226 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Wired, on 30 November 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

The state of the forums make a lot more since when you realize that there are people sitting in 4chan talking about the best ways to troll our community.

/v/ and /vg/ are truly the biggest, most powerful gaming sites you'll ever see.

[Kraven Kor]

Vassago Rain, on 30 November 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Yes.
It was us all along.

We weren't grateful when they told us they'll add third person. We weren't happy that we were getting dubs that aren't dubs, but more like 1.4s.

It was us all along.

Never mind that they promised first person only, and a whole lot of other things, that they're no longer interested in sticking to.

I am SHOCKED that I'm sinking a multi-million dollar company by simply telling them I do no want their proposed features. SHOCKED. This is like that one time 4chains sank Bioware simply by not playing their game, and reposting endless reposts of forum posts.

Because those things are what sink games. Not the developers being incompetent, or promises being broken. Or having the dev team troll users on the forum.

It was us all along.

See, and this here is full of "valid complaints" mixed with emotional, "@#$% you PGI for ruining my life" language which is just not helpful and will not be heard by PGI / IGP. Not because they don't care, but when someone accuses you of being incompetent, or evil, or greedy, or stupid, or whatever... you don't listen to the valid complaint. You hear the insult towards your character and respond not with "Hey, that's a good point..." but with "@#$% you!"

Angry comments breed angry responses.

If you want PGI / IGP to hear you, don't start by insulting them or accusing them of nefarious motives. If the game just simply isn't what you want or felt you were promised, well, fine post about it - politely, constructively - or stop playing, whatever. But these constant attacks on PGI do nothing to help the game, and could drive players and money away from the game. Even if true these accusations serve no purpose, especially in posts where you are trying to get them to "see reason."

Frankly, I care less about PGI or IGP's profits than I do about having a good Mechwarrior game, but for that to happen, the game does in fact need to be financially successful.

I give up.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 30 November 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Look, I'm always open to "listening to the other side"

But frankly on the issue of 3rd person. I've been there, done that, got the T-shirt and quite simply... no.

MW4's community was heavily split between 3rd person and 1st person. 3rd person helped give additional situational awareness to a player, and if you were playing 1st person in a match that offered 3rd person as even an option, well you would be getting your arse kicked 3 ways from sunday because you were playing the game from a first person perspective.

DayZ's another example. In DayZ I can see around corners I wouldn't be able to otherwise.

Now let's look at MWO's current track record when it comes to adding new "features" and let's stop and really think. COULD they actually pull off a WoT style 3rd person view without borking something horribly? No I don't think they could.

So OP, yes, yes I get where you're coming from, if there was a way to do it that 1) Didn't split the community and 2) Didn't offer an unfair advantage to players utilizing the 3rd person view mode. I'd be 100% behind it. But as the game sits, it won't happen, there's NO way to make MWO work like that WITHOUT splitting the user base, and that... will doom this game to failure.

[Wired]

Vassago Rain, on 30 November 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

/v/ and /vg/ are truly the biggest, most powerful gaming sites you'll ever see.

I was speaking of /d/, but if you want to admit to just trolling the forums then that is fine by me.

[TwoFaced]

ok, yes I did it!

sorry

[MayGay]

I realized this a long time ago, only have a few minor issues with the core game, that won't be changed, so I'm not even going to try anymore, or at least wait until the real problems are sorted out

[Kraven Kor]

Jade Kitsune, on 30 November 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

So OP, yes, yes I get where you're coming from, if there was a way to do it that 1) Didn't split the community and 2) Didn't offer an unfair advantage to players utilizing the 3rd person view mode. I'd be 100% behind it. But as the game sits, it won't happen, there's NO way to make MWO work like that WITHOUT splitting the user base, and that... will doom this game to failure.

I'm not convinced it would.

I don't like it, I don't want it, I won't use it, and if they "force it on me" I'll probably quit...

And I'm still posting in the "NO DON'T DO IT!" threads saying "NO DON'T DO IT!"

I'm just not, I dunno, angry or angsty about it. I know that insulting PGI or IGP or players who do want the feature is simply not going to help.

Discussing is all well and good - I'm just asking people to think a bit more about the tone of their posts and how they will be received and whether it really moves the dialog forward or is just bile being spat up out of spite or whatever.

[Harmatia]

This can be said about pretty much any forum community that springs up around any game I've ever played. You should have seen the Battlefield 3 forums, now that was lunacy. Or World of Warcraft, hell. These forums are actually quite subdued when compared to other game forums I've participated in. Most of the people who show up here have huge interest and passionate opinions. Some are out of line, most are reasonable in their expressions.

