2926 replies to this topic

[Terran123rd]

Vedic, on 08 April 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

I wonder if they could enable it during Training Grounds, and then also for the unranked scrimmage matches they've mentioned incorporating in the future. That way people can have their spectator/3rd person mode for practice and for "cinematic" highlight reels with friends, but it won't affect actual ranked gameplay. This idea has probably been suggested a million times, but it gets my vote.

Thank you! For the record, I'm 100% in favor of 3rd person, but I've never once thought that it should extend into CW. CW should be first person only.

[DrSmurfy]

Vedic, on 08 April 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Then you have problems of "ghosting" or lookouts giving advice over Vent. People will exploit it, and that's why we can't have nice things.

I wonder if they could enable it during Training Grounds, and then also for the unranked scrimmage matches they've mentioned incorporating in the future. That way people can have their spectator/3rd person mode for practice and for "cinematic" highlight reels with friends, but it won't affect actual ranked gameplay. This idea has probably been suggested a million times, but it gets my vote.

I completely agree with you on the Training Grounds, I think surely later on in the game there will be a fair few of people wanted to film or photo their mechs. I'd love to see mine on the field moving about, blasting away. I agree with you, that gets my vote! Then atleast there is no real problem with the game at all.

I think there wont be a great problem with ghosting however, people do it enough already! Just report where & when you've just been killed, which way that mech was headed last. Already then you have an idea of where that mech is anyway.

Maybe though the 3rd person isn't an entire zoom out seeing the whole mech, maybe an upper torso?

[grayson marik]

Vedic, on 08 April 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Then you have problems of "ghosting" or lookouts giving advice over Vent. People will exploit it, and that's why we can't have nice things.

I wonder if they could enable it during Training Grounds, and then also for the unranked scrimmage matches they've mentioned incorporating in the future. That way people can have their spectator/3rd person mode for practice and for "cinematic" highlight reels with friends, but it won't affect actual ranked gameplay. This idea has probably been suggested a million times, but it gets my vote.

Just delay the "playback" of such backseet driving for 15 to 20 sec. and it is worthless while still providing nice eyecandy^^

[Snoopy]

Maybe someone already mentioned this ...

What if the target audience is no longer restricted on PC gamers only ?
What if there are plans to expand MWO to an already established gaming community that is used to 3rd person view ?
Like console systems such as XBox and PlayStation ?

Would 3rd person not make sense in this scenario ?
Just a thought ....



Sorry for grammar, typing on mobile

[Mechteric]

Snoopy, on 09 April 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

Like console systems such as XBox and PlayStation ?

Well we already know Microsoft would never let this game go to playstation, and the only way it would likely go to Xbox is if Microsoft helped fund that initiative for their next console or something? Guess that might depend on how popular MWO gets beyond release...

[Terran123rd]

CapperDeluxe, on 09 April 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Well we already know Microsoft would never let this game go to playstation, and the only way it would likely go to Xbox is if Microsoft helped fund that initiative for their next console or something? Guess that might depend on how popular MWO gets beyond release...

I'd like to go on record saying that an Xbox port of MWO would be awesome. Playing one of my favorite games on a platform where I don't have to worry about graphics cards or CPU or anything like that? I would force-feed both Microsoft and PGI money.

Edited by Terran123rd, 09 April 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[HarmAssassin]

3rd person view will kill this game, as for porting it to the console-kiddies.... no. They wreck every game that that has ever been done to.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

CapperDeluxe, on 09 April 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Well we already know Microsoft would never let this game go to playstation, and the only way it would likely go to Xbox is if Microsoft helped fund that initiative for their next console or something? Guess that might depend on how popular MWO gets beyond release...

how do you bring all the functions on a gamepad? quite to ÜR, diescwheigen that dei technology of consoles for this game is not ggeignet where even many PCs already have difficulties ... Mechassult is good for consoles, and it would be Hawken.

[clockwerkninja]

I would have to go on the side of agreeing that 3rd person should be added ,those who want the option should be welcome to it. I would rather use 3rd person in a smaller mech and 1st person in anything big.

I am a spending customer(spending to much some times) and my vote is for adding 3rd person. Those who want everyone limited just because they prefer it one way,or to preserve some kind of "gamer honor" are ridiculous.

