191 replies to this topic

[Terbius]

do you know how hard it is to mask/reroute your IP? its not very.

[MaddMaxx]

Paul Inouye, on 08 May 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

We are very well aware of cheating in on-line games. We will never discuss our security measures with the public. Just rest assured we are taking every possible precaution to ensure that cheating is kept near to zero and will be monitoring all systems to track and ban players who cheat.

It is always gratifying to hear the "Pink Thunder" have a serious moment, as few as they are, when a truly serious subject arises.

Go Instanced Gaming....

[Listless Nomad]

Aegis Kleais™, on 08 May 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Sorry, but I don't believe in the Blacksheep mentality (where the negative actions of 1 person affect those who are not responsible)


You're missing the point. In a shared PC, blacklisting the hardware due to 1 person's actions negatively impacts people who haven't performed any bannable offense.

It would be like a drunk driver killing an innocent person in a Honda Civic, so the Government confiscates all Honda Civics from everyone. The black sheep needs to be punished, yes, but not the innocent consumer.

I have no problem with having a different opinion than you aegis however that is not a very good analogy. It's like a father owning a gun, and having his teenage son steal the gun and murder someone. The government then takes the gun away.

The family should police their son and tell them that cheating/ murder is wrong/illegal. If they can't do that then I'm fine with an outside source stepping in and removing the issue.

[Aegis Kleais]

Listless Nomad, on 08 May 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

I have no problem with having a different opinion than you aegis however that is not a very good analogy. It's like a father owning a gun, and having his teenage son steal the gun and murder someone. The government then takes the gun away.

The family should police their son and tell them that cheating/ murder is wrong/illegal. If they can't do that then I'm fine with an outside source stepping in and removing the issue.

Wait a minute, I don't think we're getting what a "blacksheep" is. Let me expound just for clarity.

A kid in class uses a bathroom pass to play hookey. Once he is found out, rather than punishing the child, the bathroom pass is revoked and no one can use it. The offending child is the "blacksheep" whom due to their actions, have now ended up punishing people who were using the pass to take a wicked dump.... er...whatever kids do in the bathroom... hopscotch er something...

The thing is, 1 PC is used by, let's say, 4 people. If 1 person cheats (not that the others condone the behavior or even know about it), but if PGI simply hardware bans that PC, then the other 3 innocent players are paying for the misdeeds of little Timmy. And, yes, Timmy gets a whoopin the likes of which his hiney has never seen before, but it still wouldn't be fair (IMO) to the others.

[Rustic Dude]

Flawed game as it can be, World of Tanks did hit the nail in regards to this issue.

Every calculation is server-sided. The only way to cheat is to hack the game's own server, which, in any case, it isn't likely.
Of course, that could mean additional load for the servers, and maybe some lag between what the servers move and what the client sees, but as I'm no expert on this I wouldn't know if it would be worthwhile.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Im all for White Hats looking for every possible cheat, bug, hack, dupe, and exploit and reporting them to the devs. It makes me sick to see great games turn to crap because hacks and cheats have made it unplayable as it was designed. That is not victory.

[MadBoris]

TK"s are what I hate more than anything, just flash me their IP, I'll drag them out of their house and show them what TK is. (That's one security measure to consider)

I think a simple combination of things to make it UN-enjoyable for them.
Good tiered matchmaking.
Server side auto banning for intentional team damage.
An immediate good vote kick system for players and a report system (like WOT, you right click, report player for something in particular and they get investigated, apparently).
Obviously we need to be able to save replays to prove cheats if they want communities help there.

One of the first things we need is good matchmaking, not only for some good game longevity, but to help in cheating.
There will be leveling of some sort I imagine, even if it's an arbitrary number that does absolutely nothing, like in Tribes.
If the matchmaker, lets say at level 10, can start to put people in new grouping, like level 10-30, that should filter out many cheaters before they get to that second tier. First Tier would be noobs 1-10, cheaters will show themselves here likely at some point.
Use a WOT like server system that just keeps track of team damage to monitor TK's and idiots, it bans them.

Level 10 -30 should be able to stay pretty clean of cheaters and TK's.
The 1st tier 1-10 players would have to deal with them (they aren't going away, new exploits will be found), that's where they get identified and banned, it's kind of like a gritty basic training to get past tier 1. Cheaters will not play nice to grind for ten levels to get to 2nd tier, then finally start to cheat, only to have to start a new character after banned. The grind in this game will be significant, there are not 50+ mechs, you won't be unlocking several mechs a week for free, that is for sure.

With tiered matchmaking, auto server banning for intentional team damage, the first tier will have to deal with cheats but it should give the community and server ample time to detect many of them well before the get into 2nd tier matches. The 2nd and 3rd tier matches and above should be able to have good mature play up the line.
These poor excuse for humans would get tired of it after a while, and by then the next new game would come out and they would be there instead. Atleast this will get a good majority early, granted pro cheaters trying to climb ladders might be more difficult.
I would get tired of investing a hundred hours into a character, only to have to do it again to just get the same gear so I could cheat.

