172 replies to this topic

[xX_Nero_Xx]

ill always be SA but since lost of us are not here i play with the real Kell Hounds

[Carcass23]

Where is the choice for, "This is a stupid thread so I didn't vote."? How about a poll on "Do you ***** and whine about PGI, claim you are quitting yet for some reason still continue to play and nerdrage on the forums?" See how many responses you get for that?

[Bitey001]

I know we'd all like to see PGI stats, but it's a really bad business decision to release said stats to the community for a number of reasons.

Rest assured though. The overwhelming majority of players in this game though are PUG and DO NOT EVER come on the forums.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bitey001, on 02 December 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

I know we'd all like to see PGI stats, but it's a really bad business decision to release said stats to the community for a number of reasons.

Rest assured though. The overwhelming majority of players in this game though are PUG and DO NOT EVER come on the forums.

Which is precisely the point I was trying to get at about polls, and why I didn't post one at first. I also do agree that the percentage of PUGs is probably 60-70%. That being said, if the percentage of pugs is 70% or MORE, then the majority of roflstomps they experience cannot possibly all result from Pre-mades, since with such an imbalance between groups, you likelyhood of facing a premade, let alone a group with 2 premades is tiny. Hence most of the stomping is probably being accomplished by other PUGs, or partial premade groups.

So it appears, cooperation, and not premades is the real cause of most PUGstomps. Aka, when phase 2 kicks in, PUGnation (meaning the QQ minority, as their are plenty of good pugs out there) and the PUGs are still getting stomped.......

[StraferX]

I have had some pretty darn good results with pugging. people that play this sort of game are generaly Thinkers and stratagist what want team work. Not to say that you do not get your ******** noob running amuck in every match but generaly I have seen drops looking for direction and they new players looking for help. I'm that new player looking for team strat and answers about your mechs. Thanks to those who have helped and to those who have flamed.. I got your number and will beat you down with my wang.

[Major_Crash]

I can see no contradiction in the value of 70% of pug players. It almost matches the ratio of 12 pug players + 4-main premade in every match (3/4 and 1/4). Obviously sometimes there are 2 premades, sometimes none but in general a lot of matches are like that. And every such match makes 66% puggers unhappy (8 lost out of 12). In order for premades to be unnoticible and prove the point that "premade problem" does not exist and it's just the low skill the ratio of pug players should be around 95% I guess.

My persional guess that 70% is more close to reallity than 95%.

[Cerlin]

I'd love to run in a premade but so far I have yet to convert any friends to this game, so I just slug it out in solo queue. It is a tough existence and I think the perception of a premade is more damning than the actual thing. The teams I am on that lose would lose no matter what the other team brings. Splitting up into 2 man groups, jumping off the edge of the map, or charging in straight all have a predictable effect. While I have managed some wins as well, It doesnt take much for the average match to go badly.

[betocorp]

I pug only when testing a new build but even on it, I quickly suicide rush because pugging is useless

[Bishop Steiner]

p4r4g0n, on 02 December 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Actually its been pretty civil up to now which makes a nice change.

Thank you P4r4g0n. I actually PUG-ed against you last night, I believe. I think I lost, too, lol. But hey, I am only an evil Premade.. oh wait..I just said I was PUG-ing, didn't I?

Anyhow, this is not a "hit piece" pro Premade or Anti-Pug, just pointing out a conundrum about the Premade v PUG wars. It seems it got some decent discussion, and of course a few obstinate answers. But less obstinate than expected, TBH.

[OneManWar]

As a PUG, you can kind of coordinate team movements and follow each other, but the kicker is vs a good 4-man premade with voice chat you can't match their co-ordination. 4 pugs will engage but then when the crap hits the fan, everyone will start going a bit all over and targetting different people. I've faced good 4 man premades where all 4 targetted me and focused me to death in seconds, then onto the next.

That being said I don;t care, I like being the underdog and trying to overcome odds.

[p4r4g0n]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Thank you P4r4g0n. I actually PUG-ed against you last night, I believe. I think I lost, too, lol. But hey, I am only an evil Premade.. oh wait..I just said I was PUG-ing, didn't I?