[Connor Davion]

Just FWIW unless they offer 3rd person and 1st person views in completely segregated drops I will stop playing (if this is not possible then I vote 1000% no). I will never use 3rd person and refuse to play if others in the same drop can use it while I am using my 1st person view. Just my 2 cents on this ongoing debate.

[Alois Hammer]

Mordynak, on 31 March 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

They also stated that it would be entirely OPTIONAL. Giving players the choice to use or play against players that use 3rd person.

Yep...the same "they" also stated, with no ambiguity, that "they" wouldn't add coolant flushing to the game. You saw how "they" stuck to "their" word on that one, right?

Quote

Seriously people, quit the stupid moaning and arguements.

What argument could be any more stupid than "The guys who said they wouldn't add coolant flush then added it anyway said they won't mix first and third person so I'm sure they won't?"

[evlkenevl]

Can't stress enough how bad I think this would be. Nobody needs it, even console players. This is something that would give a large tactical advantage over people that didn't use/want it. People would be forced to use it or lose to those that do. Can't separate them or you divide the player base.

I feel that Cool Shots do the same thing, letting people with hot builds "Superman" for a brief period when they shouldn't be able to. That said, the whole trust issue over Cool Shots has a lot of folks doubting that PGI will ever hold to a course, such as "if you don't want it, it won't affect you". I didn't want them, got told I wouldn't have to deal with them, but here we are.

This is a simulation, but any sim is confined to an environment that doesn't quite duplicate what it simulates. MWO is simulating an environment that doesn't add up anyway. Sure, mechs of the future would have several camera views. They would also have one-shot-kill weapons that could attack targets at great distances like modern militaries do.

[chewie]

Hmm

would you drive a car while sitting on the roof? No.

So why do you want to drive a mech while sitting on its shoulder/head.

You wanna get that *outside* feel, go ride a bike

WoT would not have worked if you were stuck playing as a driver gunner all the time because you'd never see the guy sneaking up on your right side, until he hit you with a few shells. Heck, there are times when that happens now anyway.

MWO doesn't suffer from that issue because your pov is looking out of a big *glass* window where you can see everything coming.


Its fine as it is, we don't really need 3rd person view, as it cannot offer any benefit to the gameplay, beyond allowing you to get an early look around a building or outcrop of rock.

If that happens you'll find a lot of folks playing musical statues. Move to a point on the map where you can surprise someone {music stops}, wait for them to show up (because you've already seen them coming so you can reasonably expect them to come round that corner){music starts again} then hit em with everything you got in 1 salvo, aiming for the head hoping for an instakill.
Relocate and repeat.

[Ohari]

just tossing this out there....
I remember watching those vids that were out to promote MWO..ya know the ones that showed the mech popping out a UAV. Why not implement 3rd person in that fashion? A module that you purchase as a consumable. When you use it you get a top down view only that you can control for say 20-30 secs or until shot down.

With this method you will be able to see "3rd" person but not be able to attack with this view but still get info. Maybe even let the targeting info be shared with the team.

That being said.. I do not like the idea of traditional 3rd person view ..over the shoulder look. I think it takes away from the feeling of piloting a mech as well as giving potential unfair advantages.

[0I0]

Alois Hammer, on 14 April 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

Yep...the same "they" also stated, with no ambiguity, that "they" wouldn't add coolant flushing to the game. You saw how "they" stuck to "their" word on that one, right?

We've also seen that "it" as in "the" coolant flush has "changed" next to nothing in relation to any "real" advantage/"disadvantage" at "any" appreciable "rate" "."

What argument could be any more stupid than "The guys who said they wouldn't add coolant flush then added it anyway said they won't mix first and third person so I'm sure they won't?"

"also" how is drawing lines of "conclusion" between something completely irrelevant "like" coolant flush "and" 3rd "person" view in "any" way adding to the argument against something terrible and game changing "like" "3"rd person view. IMO pick your fights, and find arguments that work against 3rd person view, and stop being stuck in another game and complaining about "cool"ant "flu"sh". When obviously the real fight, is the change that utterly changes combat in ways that are unfavorable for a team/skill/realism orientated specialty fps.

