336 replies to this topic

[Mantiis]

If the cockpit shake was minimized this wouldn't be an issue.

Also, the cockpit shake is a relic anyway. SSRM used to always hit CT. Now that they hit other areas, why on earth would I continue to get constant shake in my cockpit?

[Zyllos]

This is my only issue with SSRMs atm:

Should still be targetting arms/legs.

Needs a bit longer RoF than SRMs (+1s than the similar sized SRM launcher sounds good).

Other than that, I think the weight/slots is fine. The ammo and ammo cost is fine. Damage is good.

[Dimento Graven]

Franklen Avignon, on 21 November 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Wow. I haven't heard that much QQ about a game in a long time. Maybe instead of crying about things, he could invest that time into developing a little skill. Seems he just decided "**** it, I'll just take a design that requires as little skill as possible to use!"

Don't worry about it, this was posted in YouTube on Nov 3, well before the supposed "OP" change to SSRMs.

This guy diggin up and using these old videos shows his desperation in finding something to justify his desire to not have to work hard at surviving.

Mantiis, on 21 November 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

If the cockpit shake was minimized this wouldn't be an issue.

Also, the cockpit shake is a relic anyway. SSRM used to always hit CT. Now that they hit other areas, why on earth would I continue to get constant shake in my cockpit?

Due to the mass of the missle itself, plus the multiple pounds of high explosive smashing into, and exploding on your 'mech. Not to mention the sudden inertial change as a result of all that armor falling off your 'mech.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 21 November 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[River Walker]

I have no prob with the SSRM Cat I am not a big fan of it but I rather have it than light Mechs butt hugging me all the time.
Like one poster said Keep your distant from them and hammer them in to Junk at 300+.
With the UAC5 now their no resin to complain about heard of them in a drop.
The best Mech to fight a SSRM Cat is another Cat with UAC5

[Coolant]

don't understand why streak boats are considered overpowered...they have limited range and only do 30 damage in 3.5 seconds...i don't get killed any more often by streak boats than any other type of build. They weigh more than srm2, spread damage now unlike before, and have limited range. If you are getting owned then you are wandering too close to them or you need to add some longer range weapons to your build....

Edited by Coolant, 21 November 2012 - 11:37 AM.

[Master Cerberus]

Streaks are fine as they are, they pose an actual threat to the enemy mechs now. They used to suck so much I stopped even equipping them on my A1, I remember the match which pushed me to as well, there was a damaged hunchie that I was pelting with 4 streaks for a good minute and a half and he just wouldn't die, after that I went full lrm support and that's been fun. Now perhaps I can mix it up. The only people who seem to whine in this thread about the streaks are the ones that got owned by them because they were:

a. Dumb enough to fight a streak cat up close with a relatively slow mech.
b. Got shredded by a coordinated team using streak cats.

In reality, teams are not too common and having played around 6-10 hours after patch I have yet to see an abundance of streak cats overrunning the maps and melting everything. I am far more acquainted with the ******** of cataphracts single-handedly melting mechs one after another because 2xAC5 + 2xUAC5 + freedom of movement cause mounted in arms + ridiculous shake on impact is not op right? I know that a lot of people hate when anything outside of ballistics works right but if your justifying that this weapons system is op by the primary reasons being because you were dumb enough to face it at its optimal operating distance and you were facing a well coordinated force against which you probably had no chance to start with then your arguments are rather weak.

[Asatruer]

Dakkath, on 21 November 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Just wanted to say to the OP that Streaks are intended to hit 100% of the time, unless a building or something gets in the way. This is battletech TT rules pretty much.

This is sort of true, but not completely true. In BattleTech TT, the Streak SRMs still have to make hit rolls every turn they are attempted to be fired. If that hit roll is unsuccessful, the Streak SRM does not fire. If that hit roll is successful, the Streak SRM fires and all of the missiles hit, each rolling a different location on the hit location table.

Example.
CPTL-A1 with the LRMs replaced with 6 SSRM2s trying to target a Jenner (JR7-D) with 2 SSRM2s. Range of 5 hexes (180m), one hex of light woods, and the Jenner is in depth 1 water, CPTL walked four hexes, Jenner ran 11 hexes.
Base hit chance on 2d6 4+modifiers
CPTL +2 for medium range, +1 for walking, +1 for light woods, +1 for water, +4 for targets 11 hex movement. +9 total, for a hit chance of 13 or greater on 2d6. Auto miss, so no fire.
JR7 +2 for medium, +2 for running, +1 for light woods, +1 for four hex movement. +6 total, for a hit chance of 10 or greater on 2D6. Jenner Pilot rolls 10 on one SSRM, and 7 on the second. One SSRM2 fires and hits with 2 missiles.

