191 replies to this topic

[Sikosis]

Kobold, on 01 December 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Good luck with that.

As an aside, I was unaware your name was pronounced Sisyphus.

I wonder how many people had to look that up or simply shrugged it off as an "inside" joke haha


Yes, indeed. . . dealing with the "masses" here and hoping that PGI listens at some point, I feel like Sisyphus alas, my mortal soul is resigned to dealing with the psychosis of it all . .. hence my pilot name

[nuttycide]

When me and buddies go out in a 4 man, we sometimes tell the rest of the team, if they actually care half the time. Most of the time though we don't say a word, but yet still getting the pug group with us. Probably due to the fact we know what we are doing and where we are going, so they just follow us. (Which is usually good, but not always.) The other thing though is I usually just assume that the other 4 people on our team are just lemmings and have no idea what it means to think. I'll think this till proven wrong in the match, but I've gotten into this thinking thanks to WoTs. So I'm assume the reasons behind others not saying a thing, is similar to my own thinking. Simply put everyone in the match besides you is a lemming until proven wrong in the match, and your up against a team full of super genius's that know what it means to use teamwork through telepathy.

Edited by nuttycide, 01 December 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[Gen Kumon]

I pugged all through closed beta, and only started using TS after open hit. I still pug every now and then just to remind myself how bad it is. I used to try to organize my team every match. I rarely bother now. I only get a response at all maybe one out of three games, and half the time, it's insults. The rest of the time, I'm just completely ignored. No response at all from anyone.

We don't try to communicate any more because most puggers don't WANT to talk to us. It's as simple as that. I can talk and plan until I'm blue in the face, and not get a single line of text back, most matches. Some people have said they've had better results...well, I consider them lucky, or me just terribly unlucky. Perhaps I'm just getting teamed randomly with the worst of the anti-social puggers. But maybe I'm getting the average, and they're just getting the smart ones. Who knows? All I know, personal experience, they don't want to work as a team to begin with. Some people got closed beta fatigue. I have PUG fatigue.

Edit: And it's not just that they're not responding with text. They're not silently following the plan either. They all just rush forward, scatter, or hide near the base, regardless of whatever the plan was supposed to be. I'm not ordering them around randomly, either. I usually *ask* what they want to do, and then declare a plan after I get no response.

Edited by Gen Kumon, 01 December 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[The_Desert_Tiger]

My four man groups do. Anyone in QQ has a responsibility to both respond to and be able to command their allies. We type in team chat and mark where to form up. Sometimes if we got the ability (aka I am on my missile boat or I am scouting) I can even type out target priority.

I try not to do many elaborate tactics for both the reason of competition (not giving out all my secrets) and because some things have to be trained. I can safely say to this day any pug group that has listened to our groups hasn't lost yet.

It's also another way to scout for talent. Those who respond in chat and follow have potential and will be further tested.

[Scratx]

I usually (but only when I'm Lance-leader) shoot general strategy at the start of the match, then see how things evolve. Sometimes I try more elaborate strategy, but with PUGs you never know what you're getting.

Simply put, I try to get the non-VoIP members of the team into following a simple, coherent strategy, but I don't lose much hair trying to herd cats.

[Joseph Mallan]

Secundus, on 01 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Why is it that 4 man groups almost never announce to the rest of their teammates that they are in a group and where they are going? Every round I'll ask what's the plan and only rarely will someone will speak up, I'll throw out some commands, some people will follow, then I'll notice half our team going the other way. I'll pester and then basically tell everyone to redirect with them since they're apparently too newbie to know how to chat. Then toward the end of the round we'll find out they were a group but were simply too lazy or stupid to say anything about it. For the amount of complaining on here and for how rare it is for a plan to be shared or communicated it seems like you're your own worst enemies. I'd even call out that you're simply bad players. At best the odd group might say in chat "SQUUAAAAKKKK", whatever that's supposed to mean (squad?).

I'm sorry but if you are playing as a PUG, Why would you want to communicate with the Group? As a player on both sides of the fence. Why should teams waste time typing when the normal result is silence or the opposite of what is being said. Honestly It is normally useless to talk to the PUGs. It's sad that this is the case but thats the reason.

[FrostPaw]

Somebody in my teams usually shares grid coordinates and a basic plan, defend, attack etc.We share the plan, we can't make people decide to follow it.

Ultimately though, using voice coms is an indication people would rather not spend time typing, and general chatter is something for when you're not in the middle of a fight.

[Stoicblitzer]

diffusion of responsibility. there is some sort of stigma to giving/taking orders. maybe it has something to do with not wanting responsibility if there is a failure. fear of failure seems to be huge nowadays. if you don't succeed, then you are a failure and deserve nothing.

[Dark Severance]

Secundus, on 01 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Why is it that 4 man groups almost never announce to the rest of their teammates that they are in a group and where they are going?

How do you know that there is a 4 man group if they don't announce? Do you assume that if 4 mechs go off a general direction they are grouped together?

[M0rpHeu5]

All this Pugs suck or Premades suck pugs this premades that topics are really sad, and to think that the Mechwarrior funbase is arownd 30 years old makes it sadder. Really guys really?

Edited by M0rpHeu5, 01 December 2012 - 04:00 PM.

[Secundus]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 December 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'm sorry but if you are playing as a PUG, Why would you want to communicate with the Group? As a player on both sides of the fence. Why should teams waste time typing when the normal result is silence or the opposite of what is being said. Honestly It is normally useless to talk to the PUGs. It's sad that this is the case but thats the reason.

