191 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

Seriously, when I'm playing PUGboss, it's almost always the silent "we're doing our own thing and don't give a frak about the rest of you guys" pre-mades who are the ones not following the plan.

Ideally, they should be the ones leading, since they have the advantage of voice coms, so even a simple "we're a pre-made, so follow along please" and then calling priority targets would suffice.

Agreed, if I am in a premade I announce to my team, and then tell them to stay tight with our biggest brawler.

Sorry but to call targets Im gonna need in game integrated voip, cant type in combat.

[Lege]

Calling targets on voice is the best way to do it.
With fast moving mechs, typing the name after getting the readout is so slow, it's almost useless.
If you see 4 mechs working together, stick with them and shoot at their targets best you can.

[Secundus]

Had some good successes in full PUG groups last night, occasionally beating opponent groups. Very good fights were had even when we lost. I don't think we lost any games without taking out at least 5 enemy. People are far more responsive than you guys are giving people credit for.

[unwary]

Attempting to lead random pugs is like trying to herd cats. You can try but it's ultimately a useless gesture.

[Zakie Chan]

From experience most pugs think they know it all and refuse to follow orders.


The ones who are inclined to listen already have enough game awareness that you dont need to tell them anything.

[Bloody]

/shrug

there will be many here who claim they try ALL THE TIME to communicate and that it is the PUGs who are too blame.

i doubt that from my experience. The 4 mans do not communicate with the PUGs most of the time. But then PGI has not implemented a working integrated chat anyway so /shrug

[p4r4g0n]

Hayashi, on 01 December 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

P.S. There's one thing I've never been able to get PuG teammates to do. There's always one or two who will kill the AFK last enemy at the base, instead of holding fire and capping, even when advised to the contrary. Bear in mind they also follow instructions for the rest of the game. There's just something about bloodlust...

Unless it is a light, isn't it worth more in salvage to kill off that last mech?

[Sevaradan]

it is, and its faster.

[prox]

Because we chose the way of voice communication.

[Sevaradan]

prox711, on 02 December 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Because we chose the way of voice communication.

i like this explanation.

[Hayashi]

p4r4g0n, on 02 December 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Unless it is a light, isn't it worth more in salvage to kill off that last mech?

I'm not too sure actually what salvage calculation entails. It seems to be directly proportional to number of kills and inversely proportional to amount of damage done.

In terms of XP, because only the killer generally gets XP, capping is always better on the whole. In terms of C-Bills, I'm not too sure.

I'm getting figures of about 4k-8k salvage per mech on average, plus a kill bonus of 2k.

Capture is 5000, capture assist is 2500. Kill XP is about 100xp to killer only. Capture xp is 75 to entire team, 125 to those who capture.

6k-10k + 100xp to killer only for killing last mech.
5k-7.5k + 75-125xp to entire team for capturing.

So it looks like killing the last mech is something advantageous only if you don't care about your teammates at all, and C-Bills is more important than XP to you.

Edited by Hayashi, 02 December 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[p4r4g0n]

Hayashi, on 01 December 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

On the other side of the coin, some premade players are just plain rude to PuGs, making very well known their perceptions that PuGs suck at the start of the match.

Stuff like:

"We're a premade, you can stick with us, or you can wander off, do your own thing and die if you prefer."
"We're a premade, please don't suck."
"Don't suck this game like the Pugs from the previous game."

People don't respond very well to instructions when you start your introductions like this, just saying.

Here's one for your collection: Chill dude, you're being carried by Clan ____ ______.

When he/she said that we were 5 v 1 and proceeded to lose the match. I just LOL'd at the end. Would have inserted the clan name but I'm sure there are some good people in it so .....

[Vlad Ward]

Hayashi, on 02 December 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

I'm not too sure actually what salvage calculation entails. It seems to be directly proportional to number of kills and inversely proportional to amount of damage done.

In terms of XP, because only the killer generally gets XP, capping is always better on the whole. In terms of C-Bills, I'm not too sure.

I'm getting figures of about 4k-8k salvage per mech on average, plus a kill bonus of 2k. How many C-Bills is capture worth again?

The equation released by the Devs is 2% of the purchase value of the undamaged components of an enemy mech (implicit: split among all 8 team members, as this makes the numbers work out).

If Capture is 5,000 c-bills and Cap Assist is 2,500, then any Mech with a total value above ~3,000,000 c-bills will reward more c-bills in Salvage when headshot or legged with no upper body damage than Cap.

