208 replies to this topic

[Terick]

Kobold, on 27 November 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Unsure why PGI felt the need to make ECM wildly more powerful/versatile than it is in standard BT universe.

It isn't. If anythign it is LESS powerful.

In BT universe the ECM cloud was an issue.

Example: Mech A and Mech B are teammates. Mech A has ECM and is behind Mech B. Mech B is barely in range of the ECM from Mech A. Mech Z (STREAK mech) comes around a corner and targets mech B. Mech Z is NOT in the ECM of Mech A. BUT, the ECM protecting Mech B still take affect. Meaning that the STREAKs couldn't lock on to Mech B. EVEN with mech Z not being in the ECM cloud. Now the firign mech ahs to be in the cloud. In addition with the way they are goign you can lock an ECM mech if you are outside of the ECM cloud. In the BT universe, you couldn't.

Phades, on 27 November 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

2 primary things bother me about this change.

The first involves the ECM/ECCM relationship and why the BAP does not fit into that function as well, which is canon from table top along with other communication suites or more advanced ECM like the guardian angel suite.

The second involves the limitation on which machines can carry the ECM. These aren't stealth armor utilizing machines with limited variants. Every chassis should be able to mount this equipment. It would be no different than limiting AMS to only a select few chassis, or ferro armor, or endo steel, or XL engines.... You get the idea.

They limited what mechs to carry it because of balance. Really I think the Jenners should come off the list. But that is my opinion.

I would like to see being able to switch an ECM for an ECCM or switch it mid combat. Proves very useful.

[Kobold]

Terick, on 27 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

It isn't. If anythign it is LESS powerful.

ECM does nothing to streaks in TT. ECM does nothing to direct fired missiles in TT (exception: Artemis IV negated). ECM does nothing to indirect fired missiles in TT (exception: NARC negated, C3 negated)

[Terick]

Stone Wall, on 27 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

In past MechWarrior games, ECM made locks harder to get. But this version makes locks impossible to get. That's pretty OP. But you guys complained about LRMs so hard, and this is what you have to deal with.

Past MWO games didn't have true ECM.

With the current discription you can still lock them. Just not if your in the 180m of the target. So, LRM mech sitting back 800+m with a spotter can still lock and fire.

Limiting the range of the ECM (completely balanced and follows universe and TT rules) makes it a hindrance, but no over powered.

Kobold, on 27 November 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

ECM does nothing to streaks in TT. ECM does nothing to direct fired missiles in TT (exception: Artemis IV negated). ECM does nothing to indirect fired missiles in TT (exception: NARC negated, C3 negated)

WOW... you have never read the rules then. STREAKs become normal SRMs if the targeting path goes THROUGH an ECM cloud. Go read the rules.

Edited by Terick, 27 November 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[Matthew Ace]

What I want to know is if we'll be able to carry 2 or more, then have 1 in counter and the other in disrupt at all times unless the situation calls for 2x disrupt/counter...

[Orzorn]

Terick, on 27 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

In addition with the way they are goign you can lock an ECM mech if you are outside of the ECM cloud.

You can, but just barely.

• Enemy Mechs will have to come within 1/4 the normal distance (200 m instead of 800 m, by default) for hidden Mechs to show up on their battlegrid and HUD.

If inside the 180 meter disruption bubble:

• You cannot share any targeting data with the rest of your team, and vice versa.

This means that you can NOT lock a mech in the cloud by yourself unless you are within 200 meters but outside 180 meters. A 20 meter buffer against a 128+ kp/h Jenner is essentially nothing.


If you have an ally giving you the info, they must go by the same rules, staying out of the disruption bubble but staying within the protection bubble. Even then, it will take an ally twice as long to achieve a lock, which by that time their communications have likely been shut off by that 128+ kp/h Jenner I mentioned.

The only way to take them out will definitely be to have another mech on your team with ECM, or to have several people positioned at exactly between 180 and 200 meters so that the Jenner can't disrupt all of them at once.

Edited by Orzorn, 27 November 2012 - 06:57 PM.

