228 replies to this topic

[Aelos03]

aww that poor lemming

[Major Tom]

Garth Erlam, on 04 May 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

I think what he's saying is them existing is not the same as them being usable. People seem to think that every Mechwarrior was rolling in multi-million c-bill beds.

What you say is "blah... blah... blah"
What I hear is PAY TO WIN!
and I'm ok with that

[irish]

One other thing to keep in mind is who had made what in this time frame.
Example
House Marik Tech: I have made this new chewing gum...it tastse just like 18 year old Jamesons and makes me so attractive to women I have not slept in 2 weeks.
House Davion Tech: Sweet! Can I have me a peice of that sweet sweet blend and girl gum please?
House Marik Tech: I am sorry I am to busy tasting like heaven and speaking to your kid sister. Maybe after the war is over?

For those that don't get my wonderful example. History Lession
The Apache hellicopter was first developed in 1975. It took until 1986 for the US to get a model they felt was up to the specs they wanted it at for general depoyment. Do you think their third step was to call Moscow and let them know not only how bad *** it was but here is a fully built factory to make the ****** just on the off chance some aliens pop down to hand us our teeth?

[Tengo Kawana]

Let's think about this from a design standpoint. While yes, there is a lot of awesome and powerful experimental tech that is being slowly implemented by 3049, we are at the end of SW era tech. The Raven is around in 3039 and actually quite proliferated by the Clan invasion, it is the biggest leap in that the IS is recovering its 'mech production capability. When the Clan invasion happened for Battletech, it was a huge surprise as it was an immediate implementation of vastly heightened power and versatility in individual Battlemechs. I think that, considering the model that the devs have chosen, it is smart to draw out that change in game. We are at the tail end of the era where SW tech is the rule and the exception is the experimental and recovered gear like gauss rifles and double heat sinks. The proliferation of such tech was only fully realized when it was necessary to curb the Clan invasion. Border skirmishes and the War of '39 set this in motion, but the Clans sped it up. From our point of view, we are typical Mechwarriors dealing with the border skirmishes that were dreamt up on the whims of nobles and politicians in the highly bureaucratic and inefficient Inner Sphere. While they stockpile new 'tech, at this point we come in at a time of "peace" in the IS. I am sure that, when the chaos and destruction of the Clan invasion is depicted by the devs, the necessary arms battle will become apparent in availability of more powerful Inner Sphere technologies.

I, for one, am happy that we get to start out in the era where PPCs and regular old LRM 20s were fearsome tools of destruction. It will only make the Gauss Rifle and improved Clan weaponry that much scarier by comparison. And it will make me that much more appreciative of the tech that will eventually trickle down.

[Coralld]

irish, on 04 May 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

History Lession
The Apache hellicopter was first developed in 1975. It took until 1986 for the US to get a model they felt was up to the specs they wanted it at for general depoyment. Do you think their third step was to call Moscow and let them know not only how bad *** it was but here is a fully built factory to make the ****** just on the off chance some aliens pop down to hand us our teeth?

Well the fact that the Devs said that all mechs will be available to every one regardless of faction even faction specific mechs kinda punches a hole in your argument in they way they will be distributed in game.

[wwiiogre]

Tengo that is my take on it as well. We will start with 3025 tech and thru hard work and good contracts in a year hopefully be upto 3039 to 3050 tech for some of the more advanced players. It will be a grind but I have done this grind countless of times in Tabletop and look forward to it. Since I know with that many missions under my belt, even if PUB Redshirt #2022 buys a gauss rifle, he more than likely hasn't learned how to use it or where it should be used let alone fire discipline to not waste shots, etc.

As for pay to win, PGI says nobody will be able to buy anything that cannot be bought in game thru currency earned the hard way. Once again I take experience in game play over ohh I got a shiny gun every time. Will the new guy with the cool gun win sometimes, sure, just as in real life the underdog wins even when on paper they had no chance. Its why you play the game.

