261 replies to this topic

[Redwood Elf]

I'm amazed there aren't already punching capabilities..what other purpose does an Awsome's left arm serve?

[Foxfire]

The moment they release the Hatchetman as a fully functional mech.. is the moment I get into a Hatchetman.

[Redwood Elf]

blinkin, on 07 June 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

you mean like this:


OMG i just realized!

they need to make a mechwarrior game where the only mechs you get are the industrial mechs and you have to fight it out with those.

More like Ripley in the Autoloader in Aliens.

[Blue Footed Booby]

I'd love to see melee, but at the same time I realize it's one of those things that'd be very hard to make meaningful without messing up the game. Just adjusting damage numbers is rarely enough to walk the razor edge between not worth the weight and a complete no-brainer (which is equally bad because there's one obvious choice, which defeats the purpose of there BEING a choice). It has to be mechanically distinct, and that's a lot of effort for a relatively peripheral feature, especially one that would require new models, textures, mech damage decals, animations, sound effects, hardpoint types, and more.

That said, just a dumb, simple, generic Swing Yo' Fist animation would make me happy, even if it's only the equivalent of the Worms series's Prod "attack."

Edited by Blue Footed Booby, 12 July 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[Davoke]

Capt Cole 117, on 10 March 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

Logically a sword/axe should be damaged when it hits a mech, unlike a human a mech would have similar hardness/toughness to anything you could make a mech melee weapon with. Its just another type of collision when you think about it, my arm hitting your torso, shaping your arm into an axe wouldn’t change that. Kind of silly when you think about it.

Actually the blade of the axe or swords is described at least once in the books as having a diamond edged and carbon-fiber reinforced blade, so that it actually chops through armor, rather than just crushing it. Whereas the club weapon is really just a handle attached to a reinforced wad of armor plating.

[Gaan Cathal]

Capt Cole 117, on 10 March 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

Logically a sword/axe should be damaged when it hits a mech, unlike a human a mech would have similar hardness/toughness to anything you could make a mech melee weapon with. Its just another type of collision when you think about it, my arm hitting your torso, shaping your arm into an axe wouldn’t change that. Kind of silly when you think about it.

I hear that during the long period of human history where metal body armour was widely used by state militaries, swords and axes were very niche weapons and everyone used clubs.

[blinkin]

Gaan Cathal, on 21 July 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

I hear that during the long period of human history where metal body armour was widely used by state militaries, swords and axes were very niche weapons and everyone used clubs.

swords and axes were weapons for the rich.

[YueFei]

Capt Cole 117, on 10 March 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

Logically a sword/axe should be damaged when it hits a mech, unlike a human a mech would have similar hardness/toughness to anything you could make a mech melee weapon with. Its just another type of collision when you think about it, my arm hitting your torso, shaping your arm into an axe wouldn’t change that. Kind of silly when you think about it.

Even in the age of plate armor, melee weapons designed for it could still punch through it. Spears, pole axes, even swords could pierce it if used with the right technique (half-swording, or reverse it to use the quillions/pommel). Yes, it's all the same stuff, steel, but geometry matters.

[Zarlaren]

Hmm how would a Atlas wield a sword,axe,mace,spear,lance etc ? Could you image a Atlas trying to hit a light with a battleaxe or a claymore? Though I voted yes but the question is would it be viable enough to make it worthwhile? And also how would damage be for a one hander vs a two hander? A dagger would be fast but don't do much damage and a big double bladed battleaxe would be slow but do enormous damage. So how would damage scale to different melee weapon? Would a battleaxe = to a AC/20 or gauss rifle in damage while a dagger be like a AC/2 or small laser in damage? You would also have to be like in there face for this melee weapon to work which puts the melee mech in danger of coring to another mech using AC/20s. So the melee mech would need to be tougher then the ranged ones in both armor and structual cause you need to be like 1-10 meters away for a melee weapon to work.

