176 replies to this topic

[Kanatta Jing]

Major Tom, on 09 May 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Again, what makes anyone think there is a magical commander chair?

A commander is a skill choice (like attacker, defender, and scout). Why would I not be able to use my commander skills (like setting waypoints, calling artillery, etc) in any match?

Well there comes to be a conflict if two people are handing out waypoints in a lance that might be made of random people. (There is an XP reward for going to a waypoint remember)

A Command Module can be an artillery strike.

An Attacker Module can be a + 6% bonus to range with LRM's

If we express that in D&D terms to show the balance issues... It's Fireball 1/day vs +1 to hit with a bows.

One is much better then the other. I don't think we can let everyone have artillery strikes loaded.

[Yeach]

Um. Even thought it may be on a server, the commander might just end up being the person who chooses to host and forms up the lance/company.
He/She then would choose which battles/mission to participate in after forming the lance/company.

The only current game I can think of this happening is Mass Effect 3 where someone chooses to host and 3 other players join in.

This option isn't given in the poll.

[Sassori]

That's because we do not host our own games. They will have (I believe) their own server(s) to ensure that the data they get is 100% accurate. The idea of individual machines hosting games is kinda screwy cuz if the host loses power (Or ragequits) then the whole battle is lost, whereas if they control the server than it's not a problem. At least for data purposes.

As to who should be the Commander? The guy with the best Commander oriented setup/modules. He's clearly designed for it and paid the tonnage for it. Probably better for it than some random guy.

[Yeach]

Christopher Dayson, on 09 May 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

That's because we do not host our own games. They will have (I believe) their own server(s) to ensure that the data they get is 100% accurate. The idea of individual machines hosting games is kinda screwy cuz if the host loses power (Or ragequits) then the whole battle is lost, whereas if they control the server than it's not a problem. At least for data purposes.

As to who should be the Commander? The guy with the best Commander oriented setup/modules. He's clearly designed for it and paid the tonnage for it. Probably better for it than some random guy.

Its not hosting as per se. Its hosting as being the one organizing the lance/company.

[FC Desoya]

There was no option for super soakers at 10 paces.

I'll be curious to see how this is implemented. I would guess at this point they have some
idea in the pipe so Im willing to wait and see.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Suicidal *****, on 08 May 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Raj,

The system won't be able to choose commanders based on ability, since ability to command entails mental qualities like logic, knowledge of the game, ability to multi-task, judgement of others' strengths and weaknesses, level headedness, and compatible style.

The only possible metric the servers could use to decide the above, is a quality ranking system of how well each commander candidate did while commanding before. But that's not really much, since the other players are still going to be a huge variable.

Frankly, if someone has a decent ability to lead, it will probably show up pretty quickly in the pre-game discussion. If the guy turns out to be a doofus we'll just tune him out.

I suspect that those Ranger guys who already have over a hundred recruits are going to turn out some pretty good commanders, however. Practice does help, and a good commander can turn a battle. And I'm sure they're churning command candidates pretty quickly over there. God knows, I will not follow orders if I KNOW they will end with me going splat for no other reason than the CO was a poorly doin his.her job.

ok, in fairness, I wasnt specific. By ability, I mean what is in your tree of skills provided by the game. Artillery strike, air support, stuff like that ya know? Make the system choose by what the characters mech skill tree is or something. otherwise this is gonna be well, not friendly out there.

[StaIker]

Major Tom, on 09 May 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Again, what makes anyone think there is a magical commander chair?

A commander is a skill choice (like attacker, defender, and scout). Why would I not be able to use my commander skills (like setting waypoints, calling artillery, etc) in any match?

You people are talking about a person giving verbal orders, which is only relavent to teams with a voice server (probably 3rd party like teamspeak, ventrillo, skype). In which case there will not be any interaction in the deployment area, and the "commander" in question would not even need any commander skills.

Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people share this concept, that commanding other people is no more difficult than clicking a button in MechCommander to set a waypoint for the AI. I can tell you right now that a lot of people will look at the first waypoint set down and if it's no good for their weapons package, they'll completely ignore the commander from that point on. Any monkey can set a waypoint. It takes skill and judgement to create a tactical advantage by the positioning of your force and I doubt even 1 person in 100 has it. That is actually why a command position exists, to create an advantage for the team. If all the commander actually does in MWO is lay down stupid waypoints like a child with its first toy then "command" will be a rather limited role because the 11 other people on the team will be doing what works, not walking around the map like dogs on a leash.

[Mike Silva]

I want a magical chair.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I know. PGI has already chosen the method by which those who will lead as commanders shall. A BIG problem with us SELF choosing PREmatch who will be 'commander' is HOW do we limit THEM to using the commander abilities. Which is why I opene with what I just did this post.

[Akaryu]

if you cannot have a set commander for a lance then i would prefer it be chosen by vote

[Rejarial Galatan]

How would this stop say for example, ME, who in this example wasnt voted in, from using a commander ability if I have one? see, us choosing just will not work. No way to limit the ability use.