[Target Rich]

Wow....lets see some basic market demographics here...
This game requires CryEngine 3...and only play on Desktop and Laptop PC's that have serious graphic card capability....Market reduced to 30-40 percent of PC base.

Game has a huge learning curve...and fundamentally discourages new players because the concept of "earning" your basic units is the exact opposite of any other MMP game out there and the opposite of any previous MW game....Market reduced to 30 percent of remaining 30-40 percent of PC base.

Game has a first person shooter view requirement...just like other games...which most players absolutely HATE....that's why all successful FPS games have third person view...Market reduced to 30 percent of remaining 5-10 percent of PC market...

Current game is perfect for obsessive compulsive mecha fanatics...who buy all kinds of stupid equipment...are willing to pay litereally hundreds of dollars in extra equipment like game mouses..obsolete joysticks...etc....and engage in some fairly substantial coding to get said equipment...plus pay beacoup money...like a hundred bucks or so just to get that competitive edge in a beta.

Oh...btw...I have been playing MW since the pen and paper days of the 1970's I have beta tested MW3, MW4, MC1 and MC2 and Played Chromehounds (MW5) until they closed the server on us.

Not ONE SINGLE MECHA GAME HAS EVER HAD COCKPIT MODE EXCLUSIVELY...because it is a seriously stupid way to play.

I have no problem with a matching engine that enables the ultra obsessive mech simulation people to don their tin foil hats and take their hundreds and thousands dollars of add on computer equipment and thousands of dollars in high end multi screen graphic work stations ...and have their fun...BUT

I GET SERIOUSLY OFFENDED by these kind of fools waxing eloquent about the "purity" of their style of play...

This game is based on battletech....I've red the novels...played the pen and paper game....

If you're goal is to simulate the true battletech piloting experience...then the current cockpit view is the OPPOSITE of battletech. A pilot in a battletech mech puts on a neurohelmet...his nervious system is directly linked to the mech and its sensors...it in essense becomes his body.... That is a 360 degree view...and probably best simulated by a 3rd person viewpoint...

The current mickey mouse viewpoint that is restricted by a forward view out of a slow moving cockpit window...is more like a ww2 tank than battletech...or a fighter plane...although they have better vision capability than we see in MWO.

Have the decency to admit your arrogance...there are many styles of playing a fps....which this game is NOT supposed to simulate.... Instead...this is SUPPOSED to be both tactical and commander view...like MW4 there should be the capability for a unit team to be able to easily highlight capture points and give orders....of course this subsumes a turnkey voice communication with the game...which is why Microsoft ported the whole franchise over to the XBOX 360 in the first place...

So to quote Hamlet "There is more in heaven and earth, my dear Horatio, than is contained in your philosophy..."

[Unclecid]

Target Rich, on 15 April 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Oh...btw...I have been playing MW since the pen and paper days of the 1970's

strange as the MW pnp rpg game didnt come out until '86 and the tabletop game started out as battledroids in '84.

Quote

If you're goal is to simulate the true battletech piloting experience...then the current cockpit view is the OPPOSITE of battletech. A pilot in a battletech mech puts on a neurohelmet...his nervious system is directly linked to the mech and its sensors...it in essense becomes his body.... That is a 360 degree view...and probably best simulated by a 3rd person viewpoint...

wrong that isnt how a neurohelmet works:

from Sarna-
The neurohelmet reads the brainwaves of the pilot. The basic model of neurohelmet focuses on the human sense of balance. With a multi-ton gyroscope and powerful myomers in the limbs, BattleMechs can stand upright and remain balanced on their own, but the limited intelligence of BattleMechs and natural conservatism of their control computers means they often need to be told when it is acceptable to be off balance, which may be helpful in battle as MechWarriors push their machines. The neurohelmet also provides feedback to the MechWarrior, helping them retain their own sense of balance as they sit 10 to 12 meters in the air atop a swaying, weaving bipedal giant robot.
More advanced neurohelmets provide additional input and output beyond a sense of balance, though they never amount to "Direct Neural Interface" technology. A neurohelmet can provide the MechWarrior with a kinesthetic sense - a sense of how the 'Mech's limbs are positioned - and Star League aerospace fighter neurohelmets served to provide a weak virtual reality to the pilots. In return, MechWarriors can use neurohelmets to provide some clarification the simple commands they are supplying to a 'Mech through joysticks, triggers, and pedals.
Early neurohelmets had to be carefully calibrated to the brain of the pilot. If the calibration was not exact (or if there was the wrong pilot wearing the helmet), this could lead to a host of effects, including headache, dizzy sight, balance problems and disturbing buzzing inside your head (a very weak buzzing remains even if the calibration is correct). Such out-dated neurohelmets are still in use in Clan Sibkos and in old 'Mechs in the Periphery. Modern neurohelmets are more advanced and no longer depend on a specific pilot.



