94 replies to this topic

[Solis Obscuri]

Kurayami, on 19 November 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

it is working kinda not like it should. for starters i think single launcher should pose more treat, but i also think that quantity of said launcher should be strictly limited. This way there will be no need in extensive boating for lrm to work "great" and noone will be able to amass them to the point of killing anything with less than 5-7 salvos. a VERY good system was introduced in LL where mount points were restricted by size - not true to TT but i realy doubt that any fluff ever mentioned dual gauss cat or 55 lrm fatlas etc. this way force diversity while allowing to have a very interesting and deadly weapons instead of dumbed down nerfed to the ground flashlights and fireworks.

I'm not really sure your expectations for a single launcher are realistic; per tonnage, a LRM-10 is more efficient than a PPC, Large Laser, or any of the ballistics at dealing damage. In most cases (except on very light fire support units) a single LRM launcher is intended as a supplemental weapon for engaging targets at long range, or providing some degree of fire support for other friendly units; the low weight and heat requirements for the LRM launcher allow it to fill that role.

I would argue that LRMs are still effective in that role with a single launcher; with multiple launchers they are still effective as a primary weapon for fire-support units. And those fire support units don't need to be particularly heavy - I've been having a great deal of success running my HBK-4J with one LRM-10, one LRM-15, and four tons of LRM ammo, even without Artemis or TAG. It's not like two months ago when LRMs did high damage but had such miserable accuracy that only assault-weight boats with huge ammo reserves could be effective with them, since so many shots were wasted firing into the ground due to the horrendous pathing we had at the time.

[Suko]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

I have made 23 Million using Artemis equipped LRMs on both an Atlas-D and a Cat-C3(?) in three days. I even empty the 8 tons of ammo the Cat carries almost every game.

I'm calling bullsh*t. I play about 3 hours every night and have a 3:1 W/L ratio. I bring in ~2.5m a night. I had 1000 LRM Artemis IV rounds on my C1 Foudners and it cost me 140k to rearm my mech after each match. If you earn ~240k after a winning match, that means you are playing 10 matches without any damage or loses, just to earn 1m C-bills. Claiming to earn 8m C-bills a day equals 80 matches EVERY DAY with my numbers.

I'm positive you are either A ) Highly inflating your numbers to try and prove a point, B ) Grouping in premades CONSTANTLY, guaranteeing easy wins with minimal damage or loss to you, or C ) You have nothing better to do than play MWO for literally 16 hours a day.

I hate to get so personal, but I won't stand for ******** responses from people who are just trying to prove a point, forgetting the reality of the situation. I stand by what I said earlier. For their incredibly high reload costs, LRMs are not worth using on most player's mechs.

Edited by ShadowVFX, 19 November 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[Acehilator]

Solis Obscuri, on 19 November 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

...The pathing is very good...

Gimme some of that stuff you are smoking plz.

[Athomahawk]

Those rocks had it comin'

[Acehilator]

Athomahawk, on 19 November 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Those rocks had it comin'

Die, evil pavement, die!

[Solis Obscuri]

Have you guys tried waiting until the lock indicator becomes a solid red circle before firing?

[BalzaSteel]

lol, first everybody whined that missles sucked, then they made them more powerfull and every whined about that, so it was fixed and now folks are back to whining that they suck again, go figure.

BalzOut

[One Medic Army]

Well, I can't say they're lawn darts.
Lawn Darts are dangerous.

[wanderer]

Solis Obscuri, on 19 November 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Have you guys tried waiting until the lock indicator becomes a solid red circle before firing?

Considering you have to if you want the missiles to actually, y'know, track something- yeah.

BalzaSteel, on 19 November 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

lol, first everybody whined that missles sucked, then they made them more powerfull and every whined about that, so it was fixed and now folks are back to whining that they suck again, go figure.

BalzOut

That would be because they went one step too far- and then took three steps back. Go ahead and give me my pre-Artemis-patch LRMs with 1.8 damage. I'm fine with that.

Reverting them to crappy earlier AI and tracking ability that literally render fast enough targets immune to missile fire is disappointing at best.

[CobraFive]

LRMs really shouldn't be the weapon getting all the kills.

