262 replies to this topic

[RagingOyster]

The idea of melee weapons/attacks is such a cool one....

But I vote no, simply because I can't see it being implemented well. I mean, we all remember dragon bowling back when collision was a thing. I am excited to see collision return, but I just can't see actual melee being done well.

Maybe allowing you to do damage by torso twisting in such a way that your arm hits the enemy, adding another layer of finesse to brawling? It would be cool to let a KGC use those big claws to whack a circling Raven.

[IraqiWalker]

RagingOyster, on 28 May 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

The idea of melee weapons/attacks is such a cool one....

But I vote no, simply because I can't see it being implemented well. I mean, we all remember dragon bowling back when collision was a thing. I am excited to see collision return, but I just can't see actual melee being done well.

Maybe allowing you to do damage by torso twisting in such a way that your arm hits the enemy, adding another layer of finesse to brawling? It would be cool to let a KGC use those big claws to whack a circling Raven.

With collisions on, that smack would be beautiful, as it knocks the twitchy little bastar'd to the ground. Then I can put those 2 AC20s right in it's gigantor beak.

[AbsUserName]

Void Angel, on 28 May 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

Thus, if you wanted to forgo weapons fire, and if you were close to the enemy - meaning if you could catch him or if he could catch you - and if he was in your arc and not behind you or something... You could hit him. There were times when this was preferable - it's not always a last-ditch, no-weapons-left tactic. But it's also not the main focus of the game, particularly with a fair number of 'mechs lacking lower arm and/or hand actuators.

In any case, at the level of importance to tabletop gameplay (and we do need to follow tabletop unless there's a reason not to) and given the non-trivial technical issues involved in melee combat... we're not going to be getting that any time soon.

All right, I get your point. Do you also think pc games are for the faint of heart? Pardon for the condescending tone, but I can see five assaults surrounding and beating another mech is a heavy toll on someone's emotions.

But I'd like to see a Charger. And the Charger has *5 small lasers in a 80-tonner*. That's what I'm talking about: there are snipers, and there are brawlers, and both are canonically relevant.

Void Angel, on 28 May 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

(and we do need to follow tabletop unless there's a reason not to)

There. You said it all. *No* reason at all to claim it's hard to do. We all know it's hard: no news. We (I'm, at least) are paying for Battletech and Mechwarrior, not a generic "heavy gear like" game. And melee - and, for Mechwarrior, on foot FPS! - is an integral part of the *war*game

Edited by AbsUserName, 28 May 2015 - 05:01 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

AbsUserName, on 28 May 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

But I'd like to see a Charger. And the Charger has *5 small lasers in a 80-tonner*. That's what I'm talking about: there are snipers, and there are brawlers, and both are canonically relevant.

In all fairness, that's the base model. Give me that 80 tonner, and it's 5 energy hardpoints, and I'll make a beast out of it.

[Void Angel]

AbsUserName, on 28 May 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

All right, I get your point. Do you also think pc games are for the faint of heart? Pardon for the condescending tone, but I can see five assaults surrounding and beating another mech is a heavy toll on someone's emotions.

But I'd like to see a Charger. And the Charger has *5 small lasers in a 80-tonner*. That's what I'm talking about: there are snipers, and there are brawlers, and both are canonically relevant.


There. You said it all. *No* reason at all to claim it's hard to do. We all know it's hard: no news. We (I'm, at least) are paying for Battletech and Mechwarrior, not a generic "heavy gear like" game. And melee - and, for Mechwarrior, on foot FPS! - is an integral part of the *war*game

I'm sorry, but are you for real? Significant technical issues that would require major investment of scarce resources in order to even try to solve is a very good reason not to add a feature that's not essential to the game So if my quote is indeed the final word on the subject - that means you're wrong.

Your having to resort to the Charger proves my point that dedicated melee 'mechs were the exception, not the rule. The Charger is considered to be one of the worst 'mech designs of all time - both in tabletop and in canon flavor text. Some melee-equipped 'mechs were very popular with fans, and melee combat is certainly fun - but it's not an integral part of the battlefield. While melee combat was indeed present from the very first, only 47 Battlemechs in the entire history of the game have been equipped with any sort of melee weapon - many of them being rare retrofits, Solaris VII gladiatorial 'mechs unknown on the actual battlefield, or 'mechs that were not produced until later (sometimes much later) than the current chronology.

While we as players, particularly of the tabletop, would love to see melee combat implemented, it's not a bread-and-butter part of the game, and need not be absolutely included - particularly since it would take a lot of time and effort just to see if the technical difficulties could be overcome with this game engine.

Edited by Void Angel, 28 May 2015 - 06:21 PM.

[Leone]

I 'unno about you, but pretty much every battle tech map I've been in has included melee attacks. I mean, in the table top game, they are free attacks. Already shot with your arm mounted weapons? Kick their legs out from under em! Standing in a forest (Which you should do often,)? Grab a tree and get ready to bash some mech. One in six chance you smash the head! Need to cool down? Well don't fire that large laser in your arm, give em a good whack instead.

That said, this game? While I'd love me some melee, I can accept that there're prolly other things on the devs plates right now. Ideal world? Yes, I'd love real charging damage. Heck, I managed to DFA someone with a Banshee just yesterday, because I could. Would I have loved to have done some damage? Of course!

But like I said, I can live without it for now.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand.

[EAP10]

RagingOyster, on 28 May 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

The idea of melee weapons/attacks is such a cool one....

But I vote no, simply because I can't see it being implemented well. I mean, we all remember dragon bowling back when collision was a thing. I am excited to see collision return, but I just can't see actual melee being done well.

Maybe allowing you to do damage by torso twisting in such a way that your arm hits the enemy, adding another layer of finesse to brawling? It would be cool to let a KGC use those big claws to whack a circling Raven.

