125 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

I am a Jenner, Hunchback, Catapult & Atlas Pilot. I should be able to put ECM in any and all my rides.

[Relic1701]

Described on Sarna as a guerrilla fighter, if any Jenner variant should have ECM, it should be the K.

[Voridan Atreides]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 November 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

I am a Jenner, Hunchback, Catapult & Atlas Pilot. I should be able to put ECM in any and all my rides.

Why?

[superteds]

it doesn't really matter if it's a scout or not. ECM was meant to be the 'thing' that made it worth dropping with a raven over a jenner. Now that the jenners getting ECM (which if you care for canon or whatever, it didn't have) there is again, no reason to bring a raven.

[Voridan Atreides]

So jenner with ECM...there is no point in getting any small mech except the jenner....that just sucks...

[Destoroyah]

Kousagi, on 28 November 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

So what is the main thing that anti-scouts and guerrilla's need to do to be effective? Hide, not be seen, to be able to sneak, and strike before they are noticed. What does ECM do? Hides mechs... Seems to fit the design concept to me.

the raven 3L and Jenner D pretty much have the same hardpoints, raven has better missile setups, where the jenner has a bad missile setup, but gains 1 energy. Though the only argument i could see is to move the ECM to the Jenner K, so that its a trade off for the raven to jenner, 1 energy for 1 missile.

The Raven 3L does not trade a missle with the jenner D the D has 2 missles too and a bonus energy to boot, and those missles are usually 2 streaks or a pair of srm 4's perfect for skirmishes a Jenners forte. A Raven 3L might be able to mount larger launchers but doing so will come at a cost. Firing missles from the removed narc launcher will take forever with large launchers as it will only fire 1 missle at a time making srm's unreliable burst and even sustained damage and lrms will take forever to finish launching. Also the D has JJ the 3L doesn't. The jenner K is a more appropriate comparison as it loses a missle to get a laser, but still has jumpjets and a bonus module slot over the 3L so giving it ECM will still keep it over the jenners over the ravens.

Edited by Destoroyah, 28 November 2012 - 08:21 AM.

[Hobo Dan]

The Raven needs ECM to be useful imo. The Jenner does not.

Drop the Jenner variant that has it and add it to another Raven variant.

[Kousagi]

Relic1701, on 28 November 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

Described on Sarna as a guerrilla fighter, if any Jenner variant should have ECM, it should be the K.

it says it is well suited to. Yes, it was designed to work behind enemy lines and not depend on supply lines, but that does not make it any less of a scout. Then you might want to look at the chassis... its says scout. Just saying.

[Lord Jay]

Tuonela, on 28 November 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

Put it on the K, not the D, it would solve a lot of issues and make that variant useful.

QFT

I'd rather not see the Jenner with ECM at all, but if we must have a Jenner variant with ECM, it should be the K.

[Joseph Mallan]

Voridan Atreides, on 28 November 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

Why?

Because it's just a piece of equipment. You don't think I want all the protection I can have for my Catapult? What ***** wouldn't want to have every available protection possible? Whether or not I would put it on all my Mechs... Gauss is the best gun in the game and My Atlas has one and I don't use SSRMS cause I don't like the 2's (not enough bang for my taste). I will not be mad cause everyone wants ECM in their ride, I'll just find a different way to kill 'em all!

[Voridan Atreides]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 November 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Because it's just a piece of equipment. You don't think I want all the protection I can have for my Catapult? What ***** wouldn't want to have every available protection possible? Whether or not I would put it on all my Mechs... Gauss is the best gun in the game and My Atlas has one and I don't use SSRMS cause I don't like the 2's (not enough bang for my taste). I will not be mad cause everyone wants ECM in their ride, I'll just find a different way to kill 'em all!

Other people use SSRMs though...stop thinking about yourself. Making ECM available to every mech is like making the best weapon in the game available to every mech. Everyone will have it. What will this do? Not only ruin the game but make it MUCH less fun because the only way you will win is by having that weapon. Is the what you want?

Edited by Voridan Atreides, 28 November 2012 - 08:23 AM.

[Kousagi]

Destoroyah, on 28 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

The Raven 3L is does not trade a missle with the jenner D the D has 2 missles too and those are usually 2 streaks or a pair of srm 4's A Raven 3L might be able to mount larger launchers but does will come at a cost. Firing missles from the removed narc launcher will take forever with large launchers as it will only fire 1 missle at a time making srm's unreliable burst and even sustained damage and lrms will take forever to finish launching. Also the D has JJ the 3L doesn't. The jenner K is a more appropriate comparison as it loses a missle to get a laser, but still has jumpjets and a bonus module slot over the 3L so giving it ECM will still keep it over the jenners over the ravens.

never said the D trades slots with the 3L, only that the K and 3L did and the D gains 1 energy over the 3L.

