299 replies to this topic

[Mechteric]

Good news, you don't need to Elite your mechs to be a good mech jock! Its only there to get that extra umph out of the mech(s) that you intend to run a majority of time.

[Dayuhan]

There is both a monetary and an in-game reason behind the 'mech variant requirement for unlocking the Expert skills on a 'mech.

The monetary side should be self-evident; PGI needs to make money on this game. One of the ways they make money is through the purchase of 'Mech bays for MC - where MC can only be purchased for real money. They also make money on the customization of the purchased 'mechs and so there is an incentive to keep the player buying new 'mechs so they can spend money for more 'mech bays and to customize the 'mechs they purchase.

Now to the in-game reason for requiring three 'mech variants to become an expert. It is very simple to acquire all the basic skills on a 'mech chassis in a few hours of play. If the Expert skills for the 'mech chassis' were available on a 'mech by 'mech basis then everyone would quickly max out all the skills on their favorite 'mechs at which time one of the incentives for using the 'mech is reduced. We see this all the time in other games where players will max a character in the game and then they will start a new character because the maxed character is no longer fun to play - part of the fun was getting new skills and experience for the character.

By delaying the expert skills of the 'mech until you have three 'mech variants it keeps you interested in playing the 'mech and also forces you to try out different loadouts for the 'mech, which of course costs c-bills, thus providing a useful sink for all those c-bills you are earning in-game.

[Vincent Lynch]

CapperDeluxe, on 14 January 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Good news, you don't need to Elite your mechs to be a good mech jock! Its only there to get that extra umph out of the mech(s) that you intend to run a majority of time.

I do elite my mechs. Because, each achievement alone might not mean much, But having all 14 achievements on a chassis makes really a difference in battle.
Also, free 2 play does not mean that the devs work for free. They do an awesome job considering how few of them PGI has, and they should get their money, and also it's good that PGI charges for stuff because more money will make them develop faster.
The one thing which also bothers me though is that there should be 6 free Mechbays per account, not 4. Players should be able to level 2 Mechs for free without having to sell chassis.

[Athena Pryde]

I don't like the system of having to buy 3 variants but it seems this game copies World of Tanks in many ways instead of being more like previous Mechwarior titles.

World of Tanks you have to grind the tier 1 tank to unlock its upgrades on the way to unlock the tier 2 tank and then you have to unlock all the tier 2 tank upgrades on the way to unlocking the tier 3 tank and so on. Along the way there are lousy tanks that are just horrid you have to grind through. So you have to suffer through tanks you don't like to play the one you like.

I don't like that either but its the way the games are made to make for more timesinks and possible profit as people pay to convert to free exp to get past tanks they don't like or unlock skills on mechs variants without playing them.

Edited by Athena Pryde, 14 January 2013 - 11:00 AM.

[Buzzkillin]

I voted no, because the way I see it, you're pushing the player to try different builds and variants, which is a good thing, giving that incentive. Take the hunchback variants, all of them are different and have different roles, so that can make the building and testing a mech's loadout fun. Though that may not be the same for everyone. If it anything, it only hurts the variants that are closely related in hard points to each other, but that can be also up to the player, depending how much they want to experiment. Currently I have two Dragons, 1N and 1C. And I created both differently because I don't want to play the same thing over again. Whenever I eventually pursue the third variant for Master and Elite unlocks, I will also make that Dragon different from my other two to have a different play style. I want to see what works and doesn't work. It builds a good incentive to take multiple variants and try new things, but that is up to the player if they want to try new things or do the same thing over again just for some small % benefits.

[Armorpiercer M82]

yes, its punishing. the other option could be , directly for MC. some would use it.

Edited by Armorpiercer M82, 14 January 2013 - 11:34 AM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

SilentSooYun, on 18 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

I agree. They could have done this a different way than forcing us to diversify just so we can specialise. How does that even make sense? I'd rather spend saddle time in a Mech I like rather than the closest compromise.

On the other hand, it does make an excellent C-Bill sink, and encourages us to buy MC for a quick Mech purchase.
So... financial/economy reasons, as well as a lack of imagination.

Ok so use YOUR imagination (since if you think the devs lack it, you must have some) and give us an alternative.

The vast majority of people bitching are saying the same thing over and over. Never a real suggestion, just griping.

Even the ones that recognize that the game needs a c-bill sink (no repair bills anymore remember?) and that the devs need a revenue stream or else the game goes bye bye still whine without offering up any suggestions.

Me? No I don't care for it. I suck enough with a mech I like, and put me in one I don't like, and well yay no repair bills and 100 xp for losing!! But I also am not a games developer so I assume they did what they felt was best for us and the game. By "the game" I mean for the meta-game and Piranha as they kinda need the game to work or else they are out of jobs....



**edit** Typos suck

Edited by Nick Makiaveli, 14 January 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[blood4blood]

I've enjoyed the challenge of using mechs I didn't think I would like, and I've been pleasantly surprised (and surprisingly disappointed) along the way. Example: My Cat C1 is OK, I thought I'd love my K2 but turns out I find it dissatisfying (very strong configs, but all of them leaving me wanting something more in terms of balance), and I've really enjoyed my C4 brawler - the one that I thought would be the weakest option of the three due to it's hardpoints. If there was no reason to buy the C4, I never would have, and I'd be missing out.

Also, grinding three mechs doesn't really take all that long IMHO. But I have a biased perspective, since I've been playing mech games and grinder MMO's both for years.