Chris

[MaddMaxx]

PsychoFarmer, on 04 May 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Just the sleepy ones.

I have a boat on some water planet where I drink martinis and wear a nice ruby ring. See:

And seriously. Who is going to hire some old psycho farmer from Merc days gone by, who has spent the past "TEN" years on some Martini Barge listening to the sea birds? Seriously...?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 04 May 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Opus, on 04 May 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

it is like throwing gas on a fire, speaking of which . . . . .

• AWS-9M - The 9M is an upgrade of the Awesome that uses Star League technologies, and was introduced in 3049^[5]. The 'Mech is built around a 320 Hermes XL Fusion engine, giving the 'Mech a top speed of 64.8 km/h. The heat sinks were upgraded to double heat sinks to allow this variant to be rearmed with three Fusigon Longtooth ER PPCs. The ER PPCs are backed up by two Hovertec Streak SRM-2s, a Magna 400P Medium Pulse Laser, and a Diverse Optics Type 10 Small Pulse Laser. BV (1.0) = 1,469^[1], BV (2.0) = 1,812^[9]

• opps

So they built 1 AWS-9M with some Level 2 Tech ***** on it! Ok, I'll take it! Now the real issue is.

How long will it be in transit from Savannah? We go to war soon^TM

Edited by MaddMaxx, 04 May 2012 - 10:05 AM.

[Sheewa]

"The Machine Gun Array (MGA) was developed in 3068"

^ makes me sad.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yes, but the Machine Gun was developed Pre-Spaceflight ;-) So you can't mount 4 machineguns in the same spot... that's okay. You can still mount them one-by-one as long as you have the hardpoints... although I bet Paul would kill for a couple MGAs to stack up more firepower on his custom-K2

Edited by Prosperity Park, 04 May 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[IceTitan]

equipment/weapon list, with date create/lost and recreated Inner sphere
Beagle active probe: 2576(terran Hegemony), lost 2835, regained 3045 (House Liao)
AMS: 2617 (Terran Hegemony), lost 2796, regained 3040 (Davion/Steiner)
Anti personnel Pods: 3055 (Comstar/word of Blake)
Armor standard: 2470 (Terran Hegemony)
Ferro Fibrous Armor: 2571 (Terran Hegemony), Lost 2810, regained: 3040 (House Kurita)
Light Ferro Fibrous Armor: 3067 (House Marik)
Heavy Ferro Fibrous: 3069 (House Steiner)
Stealth Armor: 3063 (House Liao)
Artemis IV: 2598 (Terran Hegemony), lost 2855, reagained: 3035 (House Marik)
LB-X Auto-canon 10 2595 (Terran Hegemony), lost 2840, regained 3035 (Davion/Steiner)
Lb-X Ac (2,5,20) 3058 (Davion,Steiner)
Light Auto-canon (2,5) 3068 (Davion)
ROAC(2,5) 3062 (Davion)
UAC 5 : 2640 (Terran Hegemony), lost 2915, regained 3035 (Fed Com)
UAC 2 and 10 3057 (House Marik)
UAC 20 3060 (House Steiner)
Armor Piercing ammo: 3053 (Davion)
Flechette Ammo: 3055 (Davion)
Precision Ammo: 3062 (Davion)
C3 Computer: 3050 kurita
C3I Computer 3062 (Comstar/Word Blake)
CASE 2476 (Terran Hegemony), Lost 2840, Regained 3036 (DCM)
Small Cockpit: 3067 (Davion)
Guardian ECM: 2597 (Terran Hegemony), Lost 2845, Regained 3045 (House Liao)
XL Engine: 2579 (Terran Hegemony), Lost 2865, regained 3035 (House Steiner)
Light Engines: Wolf's Dragoon specific (stolen by house steiner in 3060 and fielded in 3062)
Compact engines: 3068 (House Steiner)
Gauss Rifle: 2590 (Terran Hegemony), Lost 2865, Regained 3040 (House Marik, Steiner, Kurita)
Light gauss Rifle: 3056 (House Marik)
Heavy Gauss Rifle: 3061 (House Steiner)
Compact Gyro: 3068 (Davion/Steiner)
Heavy Gyro: 3067 (House Kurita)
XL gyro: 3067 (Comstar)
Double Heat Sink: 2567 (Terran Hegemony), Lost 2865, regained 3040 (Davion)
Endo Steal: 2487 (Terram Hegemony), lost: 2850, regained 3035 (house Kurita)
Er Large Laser: 2620 (Terran Hegemony), Lost 2950, regained 3037 (House Kurita)
er med and small laser. 3058 (House Marik)
Pulse lasers (all) 2609 (Terran Hegemony), lost 2950, regained 3037 (House Kurita)
Machine Gun Array: 3068 (House Davion)
MRM: 3058 (House Kurita)
Multi-Missile Launcher: 3067 (Battle Magic {mercenary command})
Rocket Launchers: 3064 (Marian Hegemony)
Streak SRM 2: 2647 (Terran Hegemony), Lost 2845, Regained 3035 (House Marik)
SSRM 4 and 6 2058 (House Kurita)
MASC: 2740 (Terran Hegemony), lost 2795, regained 3035 (House Liao)
Narc Missile Beacon: 2587 (Terran hegemony), Lost 2795, Regained: 3035 (House Marik)
INarc: 3062 (Comstar/Word of Blake)
(Narc has 7 type of narc pods)
ER PPC: 2760 (Teran Hegemony), Lost 2860, regained 3037 (House Kurita)
Light PPC: 3067 (House Kurita)
Heavy PPC: 3067 (House Kurita)
Snub Nose PPC: 3067 (House Kurita)
Plasma Rifle: 3068 (House Liao)
TAG: 2600 (Terran Hegemony), Lost 2835, 3033 (House Davion)
Targeting Computer: 3062 (House Davion)
Triple Strength Myomer: 3050 (House Liao)