Edited by Kousagi, 28 November 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[Havyek]

I don't think that the Jenner needs an ECM suite. If ANY Jenner would/should get it, I'd say the K since it's basically a D minus a missile slot.

However best would be that the Jenner does NOT get the ECM suite, and this would put it back in it's role as harasser/scout hunter.

Plus how deadly would a team of Jenner/Raven or Jenner/Commando be with 1 doing the harassing and 1 jamming a streak or LRM boat?

[Orkhepaj]

Kousagi, on 28 November 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

it says it is well suited to. Yes, it was designed to work behind enemy lines and not depend on supply lines, but that does not make it any less of a scout. Then you might want to look at the chassis... its says scout. Just saying.

it says poorly balanced , not scout

[dal10]

Jenners with ECM will be less dangerous honestly, the weight has to come from somewhere. 2 heat sinks a streak 2 downgrading the medium lasers to small, you are going to have to lose something somewhere in order to fit it.

[Comassion]

superteds, on 28 November 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

it doesn't really matter if it's a scout or not. ECM was meant to be the 'thing' that made it worth dropping with a raven over a jenner. Now that the jenners getting ECM (which if you care for canon or whatever, it didn't have) there is again, no reason to bring a raven.

An excellent and succinct case. The Raven is intended, within cannon, to be the Electronic Warfare 'mech. It should be able to do things that other 'mechs cannot do. It already has the disadvantages in terms of weapon hardpoints, speed, and Jumpjets that offeset this bonus - now it needs the bonus.

[Destoroyah]

Just decause the jenner is a scout doesn't mean it is in the same category of scout as the raven and doesn't mean it should get all the toys.

The jenner is currently like a schoolyard bully dominating the playground roughing up all the weaker lights cause they aren't big enough, fast enough, or smart enough to evade or fight back.

[Comassion]

dal10, on 28 November 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Jenners with ECM will be less dangerous honestly, the weight has to come from somewhere. 2 heat sinks a streak 2 downgrading the medium lasers to small, you are going to have to lose something somewhere in order to fit it.

Most D variants can just take off AMS. Hardly a significant sacrifice for the benefits, since they won't need AMS anymore.

Even if the cost needed to come from somewhere else, the massive benefits of being untargetable beyond 200 meters would be worth a weapon. Jenners with ECM are thus far more dangerous than those without, because you're less likely to notice them sneaking around you.

Edited by Comassion, 28 November 2012 - 08:36 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Comassion, on 28 November 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

How good? It makes you immune to LRMs.

No. TAG and NARC still function as usual, and you still take damage as usual. This should be changed to effectively making you immune to LRMs from half way across the map unless the LRM boat has a spotter.

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And SSRMs.

Don't conflate SSRMs with streakcats. Streakcats are the only ones seriously effected by this, and only if they are ramboing.

Any lights with streaks will be able to fire normally as they'll be running counter while engaging lights with ECM on. Same with the atlases that are likely to be running ECM will most likely play anti-light for the front line mechs or fire support.

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And keeps you off radar so that nobody will know where you are.

I wasn't aware that ECM also blinded you and made your heat signature disappear. That's nifty.

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I made the poll option for Jenner pilots specifically so that we can get opinions from people who already pilot this 'mech. I'm sure some will opt for it because they'd love to go over the top in terms of power, but it is my hope that most will see the merits of my argument and agree that ECM does not belong to us.

Cause clearly Jenner pilots who vote for it only want to be overpowered and not realize that the biggest strength the jenners have right now is 2 free tons because jump jets don't work properly and realize that in order to run BAP, ECM, and jump normally they're going to have to sacrifice weapons, heat management, or speed to maintain what we can do right now.

Stop blowing this **** outta proportion, it's not the end of the damn world.

[Destoroyah]

Kousagi, on 28 November 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

never said the D trades slots with the 3L, only that the K and 3L did and the D gains 1 energy over the 3L. Also, the K does not have JJ's

The K does have jump jets I just checked my K.
The problem as I see it playing as jenners up to master on all 3 is that if pitted a jenner against any other non-jenner light fresh mech vrs fresh mech(all custom of course not stock scrubs). the jenner almost always won. The 3L was sort of a threat to my K and F, but only if I was having bad lag or the raven pilot was really really good.shot.