what you describe is more akin to a Direct neural interface then the helmet used in the inner sphere.

Edited by Unclecid, 15 April 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[chewie]

Target Rich, on 15 April 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Wow....lets see some basic market demographics here...
This game requires CryEngine 3...and only play on Desktop and Laptop PC's that have serious graphic card capability....Market reduced to 30-40 percent of PC base.

Game has a huge learning curve...and fundamentally discourages new players because the concept of "earning" your basic units is the exact opposite of any other MMP game out there and the opposite of any previous MW game....Market reduced to 30 percent of remaining 30-40 percent of PC base.

Game has a first person shooter view requirement...just like other games...which most players absolutely HATE....that's why all successful FPS games have third person view...Market reduced to 30 percent of remaining 5-10 percent of PC market...

Current game is perfect for obsessive compulsive mecha fanatics...who buy all kinds of stupid equipment...are willing to pay litereally hundreds of dollars in extra equipment like game mouses..obsolete joysticks...etc....and engage in some fairly substantial coding to get said equipment...plus pay beacoup money...like a hundred bucks or so just to get that competitive edge in a beta.

Oh...btw...I have been playing MW since the pen and paper days of the 1970's I have beta tested MW3, MW4, MC1 and MC2 and Played Chromehounds (MW5) until they closed the server on us.

Not ONE SINGLE MECHA GAME HAS EVER HAD COCKPIT MODE EXCLUSIVELY...because it is a seriously stupid way to play.

I have no problem with a matching engine that enables the ultra obsessive mech simulation people to don their tin foil hats and take their hundreds and thousands dollars of add on computer equipment and thousands of dollars in high end multi screen graphic work stations ...and have their fun...BUT

I GET SERIOUSLY OFFENDED by these kind of fools waxing eloquent about the "purity" of their style of play...

This game is based on battletech....I've red the novels...played the pen and paper game....

If you're goal is to simulate the true battletech piloting experience...then the current cockpit view is the OPPOSITE of battletech. A pilot in a battletech mech puts on a neurohelmet...his nervious system is directly linked to the mech and its sensors...it in essense becomes his body.... That is a 360 degree view...and probably best simulated by a 3rd person viewpoint...

The current mickey mouse viewpoint that is restricted by a forward view out of a slow moving cockpit window...is more like a ww2 tank than battletech...or a fighter plane...although they have better vision capability than we see in MWO.

Have the decency to admit your arrogance...there are many styles of playing a fps....which this game is NOT supposed to simulate.... Instead...this is SUPPOSED to be both tactical and commander view...like MW4 there should be the capability for a unit team to be able to easily highlight capture points and give orders....of course this subsumes a turnkey voice communication with the game...which is why Microsoft ported the whole franchise over to the XBOX 360 in the first place...

So to quote Hamlet "There is more in heaven and earth, my dear Horatio, than is contained in your philosophy..."

The only thing to come from this argument is that the game needs 360 vision, therefore a lil screen showing whats behind you.

Nothing you have said is a valid argument for why this game *needs* 3rd person.

Just saying that all other mech games have had 3rd person, is not enough.

Saying that the majority of gamers hate 1st person and so to get more people to play you must have 3rd person, is not enough.

It may make it more attractive to them, but as I said earlier.
You wouldn't drive a car sitting on the roof. You don't drive a mech sitting on its head.

The why's and wherefores of how they have implemented the way you view things in game is to make it a simulation, and not a pc port of tabletop.

But in such a simulation, you'd still be inside the cockpit looking out.

3rd person will only cheapen the experience for all who play.

