131 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Which actually brings me to my favorite point...

Why are we "farming"? Really? I don't get playing a game as if it was "work". This is entertainment and a chance to suspend thoughts about all I have to get done in real life and relax. Tracking XP/C-bills per hour is inane. I think most people will find that if they just sit back and enjoy the journey the destination doesn't seem to forever hang out there unattainable. Instead you pause and go, "When did I get 12 Million?" or "Holy crap I best spend this 13k XP I built up on this new variant. That seemed really quick."

[Fate 6]

Jason Parker, on 30 November 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

Just to say: The moment when people yell "CAP, don't kill" is when all of the enemy team except the last AFK guy are dead already. And in this particular case: YES capping is indeed more effective than getting the salvage for that last kill. That often will not even be accounted for since the dude DC'ed post countdown.

This.

[Giani]

Something worth mentioning, if your main goal is to maximize c-bills earned you are probably running trials. In that case salvage is irrelevant.

[Timberpoes]

It's more a case of CBills/minute rather than CBills/match.

I mean, earning 250k CBills instead of 150k is awesome, but if the match takes three to four times longer (ESPECIALLY when aiming to leg mechs, which will pad the match's length out needlessly) you'll earn less CBills per hour than just focusing on the base win bonuses.

If you won a match in 2 minutes with a perfect 3-Jenner-rush cap you'd be earning higher CBills per hour than 5-10 minute protracted matches where you're farming salvage.

That's why the current system is a little anti-fun. I play with my flatmate. We're in the same room, we both pilot the JR7-D(F) Boss Jenner and sometimes if we want to actually have fun we have to essentially try to lose the game by running off and finding some enemy mechs to brawl with.

It's annoying that the more fun option nets us less CBills/hr and less Exp/hr than just rushing to cap.

Reminds me of the old Alterac Valley in World of Warcraft. The most efficient way to play that map was for both factions to pass eachother in the middle with a lot of /waving, rushing to the enemy base and killing whatever objectives on the way. An actual protracted battle was waaaay more fun but took forever and gave fewer rewards.

I guess that means fun is it's own reward and the CBills for a good 'mech brawl are icing on the cake.

[Peg Leg Pete]

The first thing is, if the remaining member of the team surrenders and powers down, go cap and leave them alone. That's just part of not being a d*ck.

Capping is actually more valuable from an experience standpoint. EVERYONE ON THE TEAM GET CAP EXP. This includes the 4 guys that defended the base and the flank and never saw the other 4 mechs on the field.

So yes, if YOU get the kill YOU get more XP and C-Bills than a cap. If you cap, EVERYONE gets XP and C-Bills. See my first point.


Then there is the repair cost you might incur if someone surrenders and you keep firing on them, and one of us trims off your arm so you can't keep shooting.

[Daiichidoku]

big stompy robots shooting each other to destruction


thats what im here for, i can imagine anyone else bothering to be here for anything else


whos gives a shiite about a few pennies more?

go get a hand held calculator, punch keys all day adding and subtracting numbers, have fun, otherwise you're just taking up space that a real fighter could be in





capping should be minimal reward victory and only for time saving instead of chasing a jenner for 10 minutes

in any event, the point is moot, as we all have to deal with it regardless, until such time as we get new games modes that can include cap-specific victory conditions

[Crimson Dux]

SamizdatCowboy, on 30 November 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

People keep making a big deal out of repair/rearm. I don't know what you all are doing to your mechs, but repair/rearm usually runs me 10-30k unless it's a REALLY bad match in which case it may be 45-60k.

Probably we are not as "eficient" as you are.
But I have 2 questions:
1- Those 10 to 30k for a repair AND rearm are value from you only; or does your teammates actually have the same values on repair bills?
Because in your 1st post, you said:

SamizdatCowboy, on 30 November 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Salvage bonus is FAR more lucrative. If you can get your teammates to kill the enemy EFFICIENTLY (...)

This could be interpretec that they do the kill not you (therefore you having a small repair bill. As a scout per ex.)

2- When your teammates kill efficiently, is the enemy shooting back?

Sorry if those questions have been anwsered already: I stoped reading when all the post saying you where wrong started to be repetitive.

[Vlad Ward]

Crimson Dux, on 30 November 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Probably we are not as "eficient" as you are.
But I have 2 questions:
1- Those 10 to 30k for a repair AND rearm are value from you only; or does your teammates actually have the same values on repair bills?
Because in your 1st post, you said:
This could be interpretec that they do the kill not you (therefore you having a small repair bill. As a scout per ex.)