[pseudocoder]

CypherHalo, on 14 January 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Mechbays are an obvious cash grab and they are, to me, disgusting. They need to make money? How about make the game enjoyable enough that I will pay to buy a new mech rather then grind for it because I'm having such a good time.

Cash grab? More like coin grab. Isn't 300MP less than 2 USD?

Oh you mean mech bays are the only real reason you feel you need to buy MP, right? Yeah, well the game is only free if you play it a little bit. If you play it a lot you should have to pay at least something.

Edited by pseudocoder, 14 January 2013 - 02:36 PM.

[Antony Weiner]

CapperDeluxe, on 14 January 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Good news, you don't need to Elite your mechs to be a good mech jock! Its only there to get that extra umph out of the mech(s) that you intend to run a majority of time.

Some builds simply fail without that speed tweak.

E.g. 70.8 or 79 kph is a huge difference for an Awesome with LPLASs and SSRM 2s.

[CypherHalo]

pseudocoder, on 14 January 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

Cash grab? More like coin grab. Isn't 300MP less than 2 USD?

Oh you mean mech bays are the only real reason you feel you need to buy MP, right? Yeah, well the game is only free if you play it a little bit. If you play it a lot you should have to pay at least something.

Sorry, I have to disagree. League of Legends and Hawken both can be played for 100% free if you're patient enough. There is not a single thing you have to pay for to keep playing. Hawken is still untested, who knows how it will do, but League is a bona fide success and I think the devs at PGI would love to have half of League's numbers. To do that, I would recommend learning from them, starting with making the MC prices reasonable and losing mech bays. Seriously, I just bought Dishonored for $30 off Steam, here, that would get me one, maybe two mechs. Nonsense. It's a poor value. I should be able to get like 4-6 mechs for $30. It's not like they don't have a very wide selection, especially when you include variants which their XP system encourages you to get (wisely IMO). In Hawken, which has a much smaller mech selection, all mechs are $5. Guess which games I've spent money on and which I haven't? Micro-transactions, micro.

Edited by CypherHalo, 14 January 2013 - 04:33 PM.

[DrSecretStache]

I'd be happy if they knocked it down to two. More mechs could be introduced to the game that way

[Monky]

I wish you could unlock with a single variant at 3x the rate. This also brings into play mechs that might not otherwise be considered for MWO due to lack of variants.

I call that a win-win.

[Merky Merc]

I would like to see it reduced to 2, I understand the need for a money/time sink in game but some variants are quite awful and I felt like I was punishing the team by running say... a RVN-4X.

And as mentioned there appear to be quite a few mechs with minimal variants, or variants that are effectively the same for MWO (2ML and 6 heatsinks? Now 1LL 1ML and 4 heatsinks!! OMG variation!)

And the difference between an elite and non-elite build is quite substantial. No reason to punish new players any more than they already are.

[Grey Ghost]

Wintersdark, on 14 January 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

You're SUPPOSED to buy those mechs. You don't have to pilot them, but this provides a cbill sink. Without this, you'd just amass mountains of cbills. You don't need a lot of mechbays, as you can sell them once you're done - incidentally, that's been my approach, though I'm actually piloting those chassis. I haven't seen the need to have more than my 4 mech bays yet, and I've gotten Elite with my Flame, and working on Cats now.

It's a design feature, not a bug: There needs to be a cash sink in the game, and this is it.

Who called anything to do with this a bug? I'm not so sure buying Mechs is what they want their main CBill sink to be, seeing as they make more money if you spend MC on them instead. After the 25 cadet bonus matches, money really starts to slow down.

Grinding the Cbills to buy & upgrade new Mechs looks like it will be pretty slow for the casual gamer. Which gives incentive to buy the Mechs with real money, then sink your Cbills into them for upgrades. I'd be perfectly fine with this if the Mechs didn't cost so much darned money. We're talking $25 to $30+ for some Mechs, depending on when and what amounts of MC you've bought in order to purchase them.

[Weaselfeet]

Some of my favourite mechs have been those I have found along the way to unlocking elite for another mech.
I like the requirement as it forces me to sample various load-outs and associated playstyles, I am for keeping it as it is.

[Raidyr]

I don't mind having to use 3 of the same chassis to get elite skills. It shows you are good at Jenners in general, not just the Jenner D or what have you. It sucks when you have to drive suboptimal variants (ie, every non-2D commando) but that's more a problem with balance than progression.

What I can't stand is the fact that I have to drive wholly seperate mechs to get mastery. Why do I have to drive a Raven if I want to be the best Commando pilot possible? It's arbitrary grind with the secondary effect of "encouraging" (enforcing) mech slot sales.

[Vincent Lynch]

Raidyr, on 14 January 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

What I can't stand is the fact that I have to drive wholly seperate mechs to get mastery. Why do I have to drive a Raven if I want to be the best Commando pilot possible? It's arbitrary grind with the secondary effect of "encouraging" (enforcing) mech slot sales.

WHAT?? Where do you get the idea from that you have to drive different Mechs to gain Mastery? Because it isn't true.

[Inertiaman]

Vincent Lynch, on 14 January 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Also, free 2 play does not mean that the devs work for free. They do an awesome job considering how few of them PGI has

How many is that?

[Vincent Lynch]

Inertiaman, on 15 January 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

How many is that?

I don't remember exactly, but I read the number once and was kinda surprised, would have expected them to have 4 or 5 times as many. Must be somewhere here on the forum, in a post from October or November I think. Because, you know, other games have hundreds of developers.