It is and should be a support weapon, nothing more.

[Kaijin]

LRMs really should be getting some of the kills.

They are the primary weapon system on some mechs.

(See - I can play the repetition game too)

[Noth]

Kaijin, on 19 November 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

LRMs really should be getting some of the kills.

They are the primary weapon system on some mechs.

(See - I can play the repetition game too)

LRMs do get some of the kills. A primary weapon taht is a support weapon is still a support weapon.

[Weeble]

TL;DR LRMs are almost irrelevant.

One of my mechs is a Founders Cat. Prior to the Artemis patch, LRMs did decent damage but the forums were not in an uproar about them being OP. A good team would use scouts and LRM mechs as part of their strategy but the world did not revolve around them.

The Artemis patch made LRMs OP and I quit playing until PGI rolled out the "fix". It was only a couple days, not the dark ages like some people make out.

PGI, in their infinite wisdon,decided not to roll back the changes to LRMs. Instead, they made more changes including decreasing the damage per missile by 15% (2.0 to 1.7).

Before the Artemis patch, a typical game for me in my C1 would be 400-600 damage and 2 or 3 kills. I don't know how the damage was split between weapons systems- I was getting my kills with lasers but my gut tells me most of the damage was from missiles. People would NOT stand in the open and let me rain missiles on them but I could damage areas that could be targeted with lasers after my ammo was gone.

After the "fix" a typical game is 200-300 damage (-50%). I still get a couple of kills with lasers, the difference is most mechs just ignore LRMs now. Instead of pinning them behind cover, they just walk out and engage in brawling. Plus, who wants to risk getting killed scouting with their light mech when the boats are launching water balloons?

I prefer to brawl. I own 7 mechs and only 2 use LRM. However, LRMs should be important enough to be part of a teams strategy and they just aren't right now. Will increasing damage from 1.7 to 1.8 change that? I don't know but I hope PGI does something. Even though I like to brawl, I like battles to be strategic, not a big scrum.

[Umbra8]

If you want any evidence LRM's are not where they should be, consider the following.

I no longer put AMS on my mechs.

Don't need it, it's wasted tonnage. Just like putting LRM's on my mechs would be wasted tonnage. Far better to use PPC's, Gauss or AC 2 or 5. Once I shelved my missile CAT and went with two AC5's and a ERPPC my damage per match and wins in general went up. I don't feel the need to grab cover when a missile warning shows and open areas are tactically no different than screened ones in my jenner.

If LRM's were working as intended, this would not be the case. Weather you think they are 'support' weapons or not, what they should do is act as area denial weapons. They should make you look at an open area with no cover and no AMS screen and say to yourself 'that's risky'. If they don't do that, they aren't working, no matter what their damage per missile is.

[Kaulwyn51]

I love my LRM Atlas, 2x20 LRM+Arty 4ML. I dropped about 6 to 8 times tonight to test out this exact point, LRM worthless or not. What I waited for was a Atlas in the open and to get his attention on me alone. I finally got it in River Valley. The enemy Atlas had only one are hit, he was yellow in his right arm. He started walking and firing at me a assortment of PPC and lasers. I fired only my LRMs starting about 950m out. He killed me just under 400m away, when I died the Atlas was only yellow in 4 areas, all others were untouched. I launched 8 salvos. As I see it, the LRM launcher is a support weapon and should be. I think after the last patch for them the spread got too wide, but the damage is about right. I also see TAG now as a really good laser pointer and would be a great help in blinding the other pilots, but its not doing its job as it was before the patch. Just my thoughts.

[Athanos Kerensky]

The Herrick, on 19 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

Surprise! A weapon that can allow you to indirectly fire on people from 1000m is generally only good for softening up targets for your friends on the front lines who are actually taking risks and enemy fire to provide you that lock data.

Thank you...

[Umbra8]

Kaulwyn51, on 19 November 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

The enemy Atlas had only one are hit, he was yellow in his right arm. He started walking and firing at me a assortment of PPC and lasers. I fired only my LRMs starting about 950m out. He killed me just under 400m away, when I died the Atlas was only yellow in 4 areas, all others were untouched. I launched 8 salvos. As I see it, the LRM launcher is a support weapon and should be. I think after the last patch for them the spread got too wide, but the damage is about right.