Yes, yes, yes, and more yes. This is what I was trying to outline quite a few pages back. Look for my very long post and you'll see what I mean.

[Will9761]

Anything that allows me to use my hand actuators or increases the chance of seeing a Hatchetman and Axman is a yes for me.

Edited by Will9761, 29 May 2015 - 08:57 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

I think the TL;DR of this entire thread is this:

Spoiler

We all want to see melee in the game, but we just don't think it should be put in, right now. Not when PGI already have so much to do. Maybe once they get some clear space on their desks, and a lot of more important things are fixed/completed, they can work on it.

I remember for a fact that PGI wants to add melee into the game. It's just that coding it is a nightmare, and is beyond their scope for the time being.

[rolly]

Rushin Roulette, on 21 November 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

Here is a preview of an Atlas vs a scout if Melee damage is implemented;

If an Atlas can do that. We're so in trouble.

On a serious note though, I often wonder if this game is using CryEngine why can't CQB happen in MWO? I'm assuming Far Cry must have had coding for CQB would it not? Can anyone shed some light on this? I dare say that would it not be possible to check out the coding on collisions and CQB in Far Cry and implement a basic push or punch here?

Edited by rolly, 29 May 2015 - 12:53 PM.

[rolly]

Will9761, on 29 May 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Anything that allows me to use my hand actuators or increases the chance of seeing a Hatchetman and Axman is a yes for me.

Whoa. Easy there. Keep those "hand actuators" where we can all see them.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Void Angel, on 28 May 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but are you for real? Significant technical issues that would require major investment of scarce resources in order to even try to solve is a very good reason not to add a feature that's not essential to the game So if my quote is indeed the final word on the subject - that means you're wrong.

Your having to resort to the Charger proves my point that dedicated melee 'mechs were the exception, not the rule. The Charger is considered to be one of the worst 'mech designs of all time - both in tabletop and in canon flavor text. Some melee-equipped 'mechs were very popular with fans, and melee combat is certainly fun - but it's not an integral part of the battlefield. While melee combat was indeed present from the very first, only 47 Battlemechs in the entire history of the game have been equipped with any sort of melee weapon - many of them being rare retrofits, Solaris VII gladiatorial 'mechs unknown on the actual battlefield, or 'mechs that were not produced until later (sometimes much later) than the current chronology.

While we as players, particularly of the tabletop, would love to see melee combat implemented, it's not a bread-and-butter part of the game, and need not be absolutely included - particularly since it would take a lot of time and effort just to see if the technical difficulties could be overcome with this game engine.

Melee is very essential to BT and TT.
Heavy Gear is coming with all melee, then resources will be found up ASAP. Competition can make miracles.

Melee mechs are very common in BT. Not only mechs that has actually melee weapons are melee. ALL mechs are, just some are more then others.
We got even melee oriented Banshee in the game right now or DRG-1C its a melee mecha as well, besides LRM and AC2 that is used to harass and then once soften up kick them to they sky.
But of course that mean nothing, in full custom world. Charger will have 4 LL anyway or something. That`s way we need Stock Mode.

I beg your pardon, but Charger is great mech in TT, one of my favorite, with that one I won hundreds of game.

[Void Angel]

Holy necroposting, Batman!

But, on-topic, we have survived without a single Mechwarrior game with any melee thus far, so it's hardly essential to having a good game - and whether it's essential aesthetically is a totally subjective point, like arguing over which Ice cream we like. Since there are significant technical hurdles to implementing it, and it's not essential to creating a wildly popular Mechwarrior game, it's not a deal-breaker for this game.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Be cause something was never done, do not meant that should not to be done.
In past it was probably impossible, if now it can be done, Battetech needs it, its very essential for BT IP.
Besides they will want to sell us Axeman, you will see.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

chainsaw ?



piledriver ?

[Leopardo]

Yes for 1000000000% I want to chop some)) also we need some shield against it))))))) like magnetic field ))

[ApolloKaras]

Void Angel, on 23 July 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Holy necroposting, Batman!

But, on-topic, we have survived without a single Mechwarrior game with any melee thus far, so it's hardly essential to having a good game - and whether it's essential aesthetically is a totally subjective point, like arguing over which Ice cream we like. Since there are significant technical hurdles to implementing it, and it's not essential to creating a wildly popular Mechwarrior game, it's not a deal-breaker for this game.

You dont have to post to revive it, just vote on it. But good grief something from 2012..........

However since I'm here. Melee = bad idea. It will be useless and will do nothing other than impede other teammates ability to focus fire, and would probably shoot through you rather than attempt to fire around you. Plus dat collision system.

[TheSilken]

Give me an Atlas, Triple Strength Myomer, and let me deliver 40 points of damage per kick. Oh look a Light hugging me, BAMM insta-kill.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Melee weapons for mechs are so useful, as melee weapons for modern warships and tanks .Tonnen weight, you first need to bring on very next proximity to the enemy ... for 3 t sword, rather 3 tons AC10 ammunition, or 2M laser and a heat sink, which made the TT only useful because since the were not even aim at a stationary target in 30m sightings

Edited by CSJ Ranger, 18 August 2015 - 07:54 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

YueFei, on 11 August 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Even in the age of plate armor, melee weapons designed for it could still punch through it. Spears, pole axes, even swords could pierce it if used with the right technique (half-swording, or reverse it to use the quillions/pommel). Yes, it's all the same stuff, steel, but geometry matters.

and the Knights and samurais gone with the Fireweapons, the Longbows, the Canons, and the Repeating rifles...the Revolver and carbine coming ,and the Lances ,the Sabre and the sword useless for the cavalry

Edited by CSJ Ranger, 18 August 2015 - 07:30 AM.