249 replies to this topic

[TRIUMPH]

OP clearly needs to work on his builds. I mean come on, a cicada with a shotgun. What was he thinking? He must've been all out of bubblegum or something.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Captain Midnight, on 28 November 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

I never said it was hard, but is it as easy as pressing R?

With balistic/laser weapons you dont even need to press R to shoot at them.especially with AC/2 and Gauss you can shoot at 1,5 km with pinpoint accuracy and slugs have speed almost like lasers

[Wolfways]

Captain Midnight, on 28 November 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

As an LRM firer you simply move with your team and fire at the targets they call.

Since when did that not apply to the whole team? You know...teamwork.

I think your hatred of LRM's has you confused. That's possibly why you keep contradicting yourself.

I'll remember your name though, so if you're on my team i'll know we're one teammate down from the start.

[Anea Firsch]

Captain Midnight, on 28 November 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

I know, I can't wait. I am so excited for SSRMs to be so useless they are worse than a machine gun, and LRMs won't be much better. It's going to be glorious. The only thing I don't like is that Garth's Jenner is going to get ECM too just because he is a big baby and can't stand nerfing his own mech.

Sure, sounds awesome. We make LRM's and SSRM's basically useless because of ECM. Then, when they get around to putting in EECM's, all those things lost will be back again. So what everyone can do is load their mech down with anti warfare tech and leave nothing for fighting. Then we can all stand around and toss harsh language at each other while we wait for the next patch to "FIX" something else....lololol

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Thontor, on 28 November 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

I do agree that it should be harder to maintain a lock, but lets revisit this after ECM is in the game, it will be a game changer.

Yes everyone will play ECM mechs only with lazorz and dumb SRMs6( hey I hope my STK-3F( will get one too

[Captain Midnight]

Wolfways, on 28 November 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

Since when did that not apply to the whole team? You know...teamwork.

I think your hatred of LRM's has you confused. That's possibly why you keep contradicting yourself.

I'll remember your name though, so if you're on my team i'll know we're one teammate down from the start.

Are you kidding? You really think it's just as hard to stand a thousand meters back and hold down left trigger every time someone calls a target as opposed to having to expose yourself to enemy fire? Obviously everyone is shooting the primary, but if you can't see the difference between a cataphract 4xAC2 shooting the primary (moving hunchback at 892 meters, perpendicularly, massive transversal...) and an LRM boat who presses left trigger? You're blind.

Thontor, on 28 November 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

you do realize that pretty much describes lasers as well...

Yes, moving your mouse over the targeting square is exactly the same as holding a multiple second burn on a specific component. I'd say holding LRM lock is just as hard as using lasers, absolutely.

Edited by Captain Midnight, 28 November 2012 - 07:02 AM.

[Termius]

People seem to forget that this is a strategy based FPS, not a lone wolf one on one action game. LRM's may not require "skill" by your definition but they are perfect for supporting brawlers and poking at the enemies, making the upcoming battle much easier.

SSRM's should be moreso for killing lights and fast brawlers who are harder to hit, but ATM anyone can make a streakcat that will most likely stomp an unorganized group. The only thing that makes streakcats viable is that they are generally ignored by the main force and are free to pick off people one by one.

Two ways to balance this is either :

A ) Increase the ammo weight of SSRM's (If they are homing and do the same as SRM's then they should be bigger)

or

B ) Decrease damage (Smaller payload to fit the homing system)

That is all.

Edited by Termius, 28 November 2012 - 07:06 AM.

[Nightcrept]

I don't think captain midnight actually knows how to play a LRM boat.

Captain Midnight, on 28 November 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

Yes, moving your mouse over the targeting square is exactly the same as holding a multiple second burn on a specific component. I'd say holding LRM lock is just as hard as using lasers, absolutely.

If meant sarcastically which is how I took it the comment can only come from a bad LRM pilot.

It's exactly the same if not easier. You close to range with both weapon types, then choose your target and then fire. Then with both types of weapons you must HOLD your aim or lock.

In the case of LRMS you must hold your lock in some instances for a long time. From listening to your descriptions of lrming you must hit a lot of team mates.

