172 replies to this topic

[Faldrin]

Ilwrath, on 29 January 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

Or just look at World of Tanks. I mostly wanted something like that when I got this game just minus the silly communist bias.
How is WoT doing compared to this game? Ah well we don't know because only WoT got a population counter.

WoT has small pre-mades only right? with other things as to balance teams out (never played it) But this game has normally half the team in a group on TS.

[w0rm]

Faldrin, on 29 January 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

ut this game has normally half the team in a group on TS.

Got any proof?

[Bguk]

w0rm, on 29 January 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Got any proof?

Neither side does. Which is why this is a silly debate.

[w0rm]

Bguk, on 29 January 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Neither side does. Which is why this is a silly debate.

That's what I'm trying to point out

[Joseph Mallan]

w0rm, on 29 January 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Got any proof?

Well it is that way for my teams normally. Murphy's drop with up to 4 man team and the rest is not on the same com!

[Kill Dozer]

"Both but Pre-Made more"

Sometimes I pug it up when I don't have much time to play, other times I'll be waiting in Murphy's TS server for other members to show up. Even two players together on voice comms is better than none so I'll drop in a "2 man" rather than alone if possible.

Murphy's also has a basic rule, "no member has to play alone unless they want to". If there's a 4 man going and there's 5 members on TS we'll break up the groups into a 3 and 2 man.

That being said, most of us tend to approach playing pretty casually."Take whatever mech you want" but try and work as a team, sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, but we try and have fun doing it.

I also go over to the Comstar TS server occasionally and there are *lots* of 4 and 8 man teams in there, both in units and without, so I don't find it surprising that a lot of games seem like there is at least some coordination going on. What I do find surprising is the games where no one will use text chat, Ive seen some where I'll try and communicate with the other guys on my team and no one will even reply.

Edited by Kill Dozer, 29 January 2013 - 11:57 AM.

[Serapth]

Bguk, on 29 January 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Neither side does. Which is why this is a silly debate.

That's just wrong.

If there is a house on the hill, and people that go into it dont come out, there is no proof that people are being murdered, but it is still prudent to look into it further or to avoid that house.

Empirical evidence, such as the hundreds upon hundreds of pugstomping threads, or the new user overview threads that show 25 loses ( often 8-0 ) in a row, indicates that there is a problem. The simple fact you aren't affected doesn't dismiss that fact many others are.

We dont have raw numbers, but that is not the only form of evidence.

[Serapth]

Kill Dozer, on 29 January 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

That being said, I go over to the Comstar TS server occasionally and there are *lots* of 4 and 8 man teams in there, both in units and without, so I don't find it surprising that a lot of games seem like there is at least some coordination going on. What I do find surprising is the games where no one will use text chat, Ive seen some where I'll try and communicate with the other guys on my team and no one will even reply.

There are a few reasons for this...

Some is simply antisocial behaviours
Some is caused by people having trouble with piloting, let alone typing or reading messages
Some is caused by non English players
A lot is caused by the fact the text tools are complete ****.

I cant type probably half the time unless I ESC out to the menu and back in. There are no macro abilities ( which could easily bridge the language barrier AND be viable during heated combat ), the text stays on screen for seconds, you cant chat prematch because the screen is faded out for some bizarre reason...

Frankly every single MMO ive ever played had vastly superior grouping and chatting features. When the tools are this horrid, its not really surprising they arent used.

[Bguk]

Serapth, on 29 January 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

That's just wrong.

If there is a house on the hill, and people that go into it dont come out, there is no proof that people are being murdered, but it is still prudent to look into it further or to avoid that house.

Empirical evidence, such as the hundreds upon hundreds of pugstomping threads, or the new user overview threads that show 25 loses ( often 8-0 ) in a row, indicates that there is a problem. The simple fact you aren't affected doesn't dismiss that fact many others are.

We dont have raw numbers, but that is not the only form of evidence.