2- When your teammates kill efficiently, is the enemy shooting back?

Sorry if those questions have been anwsered already: I stoped reading when all the post saying you where wrong started to be repetitive.

The reason you have to at least try to get your teammates on board is because any damage they do to non-vital components is money being taken away from your salvage bonus.

Johnny Rambo next door can't aim his AC/20 very well and lops off both of the enemy Centurion's arms before finally getting the kill? You don't get Salvage on those arms.

And yes, the enemy is always shooting back. It's no harder to kill with Legshots than it is to kill with Torso shots. Hell, it's easier when you're up against an opponent who knows how to twist. The key is to make sure their upper body doesn't get damaged.

[AlexWildeagle]

Daiichidoku, on 30 November 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

big stompy robots shooting each other to destruction


thats what im here for, i can imagine anyone else bothering to be here for anything else


whos gives a shiite about a few pennies more?

go get a hand held calculator, punch keys all day adding and subtracting numbers, have fun, otherwise you're just taking up space that a real fighter could be in





capping should be minimal reward victory and only for time saving instead of chasing a jenner for 10 minutes

in any event, the point is moot, as we all have to deal with it regardless, until such time as we get new games modes that can include cap-specific victory conditions

really? Because actually the goal is to go capture the enemies base. Thats why it's there.

And OP, when your wrong you're dead wrong.
As people have said, usually the call to cap is when the enemy is down to one man. Unless its close usually at least one team member is already on enemy base. If not, you get 3 or more people on the enemy base and one or more has the -15% modifier that bar disappears in way less then 2 minutes.
Also salvage is determined by what can be salvaged. Leaving an AFK mech untouched is more salvage. Leaving an enemy mech alive is more salvage. And efficiently killing...Where? I've been dropping for a month or 2 now and have seen pug and premade alike just run through trashing every mech in sight. OK, I can remember one time where someone shot my leg out but I chased them down and beat them with it until they killed me.
With the current state of play capping is the most profitable, you get 7500 and more salvage as well as bonus XP. You just need to use a little forethought.

[Vlad Ward]

AlexWildeagle, on 30 November 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

really? Because actually the goal is to go capture the enemies base. Thats why it's there.

And OP, when your wrong you're dead wrong.
As people have said, usually the call to cap is when the enemy is down to one man. Unless its close usually at least one team member is already on enemy base. If not, you get 3 or more people on the enemy base and one or more has the -15% modifier that bar disappears in way less then 2 minutes.
Also salvage is determined by what can be salvaged. Leaving an AFK mech untouched is more salvage. Leaving an enemy mech alive is more salvage. And efficiently killing...Where? I've been dropping for a month or 2 now and have seen pug and premade alike just run through trashing every mech in sight. OK, I can remember one time where someone shot my leg out but I chased them down and beat them with it until they killed me.
With the current state of play capping is the most profitable, you get 7500 and more salvage as well as bonus XP. You just need to use a little forethought.

You don't get Salvage on Mechs that are left alive =/.

What was it you said? When you're wrong, you're dead wrong?

[Fiachdubh]

SamizdatCowboy, on 30 November 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

I have to agree with others who pointed out that once you get to 7 kills, it's a gray area whether the cap or another kill will be more lucrative, and I don't think it's right to say the cap is 'always' more lucrative instead of a final kill.

But it is a fair point that the vice versa is also true: getting the final kill is not 'always' more lucrative than a cap. So yeah I guess the more pragmatic thing to say is it's one of those battlefield-decision things.

You are right. Maybe one of those people that churn out all those charts and tables can do a study of it and give us a better understanding of when to do which.

[Vlad Ward]

Fiachdubh, on 30 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

You are right. Maybe one of those people that churn out all those charts and tables can do a study of it and give us a better understanding of when to do which.

Vlad Ward, on 30 November 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

Only if the last (usually afk/disconnected) enemy Mech has a total equipment value below 3,000,000 c-bills.

Anything else will yield a higher Salvage bonus than Cap bonus - especially if they're afk since there's no reason not to get a perfectly clean cockpit kill.

Doesn't require a chart. It's just algebra.