Edited by Nightcrept, 28 November 2012 - 07:14 AM.

[Wolfways]

Captain Midnight, on 28 November 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

Are you kidding? You really think it's just as hard to stand a thousand meters back and hold down left trigger every time someone calls a target as opposed to having to expose yourself to enemy fire? Obviously everyone is shooting the primary, but if you can't see the difference between a cataphract 4xAC2 shooting the primary (moving hunchback at 892 meters, perpendicularly, massive transversal...) and an LRM boat who presses left trigger? You're blind.

Ah, so the only thing you don't like is that the LRM boat can fire while hidden.
But yes, other than one being able to have return fire they are the same. Actually if you are direct firing then you know where your target is. Firing from behind cover you have no idea where the target is going and could lose lock anytime.
And i've rarely seen a match where LRM's are firing from 1000m or Cataphracts are fighting at 800m+.

[KinLuu]

Higher tier tech outperforms lower tier tech?!

THE HORROR!

SSRMs should be better than SRMs in all cases and will be once Clantech arrives.

As will be SLRMs.

[TRIUMPH]

Why not just make every weapon not require pin point accuracy like lock on weapons so the skill ceiling is lowered for everyone and the game will be fair? We could have laser arms tug in the direction of an R locked enemy so one will always hit the center or side torso hard point. While we're at it we could have a circle tracking where a mech will be for AC and Guass too. Is that tactical simuwhatever enough?

If this doesn't sound totally uber pro and esport worthy then perhaps my first post in this topic deserves a looking at.

[IamSeanConnery]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 November 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

Here is the issue. You are not supposed to like me killing you in a loud gratuitous manner. I have beaten every build out there, and I have been in turn beaten by every build out there.

Also you get mad when someone tries to do whet you are doing? Lasers and Ballistics are fire and forget weapons. Even if a laser does not stay on target for the whole time you do damage. At 700 Meters away, behind a hill while you are running at up to 140KpH A missile boat captain has to keep lock on you for the entire flight time to you! So Missiles have the worst chance to hit a target out of every weapon in the game. But they take no skill? I can snipe your head from your shoulders with a Gauss with a few trigger pulls, But Missiles have to repeatedly deliver salvo after salvo to ablate your armor.

Like I said, I use every weapon at my disposal. Cry me a river, We have missiles that can fly down a street, swerve around cars and fly into an open window without cracking the glass in RL, and you are crying foul, cause me or a team mate have to follow you around the computer screen to blow up your avatar of destruction?

*SHRUG* My life expectancy in a fire fight as a Marine 2 decades ago was 2.4 seconds. QQ me a river. Mind fields will take no skill to kill you either, but it was/is the most commonly used weapon the Capellans use! and they also have a Catault that carries on board Artillery. So what will you do when/IF The Arrow IV packing Catapult comes into the game? There are a lot of ways to kill you guys we haven't even explored yet.

lol. This is a game. There is no fun if there is no risk of death/losing. So I have no problem with a fair fight. The difference between real life and game is the game is supposed to be fun. In real life you never want a fair fight. That's the whole point.

Let's not degenerate this down to black and whites. Of course it takes skill to shoot LRMs. However, they have a better learning curve and can be taught more than practiced. Trying to lead with AC fire then switching to lasers and holding the fire on one component then switching to SRM and leading yet again all while moving and evading and positioning one's self is no easy task while taking fire from the enemy. As an LRM boat captain you have less risk of being fired upon, and during a battle can enjoy other team members shared targets to lock onto with minimal risk of losing that lock. The only thing in the way are buidlings. Plus with teammates it's not difficult to tell when and when not to be firing on a target. You stand in position and hover your cursor near the carrot. You don't even need to be in line of sight if your teammates are. Which is nice and safe for you. In a closer battle, you stay further back and simply point and fire in their general direction for heavy DPS which strips armor and quickly destroys components. It's easier, not completely dumb.

[KinLuu]

Thontor, on 28 November 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

A SSRM2 should be better than a SRM2 definitely.

But should it be better than a SRM4 or 6? Is that the case in MWO?