If I have to look around the corner, then I expect to expose my mech. With 3rd person, I wouldn't need to. I'd be cheating really.

So, please, do not keep harping on about how we need it because it was in other games.

The Bombast laser was in MW4. You don't hear people crying out for that particular weapon now do you.



Oh, and chrome hounds has nothing to do with MW at any point. Its just a game where you run round in a *mech*. Nothing more. If you played it that long fella, you should know better than to bring it up as MW5 when it wasn't.

[CutterWolf]

Target Rich, on 15 April 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Wow....lets see some basic market demographics here...
This game requires CryEngine 3...and only play on Desktop and Laptop PC's that have serious graphic card capability....Market reduced to 30-40 percent of PC base.

Game has a huge learning curve...and fundamentally discourages new players because the concept of "earning" your basic units is the exact opposite of any other MMP game out there and the opposite of any previous MW game....Market reduced to 30 percent of remaining 30-40 percent of PC base.

Game has a first person shooter view requirement...just like other games...which most players absolutely HATE....that's why all successful FPS games have third person view...Market reduced to 30 percent of remaining 5-10 percent of PC market...

Current game is perfect for obsessive compulsive mecha fanatics...who buy all kinds of stupid equipment...are willing to pay litereally hundreds of dollars in extra equipment like game mouses..obsolete joysticks...etc....and engage in some fairly substantial coding to get said equipment...plus pay beacoup money...like a hundred bucks or so just to get that competitive edge in a beta.

Oh...btw...I have been playing MW since the pen and paper days of the 1970's I have beta tested MW3, MW4, MC1 and MC2 and Played Chromehounds (MW5) until they closed the server on us.

Not ONE SINGLE MECHA GAME HAS EVER HAD COCKPIT MODE EXCLUSIVELY...because it is a seriously stupid way to play.

I have no problem with a matching engine that enables the ultra obsessive mech simulation people to don their tin foil hats and take their hundreds and thousands dollars of add on computer equipment and thousands of dollars in high end multi screen graphic work stations ...and have their fun...BUT

I GET SERIOUSLY OFFENDED by these kind of fools waxing eloquent about the "purity" of their style of play...

This game is based on battletech....I've red the novels...played the pen and paper game....

If you're goal is to simulate the true battletech piloting experience...then the current cockpit view is the OPPOSITE of battletech. A pilot in a battletech mech puts on a neurohelmet...his nervious system is directly linked to the mech and its sensors...it in essense becomes his body.... That is a 360 degree view...and probably best simulated by a 3rd person viewpoint...

The current mickey mouse viewpoint that is restricted by a forward view out of a slow moving cockpit window...is more like a ww2 tank than battletech...or a fighter plane...although they have better vision capability than we see in MWO.

Have the decency to admit your arrogance...there are many styles of playing a fps....which this game is NOT supposed to simulate.... Instead...this is SUPPOSED to be both tactical and commander view...like MW4 there should be the capability for a unit team to be able to easily highlight capture points and give orders....of course this subsumes a turnkey voice communication with the game...which is why Microsoft ported the whole franchise over to the XBOX 360 in the first place...

So to quote Hamlet "There is more in heaven and earth, my dear Horatio, than is contained in your philosophy..."

Wow, where do I start, let's see..... "Game has a huge learning curve" Really? I guess so if you have some kind of learning disability but for most everyone else its pretty easy to get the hang of.

"Game has a first person shooter view requirement...just like other games...which most players absolutely HATE....that's why all successful FPS games have third person view" Again, Really? I guess you have never played Battlefield or Planetside 2? Both of which are first person shooters and are highly successful games!

And Oh...btw...you have "not" been playing MW since the pen and paper days of the 1970's. I have pointed this out for you in another thread and its been pointed out for you again in this one. (1984-1986 are a far cry from the 1970's)


Let me rephrase this next one for you, "Not ONE SINGLE MECHA GAME HAS EVER HAD COCKPIT MODE EXCLUSIVELY...because it is a seriously stupid way to play." I think you meant to say that, "first person view is the serious way to play and 3rd person is just plain stupid."

[Grandmaster Ramrod]

Target Rich, on 15 April 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

...that's why all successful FPS games have third person view...

What. Stopped reading right here.