Anyhow, this is not a "hit piece" pro Premade or Anti-Pug, just pointing out a conundrum about the Premade v PUG wars. It seems it got some decent discussion, and of course a few obstinate answers. But less obstinate than expected, TBH.

Yep, I believe I have seen you in some matches

Still learning the game and working on mastering one mech in every class so still pretty much on the steep part of the learning curve.

Hope you're having fun with the 8v8's

Edited by p4r4g0n, 06 December 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[Pr8Dator]

PUGS FOREVER! LOL!

[PropagandaWar]

Lefty Lucy, on 02 December 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

As I've been grouping more and more, I'm fine with having PUGs and pre-mades in the same queue, but for the love of god limit it to one pre-made per side.

There's no reason to limit teams to four, but then allow the game to put two teams of four against 8 randoms.

The match maker *should* start off by looking for groups, and add one group to each team in the game. Then it should look for PUGs to fill each side. As of now, even if you're not abusing the match maker by sync dropping the game seems to favor filling one side with two teams if they are available, then filling the other side with PUGs, or maybe a team.

Yeah my teamate mentioned that he knew the guys playing with us and I was thinking great and you guessed it total decimation. I acutally hung back because I dont feel its a fair. I agree try and match up pugs with pugs, then pre/pug mix, then pre with pre. However if its a couple pres even a lance its no big deal imo because there's a good chance there's a few pre's on the other side.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 28 January 2013 - 03:39 PM.

[Serapth]

The funny thing about this poll is it pretty much went exactly against the premise the OP was trying to prove... either that PUGs arent that big a segment of the population, or they are a big enough segment of the population that premades cant be all the prevalent.

Instead if showed that they are the biggest segment, but there was still a large group of premades stomping all over them. Bet those weren't the results you set out to prove, eh?

I also always snicker about QQing threads about QQing.

Yes, I know someone necro'ed this thread.

[Greyfyl]

KingNobody, on 02 December 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

Haven't you guys had enough childish bickering yet?

I don't think you can ever have too much childish bickering on a gaming forum.

[Heeden]

Your numbers in the OP are a bit off.

It only takes a 4-man team to make a PuG-stomp, so a match could have 4 in a pre-made and 12 in a PuG, giving a 3:1 ratio of PuGgers to premades.

The biggest problem is lack of voice-comms, and little incentives for premade teams to stay out of the PuG-pool. When the game is further along hopefully the issues will be resolved, until then us PuGgers just have to buckle under and get on with it.

[Huntsman]

Holy crap...a full 40% only PUG. This explains why so many of my 4-mans are like herding cats.

[p4r4g0n]

Huntsman, on 28 January 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Holy crap...a full 40% only PUG. This explains why so many of my 4-mans are like herding cats.

If all the players who actually played participated, I wouldn't be surprised if the PUG only percentage was even higher. Let's not even talk about percentage it would have been had the new user experience actually been good from day 1 of OB.

[Jman5]

Nice necro.

[Thorqemada]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 December 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

You have the PUGnation crying that they can't win because they keep getting stomped by Pre-Mades. And so PGI needs to bend over to their demands, or they will crash and burn since the vast majority of players, and hence, potential income is from casual PUGs.

Well the problem is BOTH statements cannot be true.

I would like to throw in the argument that both groups of gamers have a different amount of playtime, that there are primetimes for PUG stomping by Premades and that there are different philosophys about fun.

I expect that Premades have a much higher average playtime.
That means 1 Premade will play against several PUGs which multiplicates the effect.
A match consists of 16 players, if 4mans play and give their side a significant edge that means the 25% of the playerbase is enough to alter the experience for the other 75% that is based on random luck matchmaking.
Premades consist probably more min max Gamers than PUGs.
This will make up a rather frustrating gameplay experience for people that like to play multi role, multi range, exotic/experimental Mech setups, staged combat development and do not see any appeal in CQB or Long Range minmaxing.

This gives a very tainted gameplay experience depending on random luck.