Turn two. No woods, no water, movement speeds unchanged, but range now 3 hexes short range (90m)
CPTL hit chance 10. Rolls 7, 10, 8, 3, 4, and 10 for two SSRMs firing and 4 missiles hitting.
JR7 hit chance 7. Rolls 7 and 9 for two SSRMs firing and 4 missiles hitting.



Here in MWO the CPTL locks once, and hits with all 12 missiles every cooldown (other than cover or latency) unless the JR7 dies, or breaks lock. If each pull of the trigger for SSRMs actually shot a targeting laser once every cooldown, and if the laser makes contact with an enemy mech the SSRM fired, things would be a bit closer to BattleTech style SSRMs.

[Charles Seneca]

The problem is the screen shake caused by the ssrms. 6*SSRM2 in chain mode are enough to make aiming all but impossible for the target. I dread to think what 6*SSRM6 is gonna be like...

[Master Cerberus]

Charles Seneca, on 21 November 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

The problem is the screen shake caused by the ssrms. 6*SSRM2 in chain mode are enough to make aiming all but impossible for the target. I dread to think what 6*SSRM6 is gonna be like...

The question is, why is that a concern? AC fire already gives ridiculous screen shake but I don't see threads complaining about that.

[Dimento Graven]

Master Cerberus, on 21 November 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

The question is, why is that a concern? AC fire already gives ridiculous screen shake but I don't see threads complaining about that.

LRMs too cause shake, and blurring...

[Dimento Graven]

Asatruer, on 21 November 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

This is sort of true, but not completely true. In BattleTech TT, the Streak SRMs still have to make hit rolls every turn they are attempted to be fired. If that hit roll is unsuccessful, the Streak SRM does not fire. If that hit roll is successful, the Streak SRM fires and all of the missiles hit, each rolling a different location on the hit location table.
...

Hmm... You want me to be able to hit arms, legs, and head, as well as the left and right torsos?

Welp... Considering the thin armor on smaller 'mechs arms, legs, and head... Sure, why not? I'll probably be able to kill off light 'mechs much more quickly after I leg, or disarm them. It'll certainly be cheaper on the ammo budget I'm sure...

Carefull what you wish for... You just may get it.

[Pugnacious Stoat]

Dimento Graven, on 21 November 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

It is absolutely moronic to believe that a 25 ton Commando should have ANY sort of chance, one on one, against a 100 ton Atlas. If they're trying to build a game to 'enable' that, they're building the most craptastic mediocrity since EQ2.

Four times the weight, many times that in alpha power, at least as much weight in armor as the Commando itself, hell a Commando could BE an Atlas leg, and you're telling me it should have a 'realisitc' chance, one on one?!?!!?

The only permissable advantages a light 'mech should have are its tiny hit boxes, its extremely short stature, its speed and its manueverability. Nerfing weapons systems to accomodate the survivability of lazy, inept players is financial suicide ANY game. Solo lights are NOT battle line 'mechs, they're scouts, skirmishers, quick response units. The only viable against larger 'mechs is 'wolf packing', which requires coordination, cooperation and communication. Yeah, that is REALLY hard, no sarcasm, as most PUGs piloting light 'mechs are incapable of any of that even at the most basic level.

What are you smoking? Get rid of it, they've used DDT insecticide on it!

If you can spare a few minutes, watch this, especially from 50 seconds onward:



I was spectating when that happened (though I'm not the person narrating the video, obviously), and it was the first time I was really impressed with the game. The biggest problem I had with MW4 multiplayer was that all most people ever did was take an assault mech, stomp out to the center of the map, and trade shots to the center torso until someone died. It was still fun, but it lacked depth and variety. The fact that PGI has found a way to make the biggest, baddest mechs in the game vulnerable to some of the smallest isn't "craptastic," it's brilliant. Why should the simplistic logic of bigger=better dominate the game? Things are much more interesting this way. Every mech has a role in combat (which will always be the core of the game for most players, no matter how big PGI makes the spotting bonuses), and no mech is king. I think you'll find that many of us like it that way, and no, we aren't smoking anything.