Unfortunately, when people go railing off at the last AFK/DC'd mech on a team, they tend to pound it with LRMs and scattered laser fire and completely ruin the Salvage. If you're lucky enough to get there first or to get your team to hold fire, there's no reason not to just park right in front of the AFK and blast their cockpit.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 02 December 2012 - 12:35 PM.

[jakucha]

Yeah listen up PGI, add a "V" voice command system, and later on you can add different "voice packs" done by various voice actors for which you can charge. I know I'd probably buy something like that as long as it wasn't too much.

Edited by jakucha, 02 December 2012 - 12:38 PM.

[Hayashi]

Vlad Ward, on 02 December 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

The equation released by the Devs is 2% of the purchase value of the undamaged components of an enemy mech (implicit: split among all 8 team members, as this makes the numbers work out).

If Capture is 5,000 c-bills and Cap Assist is 2,500, then any Mech with a total value above ~3,000,000 c-bills will reward more c-bills in Salvage when headshot or legged with no upper body damage than Cap.

Unfortunately, when people go railing off at the last AFK/DC'd mech on a team, they tend to pound it with LRMs and scattered laser fire and completely ruin the Salvage. If you're lucky enough to get there first or to get your team to hold fire, there's no reason not to just park right in front of the AFK and blast their cockpit.

Numbers don't look right. If it were to be 2% of raw value, a 3M C-bill Mech would reward 60k on a headshot. A Gaussapult with XLs and all that jazz would reward 180k for headshotting it alone.

I'm pretty sure I've never seen salvage numbers cross the 80k mark.

[Vlad Ward]

Hayashi, on 02 December 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Numbers don't look right. If it were to be 2% of raw value, a 3M C-bill Mech would reward 60k on a headshot. A Gaussapult with XLs and all that jazz would reward 180k for headshotting it alone.

I'm pretty sure I've never seen salvage numbers cross the 80k mark.

Yeah. That's why I added the implicit split there. 2% of raw value becomes the total team Salvage bonus, which is then divided by the number of people on the team to get each member's final take-home pay.

So a 3,000,000 c-bill mech would really give each player (3,000,000 * 0.02) / 8 = 7,500 c-bills.

A Gaussapult with XLs and all the bells and whistles would then be more like 22,500 on headshot.

I've had games with 100,000+ Salvage rewards, but there's usually some waste in there somewhere.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 02 December 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Tickdoff Tank]

I don't chat because I hate you and want to watch you fail in the mission, rage quit and uninstall.

[Hayashi]

Vlad Ward, on 02 December 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Yeah. That's why I added the implicit split there. 2% of raw value becomes the total team Salvage bonus, which is then divided by the number of people on the team to get each member's final take-home pay.

So a 3,000,000 c-bill mech would really give each player (3,000,000 * 0.02) / 8 = 7,500 c-bills.

A Gaussapult with XLs and all the bells and whistles would then be more like 22,500 on headshot.

I've had games with 100,000+ Salvage rewards, but there's usually some waste in there somewhere.

Ah, so that's what you meant by implicit split.

If that mathematics is correct then the common assumption that killing the last AFK is not as good as capping is actually false, and it becomes more or less a case of C-Bills vs XP.

[Fugu]

Because I don't give a toss about you guys and I don't want to play with you. It's really that simple. Randumbs can die in a fire for all I care. Especially considering that I have to deal with them in my team because of their whining in the first place.

I'm just waiting for thursday so I don't have to have random guys in my team ever again. Good riddance!

[Vlad Ward]

Hayashi, on 02 December 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Ah, so that's what you meant by implicit split.

If that mathematics is correct then the common assumption that killing the last AFK is not as good as capping is actually false, and it becomes more or less a case of C-Bills vs XP.

Yup, exactly.

There was a thread on that a couple days ago, but, as things go, it generally devolved into junk.

The general take-away was that, in cases where the final member of an enemy team is live and running around, capping is usually more efficient (especially if they're a fast light or a heavily damaged larger mech). However, if you're dealing with an AFK or a Disconnect, you should almost always hold the long-range fire and just headshot it. The only real exception is a stock commando, or any other Mech that looks like it has a total value below 3,000,000 c-bills.

I suppose there is the cap XP to consider, but I honestly just ignore XP at this stage of the game. You accumulate it so much faster than c-bills that you almost always end up with massive stockpiles of Mech XP by the time you have enough money to buy a new Mech.