[p00k]

Matthew Ace, on 27 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

What I want to know is if we'll be able to carry 2 or more, then have 1 in counter and the other in disrupt at all times unless the situation calls for 2x disrupt/counter...

considering they only go in the head, my guess is "no"

Edited by p00k, 27 November 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[Franchi]

Terick, on 27 November 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

With the current discription you can still lock them. Just not if your in the 180m of the target. So, LRM mech sitting back 800+m with a spotter can still lock and fire.

As long as the spotter stays in a 20m band around the target. beyond 200 you cannot target inside 180 you cannot share info.

Given the speed of all but the atlas that is just not gonna happen

[Orzorn]

p00k, on 27 November 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

considering they only go in the head, my guess is "no"

What in the hell gave you that idea? ECM is 2 critical slots anyways. You literally can not fit them inside of a mech's head.

[Terick]

Orzorn, on 27 November 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

You can, but just barely.

• Enemy Mechs will have to come within 1/4 the normal distance (200 m instead of 800 m, by default) for hidden Mechs to show up on their battlegrid and HUD.

This is a reasont o carry a BAP. (All scouts should really be runnign BAP and ECM in my opinion) Since BAP increase detection range.


BAP is negated in the cloud. But with the increase in targeting range it can greatly help now.

p00k, on 27 November 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

considering they only go in the head, my guess is "no"

Please state where you saw the devs say this? If so... they ahve changed them from being 2 slot items to 1 slot items and then this will amke it ahrder to knock out...

One of the reasons I liked them being 2 slots was taht they were in areas taht could be hit and possibly crit killed.

Edited by Terick, 27 November 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[New Breed]

Take jenner off that list, streaks are the only way to reliably deal with them

[Croft]

yeah, i hope it's something that you can turn off too. I hate to sneak up behind a LRM boat and give myself away before I drop my alpha strike on their delicious back armor.

[Bolide]

Arg, Jenner is a fast attack hunter killer. Not a scout. Jenner shouldn't have advance electronics.


Need some advantage for my beloved Commando... Don't like jenners!!

[QuantumButler]

Jenners are already so damn powerful they don't need ECM, give it only to the metal Babby and Raven, otherwise Raven will remain hilariously useless compared to the Jenner.

[Kobold]

Terick, on 27 November 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

WOW... you have never read the rules then. STREAKs become normal SRMs if the targeting path goes THROUGH an ECM cloud. Go read the rules.

How did I never notice this before?

*checks pages 134-135 of Total Warfare under "ECM suite"*

*checks page 138 of Total Warfare under "Streak SRMs"*

Oh right, I never noticed it because you're wrong.

Edited by Kobold, 27 November 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[Orzorn]

Terick, on 27 November 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

This is a reasont o carry a BAP. (All scouts should really be runnign BAP and ECM in my opinion) Since BAP increase detection range.

You are wrong.

• The Beagle Active Probe is of no use in extending this range.

Edited by Orzorn, 27 November 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[Zylo]

Well it looks like the only way this issue will get any attention is by getting a large number of players to play the light mechs so people whine about them being OP and collisions are returned to balance the game.

[QuantumButler]

Zylo, on 27 November 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Well it looks like the only way this issue will get any attention is by getting a large number of players to play the light mechs so people whine about them being OP and collisions are returned to balance the game.

Devs don't care, do you see how many threads QQing about lights are on the front page every day? The devs simply don't care.

[Elizander]

The ability to equip an ECM suite to a Mech will be limited to specific variants. At first, only the following variants will be ECM capable:

• Commando COM-2D
  
• Raven RVN-3L
  
• Jenner JR7-D
  
• Cicada CDA-3M
  
• Atlas AS7-D-DC

[Agent of Change]

well at least it will do something to nerf streak boats

[Lindonius]

I don't think you'll be seeing many Jenner Ds with ECM considering that an ECM takes up 2 slots and the Jenner D only has one spare slot in it's head.

It's not letting me put it on mine in the mechlab. Unless I'm missing something.