Edit: I don't mean to put too much emphasis on the importance of mechs having different roles, in the sense of one sort of mech being a counter to another. I've already said that I don't believe that the game should have hard counters, though being moderately advantaged or disadvantaged against different configurations is good. What I really like about faster mechs being viable is that it allows players to be successful by developing their piloting skills, not just their aim.

Edited by Pugnacious Stoat, 21 November 2012 - 12:33 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Its no so much that the streaks are OP, the streaks are fuctioning just as they should, the streakapult itself is just a cheesy build, justl ike ac20 and ac2 boats. for me personally its just that constant knocking is what makes them overpowered. I dont think that such like weapony should rock a heavy or assautl mech that much. If they streak boats werent rocking you like crazy, youc ould easily clip thier missile racks right off, leg them, then leave them there to think about thier cheesy mech and what they have done whilst you go off and cap thier base...then they are stuck there weaponless, slow, and unable to do crap

Possibly removing thier jumpjet ability and reducing the knock should remove a lot of complaints about the streak srm cats...they wotn be able to jump away when you start lining them up and being able to accuratly target them while under fire will make them pause before charging headlong into that loaded atlas....just a thought.

[Charles Seneca]

ACs need to aimed, thus continuous shaking does not happen anywhere near as often especially as distance to target increases. This gives the target at least a chance to shoot back.

LRMS are, as the name suggests, long range and slow to boot. When you see them coming you can usually find cover fairly quickly and they do not have a 100% hit rate.

SSRMS are short range. You don't see em coming and certainly have a lot less chance to find cover. They have 100% hit rate all the way out to 270m with only a lock needed.

In short, AC and LRM have weaknesses which makes the screen shake they cause far less intolerable than that caused by SSRMs.

Edited by Charles Seneca, 21 November 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Pugnacious Stoat, on 21 November 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

If you can spare a few minutes, watch this, especially from 50 seconds onward:



I was spectating when that happened (though I'm not the person narrating the video, obviously), and it was the first time I was really impressed with the game. The biggest problem I had with MW4 multiplayer was that all most people ever did was take an assault mech, stomp out to the center of the map, and trade shots to the center torso until someone died. It was still fun, but it lacked depth and variety. The fact that PGI has found a way to make the biggest, baddest mechs in the game vulnerable to some of the smallest isn't "craptastic," it's brilliant. Why should the simplistic logic of bigger=better dominate the game? Things are much more interesting this way. Every mech has a role in combat (which will always be the core of the game for most players, no matter how big PGI makes the spotting bonuses), and no mech is king. I think you'll find that many of us like it that way, and no, we aren't smoking anything.

That is pretty much my feelings in a nutshell...I cannot personally pilot lights for crap myself...but ill go toe to toe with an atlas before id want to go anywhere near a good Jenner pilot...ive seen some AMAZING jenner takedowns. Lights are pretty much fufilling the role they are ment to fill..high speed harassment, good jenner wolfpacks can easily pick an assult mech to the bones in seconds...as they could in cannon, and i think thats how it should be. It makes you actually use teamwork instead of everyone doing the Stiener Scout assault mech stomp. I want a brawl, not a turret match.

[Tuku]

Streak cats are intresting and I must say I have not seen these in 4s before. But when my Lance rolls out if we realized 4 streak cats the convorsation on voice chat would go something like this.

4 streak cats....really!

Alright Alpha is target heatshot the lazy bum

Alpha down

Beta is target

Beta down

Charlie is target

Charlie down

Delta is target

Delta down


See the problem with streak cats is the problem with all close range cats....they have to show that big beautiful head of theirs to the enemy in order to fight them. And weather we have snipers or LRMs as fire support they wont last long when our brawlers get ahold of them.

For those who scream about the shake being something that is to much to handle....I run an atlas with 2 LBX 10 and 3 Artemis SRM6 with 2 large lasers for good measure... Who needs to aim....I just throw up bullets and missiles all over a catapult until it falls over dead. .....you are welcome for that visual. In that situation where a streak cat is on you....a slow moving brawler .... You take the damage (If you are in an assualt) And back up while twisting your torso left to right over and over agian and taking pot shots with your weapons when it is aimed at the enemy to spread the damage even more than streaks already do. .... Then....and this is important.....You call for help....give the streak cats name or his call letter and tell them kill this guy he is streak cat....most people would be drooling to help you in this most noble of causes.

Also boom headshot.