The tech doesn't get shared or openly distributed until the pause between first and 2nd clan invasion (during the time they choose Khan Ulric of Clan Wolf (Warden) as the new Ilkhan and make plans).
So if they are discovered before 3050... and you get the loyalty for it... then you might be able to get access to some of the level 2 clan invasion tech.) Er Large, Pulse lasers, BAP, GECM, Endo steel, ferro fibrous, lbx10, uac5, Erppc, gauss, Streak SRM 2, Artemis IV, Arrow V, Double heat sink, XL engines, that's the only... new tech avail during the clan invasion, not necessarily avail until later... or until after. At least not full production wise.

[Eximar]

This is all irrelevant since every new player will start out in a Savannah Master.

[Knusern]

Let us start out in tech level 1 but, make level 2 available at a high cost to refelct its rare/experimental status.
As time moves on they can reduse level 2 costs making it easier for new players to catch up to veteran players


So when the clan hits the IS we can give them a fight

[IceTitan]

er ppc is 350000 c-bills a pop... Gauss 300000 imagine paying that everytime someone shoots it to pieces....

[Motionless]

Eximar, on 04 May 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

This is all irrelevant since every new player will start out in a Savannah Master.

There will be no Savannah Master in MWO.

Would be awesome though.

[wanderer]

monky, on 04 May 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

The existence of rare mech frames like the Raven already being included in the game fairly clearly rebutts this.

Sorry, but rare IS/Starleague tech is likely going to be in the game at launch, maybe pricey, but we'll see. Also you forgot SRM's and special equipment. DON'T FORGET THE SRMS!

Ravens were first rolling out during the 4th Succession War, and had enough of them that the Davions actually managed a widespread variant- solely from all the salvaged and captured ones they yoinked during the war and even afterwards.

They're actually not at all uncommon by 3049 in Capellan space, and in the tabletop game, they show up as a possible starter for Davion units as well due to the frequent yoinkings by Hanse and company.