[MadBoris]

Rustic Dude, on 08 May 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Flawed game as it can be, World of Tanks did hit the nail in regards to this issue.

WOt got a tremendous amount right, out of the gates the game seems phenomenal. It takes an easy week to start learning some of the deeper mechanics. Then the greed really starts to mess with you. The grind, the poor matchmaking to make your tank feel inadequate on the field, the new tank feeling weaker than the previous tier, actually costing you money to have top tier tanks (that's serious BS, but after you invested 500 hours many will bend over for it, and they count on people feeling they invested too much to throw it away), certain bugs just going un adressed while they give people more tanks to grind so they shut up.

Wot is an awesome game, could be amazing, unfortunately someone making decisions is looking only short sighted, and some players don't long stick around, however much they would want to, but it works for WOT devs and they make money.

Tribes is one of the best F2p systems in not F'ng with your head F2p games out there. A lot of their F2P mechanics are great, I just hope they can advance to the nexxt chapter of what is needed.

PGI would be remiss not to be exploring all these other games that do things well in detail, I'm sure they did, and hopefully they are wise enough to take the best ideas and improve on them.

Edited by MadBoris, 08 May 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Prophanity, on 08 May 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

First off let me just say how excited I am to see this dream of so many come true. Piranha, we are truely not worthy.
Secondly, who do I have to sleep with to get into closed beta?

Back onto topic. The bane of F2P games and the stain upon all PC gamers everywhere - cheaters. Generally speaking these are a bunch of sad individuals running a script of some form to give them an instant advantage, aim bot and the like.

I've seen several free to play games running from avergage to good with serious potential brought to ruin because of this normally small group of people. You can bet your botom dollar/sterling/euro/yen etc that this group already has their beady little eyes on this game.

What steps will be taken to prevent these kind of shinanigans going on? And how will Piranha get around the fact that a banned member of the community can simply create a new account and get right back to it?

Fortunately, subscription based games have never had any cheaters, exploitable bugs/mechanics, gold farmers, hideous balance issues, greifers, powergrinding crybabies, or sociopathically antisocial members... [/sarcasm]

[Magnificent Bastard]

It seems like half the fanbase of MechWarrior is used to cheating... No Heat and Unlimited Ammo servers abound. I look forward to reading the inevitable complaint threads when these players overheat and run out of ammo in MWO.

[Solis Obscuri]

Aegis Kleais™, on 08 May 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

In a shared PC, blacklisting the hardware due to 1 person's actions negatively impacts people who haven't performed any bannable offense.

It would be like a drunk driver killing an innocent person in a Honda Civic, so the Government confiscates all Honda Civics from everyone. The black sheep needs to be punished, yes, but not the innocent consumer.

Oh c'mon, it's hilarious every time a game IP bans an entire college campus network!

[RedHorseman]

If its server side a good way to **** cheater of is nerf their weapons. If you do too much damage to friendliest you have all weapon damage set to zero for the round.

[DegeneratePervert]

Hopefully since the game itself is running CryEngine3, hacks will take a bit of time to come out. As opposed to, say, Tribes, which is running the Unreal Engine, and is a total hack-fest.

[Deathz Jester]

Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase no Punkbuster.

also Paul's sig made me chuckle.

[Ogresan]

I believe Paul has a Hunchback in his garage at home for this very purpose. Why else all the ammo?

[Zakatak]

All reported cheaters get to be Paul's bondsmen.

[Victor Morson]

Paul Inouye, on 08 May 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

We are very well aware of cheating in on-line games. We will never discuss our security measures with the public. Just rest assured we are taking every possible precaution to ensure that cheating is kept near to zero and will be monitoring all systems to track and ban players who cheat.

Would it be alright to get on my knees and beg that you stay as many miles away from Punkbuster as possible, and never consider the horror that is that consumer-punishing placebo?

[trycksh0t]

Lt Trevnor, on 08 May 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

You are all forgetting something very important. Comstar is always watching, waiting. Retribution will be swift for those whom try to circumvent the Comstar adepts...

Watch and listen lest ye be converted...

Yes they are. And they've got the partially-lubricated Atlases on stand-by for those who attempt to circumvent the Edicts of the Blessed Order.

[Insidious Johnson]

wait you guys TRUST Paul? The king of Trolls, Paul? You want Paul to have a bondsman corp comprised of 100% cheaters? I'm firmly against arming trolls and giving them armies, since to be fair, you'd have to do it for everyone. That and investing absolute power into the hands of a single individual is the quickest route to tyranny! Balance.... aut reducere ad absurdum

[Rejarial Galatan]

Anyone here ever have PB kick YOU for what IT 'thought' was cheating, but was infact legit? I have. Got a LUCKY sniper kill way back when in Americas Army Operations game on the "Bridge" map, game booted me the instant I got the kill... Punkbuster is as dangerous to legit players as it is friendly to hackers....