29 replies to this topic

[hurleybird]

It's simple really -- as an extension of the HUD, have the game draw a semi transparent dotted line on the ground in front of your mech that correlates to the direction the mech is travelling. It can be done subtly in a way that doesn't break immersion (hell, it's just a more obvious form of the guide that's already on your compass), and if implemented well would lower the learning curve substantially!

I think this is the most substantial change PGI could make, but rear/side views, some degree of rear facing radar, or even proximity alerts can help as well. Why split the community in two when we can have the best of both worlds in the first person perspective? Let's exhaust every other option before resorting to a kludge.

Edited by hurleybird, 19 November 2012 - 05:20 PM.

[Team Leader]

I dont think thats what the issue with third person is.. but I guess a sort of "training wheels" visual you describe would be an improvement.

[Taryys]

That is one way to approach it, but the primary issue is when you legs are pointing in a direction that is outside of your field of view. If a line is still seen then you will have no perception of how far out of sight it is.

The best answer is a robust tutorial. Having more prominent visual indicators would be nice, and is a good idea.

I posted about this too in this post:

How To Reduce The Grind And Create A Great New User Experience

Edited by Taryys, 19 November 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[OldGrayDonkey]

How would you see this line if your turret is facing the other way?

If you really want newbs running around with their turret facing down to look at the line, I'd be happy to shoot them in the back.

[hurleybird]

Team Leader, on 19 November 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

I dont think thats what the issue with third person is.

Maybe I should rephrase. I'm talking about a better solution to the problem (high learning curve) that is a primary motivation for including third person view.

Taryys, on 19 November 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

That is one way to approach it, but the primary issue is when you legs are pointing in a direction that is outside of your field of view. If a line is still seen then you will have no perception of how far out of sight it is.

Sure, but having that line in your field of view and prominent for most of the time will still help a player better understand his positioning when it is out of the field of view, because he has a more recent reference point. You could even have some form of visual feedback when the line is out of field of view, like having the dotted line stay at the edge of the screen and then fade or change color the further away it gets.

Taryys, on 19 November 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

The best answer is a robust tutorial.

You won't find much argument there!

[Solis Obscuri]

You already have a little dashed line on your mini-map...

[hurleybird]

Solis Obscuri, on 19 November 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

You already have a little dashed line on your mini-map...

Which isn't doing the best job in helping new players orient themselves, and in the middle of a fight a new player is unlikely to glance down at his minimap. If the minimap line was working for new players we wouldn't be talking about 3rd person view right now. Better visual feedback is necessary.

[Taryys]

Yea, the usability maxim of 5 degrees of separation is happening here.
We do have the direction shown on the minimap, but that is relatively far from our primary field of view.
Something in the main viewing area would work better to point out the direction of your legs.

hurleybird, on 19 November 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

Which isn't doing the best job in helping new players orient themselves, and in the middle of a fight a new player is unlikely to glance down at his minimap. If the minimap line was working for new players we wouldn't be talking about 3rd person view right now. Better visual feedback is necessary.

[Kavoh]

I still fail to see how the torso/leg assistance on the HUD is too hard to understand

[Taryys]

The suckier the pilot you the the more panicked you will be.
When I play I have never noticed the dotted lines at the top of the HUD.
One of the primary probs with that indication is that it requires symbol interpretation and that takes thought.
A game likes this, especially for new players, there are not enough thought cycles available to look outside the primary field of view and interpret symbols to determine what is going on.

I have used the dotted line before since that is significantly easier a symbol to interpret.
I am not sure what is a good answer yet, but talking about it is a good start.

[All iN]

Best solution is to not implement it at all, risking another wave of unnecesary bugs and memory leaks that will come with it.

[Tresch]

a screen in the cockpit that shows a view captured by a camera mounted on the mech's hips. It's simply another 1st person view, but from a perspective that doesn't rotate with the torso, so you can always see where you're going.

Done, fixed.

Edited by Tresch, 19 November 2012 - 05:53 PM.

[hurleybird]

Tresch, on 19 November 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

a screen in the cockpit that shows a view captured by a camera mounted on the mech's hips. It's simply another 1st person view, but from a perspective that doesn't rotate with the torso, so you can always see where you're going.

Done, fixed.

Unfortunately multiple view-ports will incur massive performance hits, at least unless PGI manages some kind of spectacular optimization. That's why the advanced zoom module is currently a blurry zoomed in portion of the screen instead of a separate, sharp view port.

[Gulinborsti]

You can find the best solution for this topic in my signature ...

[Havyek]

There's only so much babysitting you can do.

There is already a notifier on your mini map showing both direction and facing.
There is already a notifier on your compass that shows both direction and facing.

Do we need PGI to pay to have someone fly to someone's house, and TELL them which direction they're going and which way they're facing?

[Bromineberry]

Why not make a small screen on the hud, (as big as the one taht shows your "health") that shows your mech from the 3rd person perspective? Didn't something like this exist in MW4 for mechs you've selected as your target?
This should be enought for easier orientation but would not give you the ability, to see more then a pilot should because details would be way to tiny.

Edited by Bromineberry, 22 November 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[stjobe]

I've helped a number of people start playing MWO now, and my take on the issue is
* If they've played WoT, they'll have no problem with legs going one way and torso pointing another. None whatsoever.
* If they haven't played WoT (or any similar game), it takes them 2-4 matches to get to grips with it; then they're fine.

I'm of the opinion that third-person view would utterly ruin this game, and instead I'd like to see a solo-drop tutorial map, with an obstacle course and a firing range (with both stationary and moving targets). That, combined with a OSD and voice explanation of the HUD while on the tutorial map, would probably cover 90% of the complaints.

As an added bonus and incentive, give a fair bit of C-Bills for completing the tutorial (navigate the obstacle course, hit most/all of the targets).

[Johnny Human]

There is nothing wrong with your suggestion. But my suspicion is the issue isn't so much about helping new players get oriented. It's about PGI wanting to cater to WoT players as they play in 3rd person by default.

I am hopeful though that the large community outcry will make them realize that they should focus on promoting and developing the strengths and distinct character of their own game rather than worrying about mimicking the style of another game.

[madmac451]

you want to help on the learning curve for newbies without killing the game ok .does anyone other than me rember the paper doll from mw3 how you could change it paper doll to bar graphe moving and a moving 3d model of your mech. that and the dotted arrow in the mini map should be more than enough to get people to understand how there mech moves actualy it will not work work because they dont want to put any effort into learning the the game

[skullman86]

Torso lock option where W and S control throttle and the mouse controls directional input for the legs and torso (at the same time). This limits the amount of mobility for a player somewhat, but it could be easier for people who prefer infantry style controls over vehicles.

Or

something like the OP's Idea: put a semi-transparent arrow somewhere on the HUD to indicate walking direction or use something similar to the tank info in BF3.