SRM6s are very viable. In the hands of a skilled player a 6x SRM6 Cata is much more frightening than a 6x SSRM2 Cata.
And on most mechs with less than 3 missile slots, the SRM6 is the better choice as well.

Of course, a 6x SSRM6 Cata will be even better, once that tech arrives.

[mekabuser]

Asmosis, on 28 November 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

It doesnt take as much skill to start using lrm/ssrm vs other weapons. It takes just as much skill to master using them effectively as it does other weapons. The A1 streakcat requires you master jumpjet twists, altitude management etc to be a good pilot. Being able to hover in front of a gausscat just above its gauss angle takes about as much practice as leading targets with ac cannons. To be fair lasers require LESS skill than lrm/ssrms with the exception of PPC's assuming your ping isnt horrible. ssrms do weigh 50% more than srms, which might not seem like much right now, but thats only because we're stuck with the smallest ssrm launcher.

just how do lazers require less skill?
ssrm and lrms work like this, they automatically lock on and you fire. It doesnt get any easier than that. hell you dont even have to turn on your radar.
The direction this poll is taking illustrates a major problem with what the community expects.

[Bobzilla]

I don't get why people think lock on weapons aren't easier to use. Your movement barely affects your aim of them.
Have you ever missed with a non-lock on weapon by just a little bit? Well if it was a lock on weapon it would have hit as you don't need to aim, just point it in the general direction.
If a laser blast was as big as the missle targeting reticle, and all your targets were as big as the squares you need to keep that reticle in, then they would be as equaly easy to use. Conversly, if you had to have the acutal target mech (goes between the arm and torso, start lock on over again) in the exact center of the crosshairs to get a lock, they would be as hard to use.
I'm not saying they are OP or should be changed im just saying that I can't see why people don't think they are easier to use.
You don't even have to worry about evading or enemies rocking you if your useing LRM's because they don't need LOS making it even easier as you can stand perfectly still.

[Nightcrept]

Platinum Booger, on 28 November 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

lol. This is a game. There is no fun if there is no risk of death/losing. So I have no problem with a fair fight. The difference between real life and game is the game is supposed to be fun. In real life you never want a fair fight. That's the whole point.

Let's not degenerate this down to black and whites. Of course it takes skill to shoot LRMs. However, they have a better learning curve and can be taught more than practiced. Trying to lead with AC fire then switching to lasers and holding the fire on one component then switching to SRM and leading yet again all while moving and evading and positioning one's self is no easy task while taking fire from the enemy. As an LRM boat captain you have less risk of being fired upon, and during a battle can enjoy other team members shared targets to lock onto with minimal risk of losing that lock. The only thing in the way are buidlings. Plus with teammates it's not difficult to tell when and when not to be firing on a target. You stand in position and hover your cursor near the carrot. You don't even need to be in line of sight if your teammates are. Which is nice and safe for you. In a closer battle, you stay further back and simply point and fire in their general direction for heavy DPS which strips armor and quickly destroys components. It's easier, not completely dumb.

It's not very safe now a days...lol.

As soon as you fire your lrms a super jenner pilot will usually home in on your location and then you spend the rest of the game doing the fly swat dance. It's rare to get many games where you don't end up with a light mech in your grill.

[Nightcrept]

mekabuser, on 28 November 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

just how do lazers require less skill?
ssrm and lrms work like this, they automatically lock on and you fire. It doesnt get any easier than that. hell you dont even have to turn on your radar.
The direction this poll is taking illustrates a major problem with what the community expects.

Simple. Lazors once aimed are fire and forget, they have no ammo limit and can be used to pin point a target.
Lrms are a general area weapon. You must hold your lock so they aren't true fire and forget and are easily avoided.
ssrm's are a bit different but I simply don't think they are that powerful.

Bobzilla, on 28 November 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

I don't get why people think lock on weapons aren't easier to use. Your movement barely affects your aim of them.
Have you ever missed with a non-lock on weapon by just a little bit? Well if it was a lock on weapon it would have hit as you don't need to aim, just point it in the general direction.
If a laser blast was as big as the missle targeting reticle, and all your targets were as big as the squares you need to keep that reticle in, then they would be as equaly easy to use. Conversly, if you had to have the acutal target mech (goes between the arm and torso, start lock on over again) in the exact center of the crosshairs to get a lock, they would be as hard to use.
I'm not saying they are OP or should be changed im just saying that I can't see why people don't think they are easier to use.
You don't even have to worry about evading or enemies rocking you if your useing LRM's because they don't need LOS making it even easier as you can stand perfectly still.