You mention the third person view debate. A lot of people have been pretty polite about voicing their opinion on the subject, Disagreeing with such a large change does not make people opposed to it crazy. Especially given the reason why it might be implemented in the future. In this case, the "other side" could be better served by an actual "training grounds" that let users pilot mechs around a non-hostile environment, allowing them to learn how to operate their mech before being dumped into a match against people who know what they're doing. That method would also benefit every single person who plays MWO, for one reason or another. If I could test out my new mech, or configuration, before rolling into battle with it, I would. And so would all of you.

People are always going to debate things, some in good faith and some in really demeaning ways, but in some cases it seems like PGI ignores the obvious in favor of something else. In a game that needs its problems solved, more content and core features (like voice, better match making, maybe a lobby people can group up in) they drop third person implementation out of the blue. Maybe myself and others are wrong, but all too often it seems like PGI has its priorities out of whack. Maybe they don't, maybe I just want to see stuff come before others.

*shrug*

Edited by Harmatia, 30 November 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[GonZo626]

I logged in also just to like this post. The community here is filled with rage that thier mechwarrior experiance is being ruined. I am just happy to be playing a new mechwarrior game. I will keep playing and not complaing. I will keep looking forward to every new patch to see what it adds. And lastly I will but in support tickets for what I think is broken and not come onto the forums just to announce what I don't like to the world.

And yes I do realize that this is kinda a complaint.

Long live MWO.

[Imagine Dragons]

LordBraxton, on 30 November 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

This community isn't toxic, its just rabidly passionate.

"Rabidly passionate" is lesser than or equal to Zealotry.

Zealotry is not a good thing.

[MaddMaxx]

Lin Shai, on 30 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

snip "barely functioning network code" snip

Psst. Would you tell that to the 40 Mechs I destroyed last night please. Some of them may not understand how it happened, but given your obviously insightful understanding of said code they might yet. Thanks.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Kraven Kor, on 30 November 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

I'm not convinced it would.

I don't like it, I don't want it, I won't use it, and if they "force it on me" I'll probably quit...

And I'm still posting in the "NO DON'T DO IT!" threads saying "NO DON'T DO IT!"

I'm just not, I dunno, angry or angsty about it. I know that insulting PGI or IGP or players who do want the feature is simply not going to help.

Discussing is all well and good - I'm just asking people to think a bit more about the tone of their posts and how they will be received and whether it really moves the dialog forward or is just bile being spat up out of spite or whatever.

It's hard to keep the tone level when those of us who have followed this project since 2009 begin catching wind that "All those cool things we promised you" are getting tossed to the wind because someone thinks they can justify decisions "for the better of the new player" when we know that's a load of BS.

What do new players need?

Trial Mech Only Que [for up to 50ish matches/wins]
Detailed tooltips/weapon-equipment discriptions in mechlab
Detailed Tutorial that explains: Battlemech functions, weapons, movement, weapons groups, heat system, repair/rearm.

What players DO NOT NEED:
Thrid Person view.

A proper tutorial will cover movement first and foremost, if a player cannot get the hang of how a battlemech functions, then this isn't the game for them, as simple as that.

Look at Mechwarrior 2's tutorials, those were great, and done from an "in Universe" perspective... MW3 also had a great tutorial, hell MW4 had a good one too! Anything I needed to learn in those games, I learned easily from the ingame tutorials.

Is it extra coding? Yes, oh god yes it is, they're going to have to do some form of AI for an instructor, make a custom level for it, the whole works. But you know what, if their concern is for the new player, then that's what they need to do, not go back on their promises to the community that "Thrid Person will never be in" because some mook in a suit decided it would "Help the new players."

[Kraven Kor]

GonZo626, on 30 November 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

I logged in also just to like this post. The community here is filled with rage that thier mechwarrior experiance is being ruined. I am just happy to be playing a new mechwarrior game. I will keep playing and not complaing. I will keep looking forward to every new patch to see what it adds. And lastly I will but in support tickets for what I think is broken and not come onto the forums just to announce what I don't like to the world.

And yes I do realize that this is kinda a complaint.

Long live MWO.

Complaints are fine and necessary. The specifics of how you make the complaint will affect the results of said complaint.

I work in IT, Help Desk.

If someone calls me and says "Hey, my computer is running really slow, making it hard to do my job" I am sympathetic and help them and feel good about it afterwards.

If someone calls me and says "This @#$%ing computer is a piece of @#$% you people can't do anything right..." (and this happens...) I tell the user to call me back when they have calmed down and I will be more than happy to help them then I tell my supervisor so I don't get in trouble.

Same thing applies here. Just sayin'.