So let me get this straight. Your mech had 2 lrm 20's with arty and ammo, so at least 26 to 27 tons invested in that weapon system, firing approximately 320 missiles, which lost to another mech using, say 2 or 3 ppcs and some ml's, so approximately 18-23 tons worth of weapons system while only reducing some of his armour to yellow, and you think lrm's are mostly working as intended? This is while the enemy mech is walking slowly (Atlas) towards you from almost a kilometre out and he kills you before he's 2/3rds of the way to you. Are you running with reduced armour? Did he have AMS? Was there screeing or cover? If none of those were a factor, I'm sorry, you should have wrecked that Atlas instead of giving it the equivalent of missile shiatsu. Missile systems are supposed to punish those who make bad decisions, like walking slowly towards a missile platform with no cover or screening. If you had an equivalent tonnage of PPC's, gauss or heavy lasers in the same circumstances you would have fared better, so why bother with a weapon system that performs so poorly under almost optimal circumstances? I don't know why you seem to think their performance is acceptable, from your post it seems something is not working as intended.

Edited by Umbra8, 19 November 2012 - 06:35 PM.

[Rhent]

River Walker, on 19 November 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

LRM are hard hiting when they are used in grop fire.

I have been drop where a laces of Mech with LRM held off are side for all most 5 minuets and we lost Mechs just trying to move from cover to cover.

LRM Rain is not fun to deal with if what you are dealing with is a Mix lance with LRM and SSRM and small laser HB that kill off the scouts
I do think the Ammo price for LRM is insane and is the number one reason why I drop my LRM Cat.

SRM's are hard hitting in group fire
Gauss Cannons are hard hitting in group fire
Large Lasers are hard hitting in group fire

Then again, SRM's are hard hitting in single fire
Gauss Cannons are hard hitting in single fire
Large Lasers are hard hitting in single fire

If you want to do long range damage in the game now you use Gauss, PPC and AC/5's. LRM's are a pathetic joke at the moment for the tonnage cost and the damage output.

[Vermaxx]

Having seen my friend use them last night, and getting his opinion, I vote lawndart.

Night of Artemis, my friend said "This is going to get nerfed." He has been a fan of LRM since tabletop, and every video game since. He recognized the broken.

Last night, he recognized another problem: they aren't as good as they were prior to Artemis. Grouping looked looser, damage done was very low (at long range), and despite missiles 'hitting' via the HUD indicator, mechs did not take damage.

At the near-edge of 1000m LRM spotter range, they seem to do almost nothing. In close (someone said 400m the other day) they still do reasonably well. The spread seemed upped to him.

As I have said, I think the Artemis nerf went too far. Spread values went up too high, damage got lowered too far, recycle times are too long, and missiles don't seem to perform at "Long" range. The Artemis buffs to SRM also simply disappeared, but the tooltip still quotes them.

[Rhent]

Vermaxx, on 19 November 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

Having seen my friend use them last night, and getting his opinion, I vote lawndart.

Night of Artemis, my friend said "This is going to get nerfed." He has been a fan of LRM since tabletop, and every video game since. He recognized the broken.

Last night, he recognized another problem: they aren't as good as they were prior to Artemis. Grouping looked looser, damage done was very low (at long range), and despite missiles 'hitting' via the HUD indicator, mechs did not take damage.

At the near-edge of 1000m LRM spotter range, they seem to do almost nothing. In close (someone said 400m the other day) they still do reasonably well. The spread seemed upped to him.

As I have said, I think the Artemis nerf went too far. Spread values went up too high, damage got lowered too far, recycle times are too long, and missiles don't seem to perform at "Long" range. The Artemis buffs to SRM also simply disappeared, but the tooltip still quotes them.

The Artemis buff to SRM 6's should frankly be banned. Just get 4 SRM 6's and go point blank on your oppent and launch a few volleys and watch them blow up. Hell get to within 100M or less and they all hit. The buff to SRM's via artemis are simply wrong.