In the case of LRMS you must keep lock which means you need line of sight. Generally that means your going to get hit by a gause a few times and or chased down by a jenner. If you attempt to fire non line of sight then your depending on your team mates which if your pugging means they are most likely in a death spin and your going to end up hitting your team mate a long with your target.

[Anea Firsch]

Stone Wall, on 28 November 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

I can't wait for people use more Brawling mechs. Then we can see who really has this "skill."

You know, I find it rather interesting when I see all this complaining about who's got skill, who sucks, who's a lousy player and so on but when I'm on the battlefield. its not just the "so called lousy players with LRM's" sitting in the back because they have a lack of skills. Let's not divert people's attention away from the Guasspults.....LRM"s, most times, can't even get a lock at the kind of range guass and other long range ballistics can make. Heck, I've been taken out by guass weapons before I've even seen where they were coming from.... So if one wants to get technical, it really doesn't take much more skill to use a guass at range than LRM's. Like come on ,really!? Does it really take any more skill sitting in a mech with two guass cannons? Nunh unh!

As for brawling mech? It won't make a difference. There will be a few people, like me, who will take to such a thing and despite what one may think, there isn't much skill in that either. Oh, don't get me wrong. It does take some skill to do some things in this game but not at the level some of you CLAIM it does. let's not confuse luck for skill which so many people do. In the dance 'o death, all the skill in the world doesn't prevent one from being taken out with a lucky shot.. Oh, not to mention that a better computer also works in one's favor..

So before any of you nay sayers starting yapping off that maybe I use LRM's because I suck or anything like that, don't bother!! I use all weapons and am pretty good at all weapons... well, maybe not lasers or ppc's...lol I usually put them on for amusement. And of course, I love my SSRM's. and not because of auto lock on-though its nice to have- but because, in a protracted fight, they dish out lots of damage. Well, when one has five or six of them....

The best that we should be hoping for is the company finds a good balance for weapons. To those of you who think otherwise, you might want to delve into the world of Battletech/Mech Warrior to learn that all weapons have their place and purpose. If some people don't like having to deal with missile boats, then adjust your tactics accordingly. Stalkers, Longbows, Catapults and Archers are but a few mechs that ARE missile boats and meant to "condition" targets from distance. What?

Let's face it!! Truth be told, the only people who want change and bark the loudest are the ones who wish to continue to sit atop the food chain. And with that remark, let the angry, hostilities begin... *snickers*

[Choombatta]

Captain Midnight, on 28 November 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

Yes, moving your mouse over the targeting square is exactly the same as holding a multiple second burn on a specific component. I'd say holding LRM lock is just as hard as using lasers, absolutely.

Ok now I understand why you think the way you do.
You think you can fire LRMs and walk away, but have to keep your crosshairs on the target if firing a laser.
You have to keep your crosshairs for LRMs the entire flight time also, and for a much longer time than lasers.
But yes, lasers are the Uberskill weapon in this game, and no new player could possibly master that skill in 15 minutes of playing.

[IamSeanConnery]

Thontor, on 28 November 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

i never said that they were exactly the same. I said your description of "pointing your mouse at an enemy mech" applies to lasers as well.

Riiiiight.. Which is why over half of people who are shooting lasers can't even keep most of the beam duration on any part of the mech at all let alone a single component. Just watch people in spectator. Maybe your argument holds up for stationary vs stationary
Getting a lock is like horseshoes and hand grenades. Close is good enough. Plus once you are locked it's even easier. With SSRMs you could be facing 90 degrees away and still get the shot off and hit.

Let's stop fooling ourselves here and just admit deep down inside that LRMs and SSRMs, although requiring skill, require less skill to operate than direct fire weapons in most scenarios. Ahhhhh. I feel better now. Don't you?