Also, SW-era technology is uncommon but definintely NOT unheard of by 3049. The War of 3039 was a decade ago, where the Combine was fielding oft-downgraded but definitely Star League-era machines courtesy of their deal with Comstar. The Gauss rifle? Revived in 3040, Free Worlds League. LB-10X? 3035! Yep, it's retconned a bit since Lethal Heritage and the first stuff on the Clans came out, but by canon that's what's up. We'll be going live in an era where the weapons and gear from the Star League era is cutting edge and expensive to come by, where the first new designs and refits are JUST starting to come online...but the gear most definitely is in production and has been for years.

[Orzorn]

IceTitan, on 04 May 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

So if they are discovered before 3050... and you get the loyalty for it... then you might be able to get access to some of the level 2 clan invasion tech.) Er Large, Pulse lasers, BAP, GECM, Endo steel, ferro fibrous, lbx10, uac5, Erppc, gauss, Streak SRM 2, Artemis IV, Arrow V, Double heat sink, XL engines, that's the only... new tech avail during the clan invasion, not necessarily avail until later... or until after. At least not full production wise.

Actually, you know, I think that would be awesome to have tech somewhat separated by faction allegiance. So you would experience different tech when fighting different factions, which would both make sense and be an exciting prospect. Of course, they would have to be careful with how they did it, or else some factions might get more useful tech, but regardless, I think it would be an interesting idea.

[MaddMaxx]

IceTitan, on 04 May 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

er ppc is 350000 c-bills a pop... Gauss 300000 imagine paying that everytime someone shoots it to pieces....

Only issue there is if 1 RL Dollar = 100,000 C-Bills... no P2W please.

[Orzorn]

MaddMaxx, on 04 May 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Only issue there is if 1 RL Dollar = 100,000 C-Bills... no P2W please.

They've already confirmed that you don't purchase C-Bills directly. You purchase boosters, probably something like +10%, that increase the rate at which you get C-Bills from missions. The same goes for XP boosters. This means that you still have to play the game to get your items/xp. You still have to work for it. Which is the real point.

Edit: That doesn't necissarily mean that you might not be able to directly purchase mechs with cash, however. Even League of Legends had IP boosters, yet you could purchase heroes with real cash anyways. The reason being, of course, that IP could buy some stuff that money could not, so it was still worth it to get IP boosters.

Edited by Orzorn, 04 May 2012 - 11:12 AM.

[Goldhawk]

irish, on 04 May 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

One other thing to keep in mind is who had made what in this time frame.
Example
House Marik Tech: I have made this new chewing gum...it tastse just like 18 year old Jamesons and makes me so attractive to women I have not slept in 2 weeks.
House Davion Tech: Sweet! Can I have me a peice of that sweet sweet blend and girl gum please?
House Marik Tech: I am sorry I am to busy tasting like heaven and speaking to your kid sister. Maybe after the war is over?

For those that don't get my wonderful example. History Lession
The Apache hellicopter was first developed in 1975. It took until 1986 for the US to get a model they felt was up to the specs they wanted it at for general depoyment. Do you think their third step was to call Moscow and let them know not only how bad *** it was but here is a fully built factory to make the ****** just on the off chance some aliens pop down to hand us our teeth?

Dear God somebody gets me. Thank you. It took years to realize that the clan tech that was destroying the Inner Sphere forces was immensely similar to the Gray Death Memory core that was distributed across the inner sphere. Also, for the people who stated, "IT DID EXIST", in 3035, yes, prototypes and some Star League era mechs that survived. But the changing production lines and issuing field kits to the mechs in the field, changes quite a bit. Also, for those who said CASE existed, you didn't understand the issue. We are starting as peons. We are not starting as individuals with direct access to the Dragon, or the NAIS memory core, or directly posted on Defiance Industries. We start with 3025 tech, and as time will continue. The better stuff will come. Thats my point. Cry for your Gauss all you want when the game comes out, but it ain't there.