As you would also be picked off with ERPPC's and ER Large Lasers, and LRMS before you in the melee mech can even get close enough to do anything with said melee weapon(Sword,axe,mace,spear,dagger,lance,flail,halberd and so on one hand or two hand).

Edited by Zarla, 13 August 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Where is my Hatchetman??

[Johnny Z]

Not for the mechs. Although the pilot could have a duelist sword and pistol. Add to cockpit items please

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 August 2013 - 05:55 PM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

I think it would be cool to kick a light off you that was trying to d!ck hug you.

[Fabe]

GRiPSViGiL, on 22 August 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

I think it would be cool to kick a light off you that was trying to d!ck hug you.

right now thats is the number 1 reason to add melee attacks.

[Johnny Z]

Arg dont put melee weapons for mechs in, they were not in the original game, and seriously have no place in armored combat sheesh. Even robotech never had melee weapons. Sometime i think alot of the new additions and lore, inculding the clans, was to beat up the original bt and mw, aerotech. But was more than likely a marketing ploy gone horribly wrong

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 September 2013 - 02:44 PM.

[DI3T3R]

Johnny Z, on 04 September 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Arg dont put melee weapons for mechs in, they were not in the original game, and seriously have no place in armored combat sheesh. Even robotech never had melee weapons. Sometime i think alot of the new additions and lore, inculding the clans, was to beat up the original bt and mw, aerotech. But was more than likely a marketing ploy gone horribly wrong

Exactly how many decades of BT would we have to discard to get rid of melee-weapons and Clans?

[Johnny Z]

DI3T3R, on 04 September 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

Exactly how many decades of BT would we have to discard to get rid of melee-weapons and Clans?

Not sure never actually owned any of it myself. But to the best of my knowledge clans was added after bt, mechwarrior, aerotech. Also that Natasha Kerensky was a famous Warhammer pilot for The Wolf's Dragoon's and a notorious mercenary. Last I heard some vegetable made her a clanner? Anyway alot of the fiction that has been added was either some serious bad marketing or a downright beating up of the original bt universe.

I have never been serious about learning the various fictions so I could be wrong about alot of stuff. It interests me though.

Melee would be a huge mistake in my opinion in 31st century armored combat. At least for mechs.

Which is also why none of the other mechwarrior games have tried to add melee into a game with auto cannons and ppc's.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 September 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[Fabe]

Johnny Z, on 04 September 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Not sure never actually owned any of it myself. But to the best of my knowledge clans was added after bt, mechwarrior, aerotech. Also that Natasha Kerensky was a famous Warhammer pilot for The Wolf's Dragoon's and a notorious mercenary. Last I heard some vegetable made her a clanner? Anyway alot of the fiction that has been added was either some serious bad marketing or a downright beating up of the original bt universe.

I have never been serious about learning the various fictions so I could be wrong about alot of stuff. It interests me though.

Melee would be a huge mistake in my opinion in 31st century armored combat. At least for mechs.

Which is also why none of the other mechwarrior games have tried to add melee into a game with auto cannons and ppc's.

Natasha Kerensky wasn't made a clanner she was Born as a clanner. In fact the pretty much all of Wolf's Dragoons where from Clan Wolf on a long term intelligence gathering mission.
http://www.sarna.net...lf%27s_Dragoons

[Foxfire]

IMO what they should do with the weapons is making them a mech specific module that comes equipped on mechs that come with them(hatchet man, axeman) and can be added to mechs that are meant to be able to use them(centurion).. I wouldn't want to see melee weapons be usable by all mechs just to keep the melee mechs specialized(though punching and kicking should definitely make the cut).

The main reason to add melee is the fact that melee was one of the few advantages that the IS had over the clanners that helped them triumph... The vast majority of clanner mechs were incapable of melee due to pod and barrel use over hand and arm actuators.. and clanner mechwarriors wouldn't deign to lower themselves to use melee because it wasn't proper and honorable.