[Wired]

MaddMaxx, on 30 November 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

Psst. Would you tell that to the 40 Mechs I destroyed last night please. Some of them may not understand how it happened, but given your obviously insightful understanding of said code they might yet. Thanks.

I'm still trying to figure out the complaints on this. I have the worse internet around - frequent disconnects and sometimes 1100 ping spikes*.... yet I don't have any problem with the netcode. I smash light mechs and I never notice my shots not registering.


*Ping spikes are not Mechwarrior related.

[Kraven Kor]

Jade Kitsune, on 30 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

It's hard to keep the tone level when those of us who have followed this project since 2009 begin catching wind that "All those cool things we promised you" are getting tossed to the wind because someone thinks they can justify decisions "for the better of the new player" when we know that's a load of BS.

What do new players need?

Trial Mech Only Que [for up to 50ish matches/wins]
Detailed tooltips/weapon-equipment discriptions in mechlab
Detailed Tutorial that explains: Battlemech functions, weapons, movement, weapons groups, heat system, repair/rearm.

What players DO NOT NEED:
Thrid Person view.

A proper tutorial will cover movement first and foremost, if a player cannot get the hang of how a battlemech functions, then this isn't the game for them, as simple as that.

Look at Mechwarrior 2's tutorials, those were great, and done from an "in Universe" perspective... MW3 also had a great tutorial, hell MW4 had a good one too! Anything I needed to learn in those games, I learned easily from the ingame tutorials.

Is it extra coding? Yes, oh god yes it is, they're going to have to do some form of AI for an instructor, make a custom level for it, the whole works. But you know what, if their concern is for the new player, then that's what they need to do, not go back on their promises to the community that "Thrid Person will never be in" because some mook in a suit decided it would "Help the new players."

And I agree 100%, and the way you discuss it is perfectly polite and professional other than the "accusations of BS" and "mook in a suit"

Wired, on 30 November 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

I'm still trying to figure out the complaints on this. I have the worse internet around - frequent disconnects and sometimes 1100 ping spikes*.... yet I don't have any problem with the netcode. I smash light mechs and I never notice my shots not registering.


*Ping spikes are not Mechwarrior related.

Oh I notice shots not registering.

I've even found I have to "lag shoot" and that is... bad. And they know it is and are working on it. I'm not happy about how long it is taking. I can still commend them where things are done right, point out the things I don't like, all without making the leap to "PGI is ruining the game!"

[Taryys]

Trial mech only queue us a bad idea. The rest sounds good though.

I cover a lot this here:


How To Reduce The Grind And Create A Great New User Experience

Jade Kitsune, on 30 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Trial Mech Only Que [for up to 50ish matches/wins]

[Wired]

Kraven Kor, on 30 November 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

And I agree 100%, and the way you discuss it is perfectly polite and professional other than the "accusations of BS" and "mook in a suit"



Oh I notice shots not registering.

I've even found I have to "lag shoot" and that is... bad. And they know it is and are working on it. I'm not happy about how long it is taking. I can still commend them where things are done right, point out the things I don't like, all without making the leap to "PGI is ruining the game!"

So the question is, what is different between your internet and my internet. I am connected via wireless through too much material. The ISP is cable based.

[GonZo626]

Kraven Kor, on 30 November 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Complaints are fine and necessary. The specifics of how you make the complaint will affect the results of said complaint.

I work in IT, Help Desk.

If someone calls me and says "Hey, my computer is running really slow, making it hard to do my job" I am sympathetic and help them and feel good about it afterwards.

If someone calls me and says "This @#$%ing computer is a piece of @#$% you people can't do anything right..." (and this happens...) I tell the user to call me back when they have calmed down and I will be more than happy to help them then I tell my supervisor so I don't get in trouble.

Same thing applies here. Just sayin'.

I will give this to you. Like I said If you have a valid and useful complaint (thinking something is broken) there is the support tickets for those (aka help desk).

[Hood]

What is it 85% of people are followers and 15% leaders/thinkers.

I am always up for a good debate with an open mind that I could be wrong. But I will be the first to admit that the door closes when yours does... And some.. its locked, bolted, welded and bar shut...

[F lan Ker]

S!

Harnessing all the "toxic influences" to produce meaningful and well output suggestions/reports/whatever would be an ideal situation, but Internet is not that and emotions/ego/insert appropriate stuff does affect the output on various things. On the other side it is hard for devs to tell us the "big picture" comprehensively as it is after all WIP and more rage is ensuing if the word nitpickers comb the words to get a reason to whine...Endless circle.

I just play this game and send support emails if something arises. Being a troll face here raging will not help. Just my 0.02€