[Gregore]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 November 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

Right now it is no reason. But we are training ourselves to fail by this thinking. Capture the base missions are time sensitive because the "prize" may get off planet or be destroyed if you don't physically capture the base. If you kill the defenders you haven't captured the base you may have only defeated the skirmishers. So Actual capture of the base would be important to establish. As your employer if you came back and told me you killed the enemy but never actually captured the base, I'd take you to the MRBC and get my advance back for breech of contract. You killed the enemy you didn't capture the base as the contract specified.

BTW... I'm liking this discussion Merc. we are disagreeing, yet civil!

sorry you're an *****.

What would it take for the remaining mechs, after they have killed all enemies, to stroll over and stand on the base for a minute.

For some reason people think that the second you kill the last enemy you are teleported away or something. PGI ends the game there as they deem one of the 2 objectives is completed.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Salvage is awarded to the winning team and is equal to 2% of the undestroyed equipment on defeated mechs. That 2% is then divided up by all members of the team. To maximize your salvage you want to defeat an enemy mech while doing the least amount of damage required to do so. This usually means headshots, followed by taking out both legs. Blowing the torsos (especially if they store ammo there) is the worst way to build up your salavge bonus.

(all salvage listed is per person)

A salvaged 100 STD engine gives 1532.83 credits to each person on the winning team. A 200STD gives 3066.5, 300STD is 4600 and a 390STD is 5980.

100XL gives 4082.08, 200XL is 8166.25, 300XL is 12250 and 390XL gives 15925.

That is not even counting the additional equipment on the mechs.

My favorite Cataphract:

CTF-2X

270STD (4140 salvage)
AC20 (1500 salvage)
2 Medium Lasers (400 salvage)
1 Large Laser (500 salavge)
2 SSRM2s (150 salvage)
5 tons AC20 ammo (125 salvage)
2 tons SSRM ammo (270 salvage)
2 DHS (60 salvage)
416 points armor (325.2 salvage)

If you take out the head on my mech without doing any additional damage to my mech you will get 7470.2 C-bills per person. Technically a little less but I am not going to do the math on losing 18 points armor. If you strip off every single point of armor and all my equipment except my engine you will get 4140 salvage. So you should cap instead of killing me, because you will most likely do enough damage to me to drop your possible salvage bonus.

If I am in my Dragon with a 325 XL you get 13270 c-bills for killing me without hurting my engine. So you would want to take out my legs instead of capping.

Edited by Tickdoff Tank, 30 November 2012 - 12:31 PM.

[Beo Vulf]

SamizdatCowboy, on 30 November 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Killing 'may' be easy but efficient killing is hard and requires the most teamwork... more than capping.

Agreed, and new with the amount of new players efficient kills don't come often even in a win.

[Mercules]

Tickdoff Tank, on 30 November 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

If I am in my Dragon with a 325 XL you get 13270 c-bills for killing me without hurting my engine. So you would want to take out my legs instead of capping.

Or, we could play the game and not worry about Min/Maxing effort/profit. The C-bills still come in if you stop worrying about them to this level of detail.

[Indoorsman]

Nerf C-bills!

[Vexgrave Lars]

I always ask for "CAP", because I know there are players on my team that won't make enough otherwise.

When time and opportunity permit, I usually say "Cap, Please"

Salvage is nice, captures count for everyone.

The luxury of "taking command", the responsibility of using it for the whole team.

If I found that there is a better way to make more, you can bet I'd do it.

Not to mention reducing unnecessary repairs and ammo expenditures

Edited by Vexgrave Lars, 30 November 2012 - 12:47 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

Vexgrave Lars, on 30 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

I always ask for "CAP", because I know there are players on my team that won't make enough otherwise.

When time and opportunity permit, I usually say "Cap, Please"

Salvage is nice, captures count for everyone.

The luxury of "taking command", the responsibility of using it for the whole team.

If I found that there is a better way to make more, you can bet I'd do it.

Er, Salvage is also shared among the whole team.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Mercules, on 30 November 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

Or, we could play the game and not worry about Min/Maxing effort/profit. The C-bills still come in if you stop worrying about them to this level of detail.

I don't disagree with you. I was just pointing out the way to get the most salvage bonus, which seems to be a major focus of this thread. It is not *always* better to cap, nor is it *always* better to kill every mech. What the last mech is and what equipment it has and how you kill that mech makes a huge difference to your salvage bonus. The c-bills for capping are a certainty. It is up to the individual pilots to decide which is the better option for a given match.

Of course I prefer to kill everything that moves, I hate capping. Even if I lost money for killing all enemys I would still do it. I want to shoot giant robots.