We win a lot when we communicate. The normal result when people are communicating is a win. Why wouldn't you want to communicate with the group? I openly ask if there's a group in our every round, most often there isn't or they don't respond, yet it seems whenever my group communicates we either win, or have a decent fight where lose 8-5 or 8-6 regardless of whether a group is with us or not. I've been on teams with 3 or more trial mechs vs all founders on the other team and we win when people follow orders.

[Hayashi]

Secundus, on 01 December 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Why wouldn't you want to communicate with the group?

Never understood this.

[Lokust Davion]

Cause talking to pugs is beneath them..

[FerretGR]

Secundus, on 01 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

I'd even call out that you're simply bad players. At best the odd group might say in chat "SQUUAAAAKKKK", whatever that's supposed to mean (squad?).

So funny that you'd say that. Myself an 3 friends dropped with 4 players who all "SQUAAWK"ed in the open chat. I addressed them in team chat, said "sweet, what's the plan?" No response. They bailed and ran the tunnel (Forest City), and us, in our assaults, followed them out until we realized what they were doing. We got cut off before we got there by the enemy who was heading across the centre map to our base. We barely held off the cap and got destroyed while our SQUAWWKing friends all quickcapped. If they'd been a bit communicative about their plan, we would have had no trouble holding off the attack while they capped, but we were way out of position because of the lack of communication. I guess they assumed we were "stupid PUGs" and weren't worth sharing the plan with? At any rate, you're lucky you didn't lose that one, guys, we stopped the base cap with barely a sliver left.

Yeah, it's my experience both PUGing and playing with a premade that other 4-man groups are not very communicative sometimes. The ones that make the effort to communicate with the PUGs have a better time, in my experience.

[Violette]

Ugh, I see these threads inevitably lead to a hefty amount of moralizing and pomposity. Yes, we all should do this, we all should do that, because it's the social/good/competitive/sportsperson-like/funny thing to do. Yes yes, we should strain our little gaming fingers and reach out to our pugging/pre-madeing friends. Because that has always worked for some people. But no, no we should not; for, for a lot of people, it has not worked. Anecdote anecdote anecdote. Blaaaaah.

[FerretGR]

You don't have to do anything. That said, typing "let's defend E4 until the scouts come up with some info, K?" is pretty much the same as not doing anything and works wonders in most cases, so why not do that instead?

Edited by FerretGR, 01 December 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[Hayashi]

FerretGR, on 01 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

You don't have to do anything.

... and did you know that there are people who do quantitative research using anecdotal data? It's a very new field at the moment, I'm not sure what its proper name is.

One or two anecdotes isn't very conclusive. So they randomly sample, take several hundred anecdotes, and map trends. It's all rather interesting.

We don't have anywhere near enough to prove that it works, but people rarely listen to mathematical proof on this forum even in areas where it is possible (repair costs to earnings, projected damage and estimated ammunition/heat efficiency, etc). In this particular topic, all you're gonna be able to get is anecdotes, or at best, you could run 50 games with teamchat with your PuGs, 50 games without, and analyse the win-loss-kill-death statistics - which won't be able to nullify the effect of your skill.

But just because you don't have to drink your soup with a spoon doesn't mean that there's no place to tell people that drinking soup with a steak knife is probably not a good idea.

[Chiron]

I find that the puggers tend to act like flocks of pigeons, when the 4 of us move in unison the puggers fall in line automatically Sometimes we make a sharp change in direction, and they do too, it looks just like birds on the map.

@OP, My lance always shoots out a directional command at the beginning, and it seems to make a difference.

[Lokust Davion]

When I'm in a premade I always chat with the pugs. I will state that I'm in a premade and tell em our basic plan, like head to F5 and defend. I find that pugs are usually happy to know that theyre playing with the best.

[PropagandaWar]

FerretGR, on 01 December 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

So funny that you'd say that. Myself an 3 friends dropped with 4 players who all "SQUAAWK"ed in the open chat. I addressed them in team chat, said "sweet, what's the plan?" No response. They bailed and ran the tunnel (Forest City), and us, in our assaults, followed them out until we realized what they were doing. We got cut off before we got there by the enemy who was heading across the centre map to our base. We barely held off the cap and got destroyed while our SQUAWWKing friends all quickcapped. If they'd been a bit communicative about their plan, we would have had no trouble holding off the attack while they capped, but we were way out of position because of the lack of communication. I guess they assumed we were "stupid PUGs" and weren't worth sharing the plan with? At any rate, you're lucky you didn't lose that one, guys, we stopped the base cap with barely a sliver left.

Yeah, it's my experience both PUGing and playing with a premade that other 4-man groups are not very communicative sometimes. The ones that make the effort to communicate with the PUGs have a better time, in my experience.

[REDACTED CONTENT]

While we try and communicate Pugs will either play or won't. Up to a point we have to assume they know what they are doing. If we can we'll call a target. If a Pug takes a command role well work with it. However other pugs dont always like to follow either. As of Tuesday Pugs will pretty much be playing pugs I think. It sucks because we lose tonnage drops but they wont have to worry about getting ROFLStompped.

One thing I would like to point out is you guys get mad about comm players and then PGI knocks it down to 4 man max. Then you were happy at first with the four man lance max with comms because you were winning. Now your mad because we dont type and if we do we have a 50/50 chance of you responding. So now Premades lose tonnage drops all because we wanted to do what you guys say we aren't doing with you just in a more sensible manner. Text chat is a pain in FPS always has been. So we all loose. Team Speak was simple enough to load.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 02 December 2012 - 11:39 AM.
edited per CoC