Remember kids....focus fire wins matches!

[Master Cerberus]

Dimento Graven, on 21 November 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

LRMs too cause shake, and blurring...

Indeed, lasers cause severe blurring where you literally can't see anything. These systems are all performing on equal ground but now people don't like that fact because why? Oh, because ballistics and thermal can't roflstomp missiles anymore.

Charles Seneca, on 21 November 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

ACs need to aimed, thus continuous shaking does not happen anywhere near as often especially as distance to target increases. This gives the target at least a chance to shoot back.

LRMS are, as the name suggests, long range and slow to boot. When you see them coming you can usually find cover fairly quickly and they do not have a 100% hit rate.

SSRMS are short range. You don't see em coming and certainly have a lot less chance to find cover. They have 100% hit rate all the way out to 270m with only a lock needed.

In short, AC and LRM have weaknesses which makes the screen shake they cause far less intolerable than that caused by SSRMs.

Besides the fact you probably never got hosed by AC while trying to get to cover and the fact you have to be up close to someone who can probably 3 alpha you when your a cat or take you down with one lucky shot to the head. What justification is there left that this is unfair? Oh btw, you have to hold lock with SSRMs in a fight, try doing that when your moving fast and taking hits from other sources. Honestly, people are painting streak cats as some god machines that are immune to everything, it sounds ridiculous.

Edited by Master Cerberus, 21 November 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[Mercules]

Ryvucz, on 21 November 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'm sorry that my posts do not meet your needs of negative banter, JAVA style instructions, and a delusional mathematical error, followed by poor assumptions. I'm sorry, but pulling a false mathematical deduction out of your rear end, is not a suggestion, claiming that I am a bad pilot, is not a suggestion.

May I suggest you work in customer service for a year? I think that will help freshen up your communication skills and logical thinking of what is an actual suggestion and what is an actual insult.

I shall learn from this experience to further address everything that I am "doing wrong" according to the cookie cutter builds and un-original designs of mech load outs.

My assumption... based on logical thinking... is that you are exaggerating how bad it is. I am basing this off of experience and a bit of math. My experience is that a solidly built Commando, with me in control of it, does not die to a Jenner because of 2 SSRM 2s. What typically kills me is 2 SSRM 2s and 4 lasers of some sort. Typically it is the lasers, more than the Streaks that kill me and it is usually a long and drawn out process unless he catches me napping and moving to slow. Sometimes I'll slow down to linger in a larger mech's back.

Had you said that in combination with the Lasers, the Streaks were demolishing you in a few hits, I could agree with that. To make the spurious claim that a Jenner ONLY using 2 Streaks is ripping off both Torsos and arms in 3 shots is... unlikely.

Moving on... I work in customer service and have more than 12 years experience at Tech Support via phone, E-mail, forums, and text chat. 98% positive response to all exit surveys on my support. My logical thinking is excellent, in fact I tutored Logics while in college at the request of one of my instructors.

I don't run "cookie cutter" builds. Heck, I run a Commando which the "coookie cutter" community thinks is vastly inferior to the Jenner. I do, however, have enough experience with them to know that what you are claiming is "unlikely" with a solid build and pilot. I can further back this up by my anecdotal evidence of not experiencing the same problem using a Commando against Jenners with 2 SSRM2s. Maybe after tonight I will be coming back and apologizing to you, that Jenners with only 2 SSRMs are killing me left and right, but I doubt it.

[Almeras]

Straylight, on 21 November 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

The problem here really isn't Streaks. They're fine, fulfilling their role as a Light 'Mech deterrent and chaser. The problem is the Catapult A1. There's simply no damned good reason to give the thing 6 missile hardpoints when that's nowhere near necessary for the chassis to do its job.

^ This. The A1 only has 6 slots to make it different from other variants. IMO PGI wouldn't have let this in if it wasn't for the fact it was first heavy in the game and they needed mech options. They should just dump it from the game and refund XP (as GXP) /CBills

Edited by Almeras, 21 November 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[Ryvucz]

Mercules, on 21 November 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

My assumption... based on logical thinking... is that you are exaggerating how bad it is. I am basing this off of experience and a bit of math.

So, the part where you added the totals of the arm plus torso, for maximum armor in one facing, is logical thinking and math skills? And you're bashing me over feedback I was giving to the devs, whom, in turn, contact me if they need more information, yet you're here to nail anyone to a cross over personal experience and what you think? I wish I had your job.