[Major Tom]

StaIker, on 09 May 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people share this concept, that commanding other people is no more difficult than clicking a button in MechCommander to set a waypoint for the AI. I can tell you right now that a lot of people will look at the first waypoint set down and if it's no good for their weapons package, they'll completely ignore the commander from that point on. Any monkey can set a waypoint. It takes skill and judgement to create a tactical advantage by the positioning of your force and I doubt even 1 person in 100 has it. That is actually why a command position exists, to create an advantage for the team. If all the commander actually does in MWO is lay down stupid waypoints like a child with its first toy then "command" will be a rather limited role because the 11 other people on the team will be doing what works, not walking around the map like dogs on a leash.

Do you know what even harder than being a good commander. Comming to a consensus on who should be in charge.

If there were a "Lance Commander" and "Company Commander" position what special benefits should they receive, and how would those differ from command skills and command modules? What special benefit do you give the scout, or the assault?

[Kanatta Jing]

StaIker, on 09 May 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

I can tell you right now that a lot of people will look at the first waypoint set down and if it's no good for their weapons package, they'll completely ignore the commander from that point on.

If I'm commanding, you'll have to clear your weapons package first. I don't want your Awesome in my IF lance or your Catapult in my Close Quarters lance.

Now that I think about it, the Mech Bay is going to make Commanding really hard if I have to double check to make sure people aren't turning their Hunchbacks into Gauss Snipers.

[StaIker]

Major Tom, on 09 May 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

Do you know what even harder than being a good commander. Comming to a consensus on who should be in charge.

If there were a "Lance Commander" and "Company Commander" position what special benefits should they receive, and how would those differ from command skills and command modules? What special benefit do you give the scout, or the assault?

To be actually useful, the command abilities should center around information networking and coordination tools. The ability to designate targets for the entire lance/company at a click, a display of what each mech in the team has so he can use them to best effect rather than guess at what capabilities he may have and how to use them, a set of orders that are relevant to real time combat, some pre-programed and perhaps a few custom orders that can be written in the lobby before the game... you get the idea.

[MaddMaxx]

I can foresee a lot of hard earned installed "Command Modules" going to waste in the PUG arena.

[Claw55]

Team should be able to vote for a commander, with a minimum requirement of 1-2 commander skills. Teams such as merc corps should be able to assign a commander prior to the start of the match.

[SideSt3p]

I didn't vote. Reason being I don't think it's really going to matter.

I look at the current state of gaming and most people (myself included) sometimes just don't care. You get some guy in "command" who's a complete doushe and makes the rest of the team hate him because he has most "experience" or highest rank and it doesn't actually MEAN anything.

I think that it'll probably be a first-come-first-served system. If you apply to be commander first, you have a higher chance to get it, or you can vote to "mutiny" or run against him. Think, Battlefield 2142.

But in general, I think people are going to do what they want and try to have fun in their own way. So I'll try to stay laid back and just enjoy having a Mech Game at ALL. And then go all 'srs face' when I queue up with my friends in our own lance.

[Havoc2]

If we are going to be dropping 12v12 matches, I hope that Command roles are broken down into Lance Commander and Company Commander. Would add another PITA decision to make as to who is Co. commander and who are the lance commanders, but would make co-ordination so much easier/better between lances to have a Co. commander who can set waypoints for support lance, recon path and brawlers.

Could also lead to some truly EPIC ragequits and nerdwars.

[HeIIequin]

TheRulesLawyer, on 09 May 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't want to see a vote in pub games. Being commander becomes a catch 22. If people don't know you as commander, you won't get voted, but how do you get any experience without being commander. Buy a commander upgrade and do it randomly for pubs. For merc units, and premade companies votes are fine.

^^ This. If you queue up for a pub match then the commander role is randomly chosen from those who applied. Ideally, the matchmaking system will refrain from putting 5 commanders into the same match (so 4 are out of luck). If it's smart (and the queue times bearable), every commander who queues up will get their own match where they can be commander in. Only problem there is if your teams commander quits or D/C's, and you don't have a commander to fill in for him. I guess this is where picking some commander modules, but queuing up as a regular unit can be helpful.

If the matchmaking system is really awesome, queuing up as a 'partied' unit will match you up against a similar enemy 'party'. The game will recognize it as such, and allow both teams to choose their commanders before battle, since it knows your team knows each other. The same should apply for the more important matches over planet territory.

I'm not sure about being able to 'mutiny' on your teams commander though. People will just vote to kick your commander out asap so they can get the role. Besides, I doubt many of the pug matches will last terribly long anyways (what, 15-20 min?). When it's over, you get a new queue, with all new people as well.

And if there is no magical chair, then just grab whatever modules you like and do what you want. No one can stop you, only ignore you.

Edited by HeIIequin, 10 May 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[Monky]

Only people with commander gear/perks/ preference (if there is a field to indicate) should be selected, but it should be random beyond that.

Why?

Each premade lance is going to vote for their own guy, duh. You'll either end up split evenly and having to decide randomly anyways, or railroaded with what one or two lances want to do. Let people get experience commanding. For Guild battles and matches etc let people choose of course.