without any thought about future (Real Time) Technological Advances.... some of the things we have today was not even thought of decades ago and again... I see no Advantage that anyone could gain from a 3rd Person View....

I find your lack of imagination disturbing.

1) See around corners for target locks in safety from return fire.

2) See around corners in safety to garner intel of unit composition before committing.

And these are the most common complaints.

[Asmudius Heng]

The thing annoying me the most is not 3rd person but the way the developers are talking to the community about it.

Contradicting posts and messages.

We are looking into it
We wont use it
We are worried about the new player experience
We will make sure it will not give an advantage
etc etc

People are not idiots. Talk to us straight. If you said this game will not survive unless we add 3rd person view i would understand. I would be happy enough to divide 3rd person form 1st person people even though it splits the community which is a bad thing. However if it means keeping the game afloat then by all means.

However the only credible thing i got out of this was the new player experience. I agree, the new player experience is bloody terrible.

But as so many people have already said there are a dozen ways to make this better including:

in depth in game tutorials
paperdoll representations on hud
more??

As experienced game developers i am certain PGI are not dumb enough to have this escape them.

So what the hell is the reasoning PGI. Come clean, be transparent and I think you will find most people are very forgiving, but they are VERY good at getting worked up when the corporate ******** is laid down so thick and obvious it chokes.

[SteelJaws]

Yeah, I know people will whine.

I put it like that for a plausible way of introducing it.

Well, If its for "NEW" people, then Trial mechs get a regular 3rd person view, once you BUY your first mech, its a MODULE you need to buy. That way you can cut your teeth and learn how to drive, but by the time you get to a mech you own, then you should of played enough to have a clue, and if you want 3rd person again, buy the module.

[Gunny McDuck]

SteelJaws, on 18 November 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Yeah, I know people will whine. I put it like that for a plausible way of introducing it. Well, If its for "NEW" people, then Trial mechs get a regular 3rd person view, once you BUY your first mech, its a MODULE you need to buy. That way you can cut your teeth and learn how to drive, but by the time you get to a mech you own, then you should of played enough to have a clue, and if you want 3rd person again, buy the module.

If it was done that way, you'd likely see folks staying in trial mechs and trying to use the free UAV add-on....
But at the end of the day I'm OK with that as I personally think the trial mechs suck.