Johnny Z, on 04 September 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Not sure never actually owned any of it myself. But to the best of my knowledge clans was added after bt, mechwarrior, aerotech. Also that Natasha Kerensky was a famous Warhammer pilot for The Wolf's Dragoon's and a notorious mercenary. Last I heard some vegetable made her a clanner? Anyway alot of the fiction that has been added was either some serious bad marketing or a downright beating up of the original bt universe.

I have never been serious about learning the various fictions so I could be wrong about alot of stuff. It interests me though.

Melee would be a huge mistake in my opinion in 31st century armored combat. At least for mechs.

Which is also why none of the other mechwarrior games have tried to add melee into a game with auto cannons and ppc's.

None of the MW games did it because of technical limitations on the engines that they were built on. Melee plays a huge part in the BT universe.. there are mechs specifically designed to take advantage of it, there are a variety of weapons available to use, and it is also one of the major advantages of the IS over the clans.

[Jyaksus]

I think the method of execution is everything with regards to something this alien going into what is currently a guns-only sort of game.

First, how do the darned things work? Personally, I'd give them the firing mechanics of a flamer, but obviously only mountable in locations where there are appropriate actuators. I might even go so far as to say that mounting a melee weapon required additional shock absorption components installed in the arm, giving them a weight comparable to the damage output of the weapon, so that the weight of the weapon isn't what counts.

Like a flamer, anything in the "cone of fire" produced by the arm mounted weapon, suffers continuous impact tremors, much like a mech being pelted by cannon fire, but the mech swinging the weapon would suffer the same, perhaps more, if they hit a heavier mech with their weapon.

Regardless of positioning, when 'fired' the weapon would simply be extended via the elbow and shoulder, so that it 'reaches out and touches' the arm's crosshair position. Thus, if you want to drag your axe from right shoulder to left hip across a cataphract, you would begin the swing, and 'fire' the weapon via weapon grouping approximately when your crosshair started making contact with the enemy mech. This would result in a large amount of damage to the shoulder, and moderate damage to the chest, cockpit, and finally, the opposite side of the torso would receive comparatively little damage.

The swinging speed of the mech's torso and arms are already in game, and relating the speed of the weapon as it is in motion is an easy way to calculate approximately how much damage the weapon should do at that speed, as well as how much impact each tenth of a second is generating (Last I recall, lasers do their damage once every tenth of a second, so this seems like a good place to start) As well as making it very useful for some builds of mech over others.

Aiming while swinging a melee weapon would obviously be difficult, if you have to have the torso swinging while shooting, a lot of weapons aren't going to inflict full damage during a swing, this limits builds where both are used at once for 1 hit kills and such.

[Jyaksus]

Additionally, what kind of weapon the mech wields is related to what kind of 'hands' they have. Cataphracts have a "nub Knuckle" in some builds, right above their guns, some still have hands, but a cannon under them.

Awesomes have little four-fingered claw hands that look useful for... maybe digging?

Shadowhawks and Centurions have sophisticated-looking hands with an extra thumb and lots of joints.

Mechs with knuckle nubs can equip a spike, which is cheap, light, and good for really fast poke poke poke impacts, almost like a melee ac2, those with cannons+Hands can equip handled weapons like hatchets and clubs, but nothing terribly sophisticated, that act more like missiles, they hit an 'area' with relatively little accuracy, and they do it all at once, but with a long cooldown.

Something with real hands, or improved hands, could wield more efficient, less weight-based weapons that did damage more like a laser, by cutting, than just the impact of the weapon hitting metal, it would be spread out over the time the arm is extended.

Against exterior armor, melee weapons have a 'bounce' to them, to balance their power in close quarters, doing greatly reduced damage, and even further butchering your ability to aim. Against sensitive internals, however, huge damage magnifications make them deadly threats against softened-targets.

There are many ways to balance them, make them fun, and even useful additions to the variety of builds and successful gameplay we encounter today. It's all a matter of how carefully PGI codes their functionality.