Of course there's different types of evidence. I prefer to create a real boogeyman based on real numbers rather than posts/threads on topics. So yes, based on how I prefer to create boogeymen, this is a silly debate unless we have the actual numbers of how many times this happens. Does it happen? Yes. Does it happen often/how much/it's always premades? No numbers means we do not know.

One thing that always bothers me about this discussion is how the premade boogeyman is used by some people as an excuse for losing. Instead of asking themselves what happened during the game that I could have done better, they just say oh it's evil premade, when it could have been either.

Edited by Bguk, 29 January 2013 - 08:18 AM.

[Serapth]

Bguk, on 29 January 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Of course there's different types of evidence. I prefer to create a real boogeyman based on real numbers rather than posts/threads on topics. So yes, based on how I prefer to create boogeymen, this is a silly debate unless we have the actual numbers of how many times this happens. Does it happen? Yes. Does it happen often/how much/it's always premades? No numbers means we do not know.

The evidence isn't how often it happens, but how often people perceive it to be happening.

Most rage quit threads ultimately end up being matchmaker related. God only knows how many people simply quit without saying anything. The evidence is the number of threads being made exclusively over this subject.

You calling it a bogieman is you making a judgement call without evidence either, so you are doing the exact same thing you are accusing others of. What happens when it is discovered that there is a monster under every bed?

Obviously its a problem for a great many people, and I assume not all of them are no skill QQers like so many people like to dismiss them. That PGI aren't addressing it is way more than a bit disappointing. That ELO keeps getting delayed, and that ELO doesn't even address premades in the first place, that is understandably frustrating. Especially when, unlike netcode for example, it's easily solved. Mark premades in the results screen and we prove or disprove the whole boogieman once and for all. Put a premade on each side, and it solves the disparency.

But instead, we get nothing... but hundreds more of these threads until PGI actually address the issue.


I get it, this issue isn't an issue to you. I would think at this point in time you would realize that it is a big issue to many people.

Edited by Serapth, 29 January 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[Xenois Shalashaska]

New players who start this game wont understand what a PUG or Pre-made even means. its just people who get annoyed with the gameplay because its team orientated. You people who are whingers are creating this ellusion of pre-made killing pugs. No such thing as a 1 man army in this game, but definately 2 friends playing together on a team against 4 other teamed up players can stand a equal chance.

I belong to a pre-made social group and when i "launch" by myself with PUGs. I still win. This is a fact. People in clans will still play with PUG groups.

My social group or any other social groups on TS treat the 4 player drop as a casaul assault game or conquest.

You guys would all be crying if you knew how insanely organised the 8 player drops are with no matching weight limits.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

why is it PUG exclusively is winning? Thought they were the verbal minority?

w0rm, on 29 January 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Got any proof?

isnt that what the polls are FOR?

[Serapth]

Xenois Shalashaska, on 29 January 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

New players who start this game wont understand what a PUG or Pre-made even means. its just people who get annoyed with the gameplay because its team orientated. You people who are whingers are creating this ellusion of pre-made killing pugs. No such thing as a 1 man army in this game, but definately 2 friends playing together on a team against 4 other teamed up players can stand a equal chance.

I belong to a pre-made social group and when i "launch" by myself with PUGs. I still win. This is a fact. People in clans will still play with PUG groups.

My social group or any other social groups on TS treat the 4 player drop as a casaul assault game or conquest.

You guys would all be crying if you knew how insanely organised the 8 player drops are with no matching weight limits.

Wow, that came across horrifically arrogant.


Why would we be crying about 8mans being high skill? The queue is OPT IN. If pugs had the ability to OPT OUT of playing against premades, you would see no whining on the subject at all. If 8mans were dropping against PUGs there would be a great deal of whining... there was, and rightly PGI fixed the problem. That they seem incapable of realizing that they only partially fixed the problem is downright baffling.

[Cerlin]

So according to the poll there is an equal number that do some premade, and the ones that do none at atll.

As for me, its a mood thing. I do random pug premades when I am in the mood, but I also solo drop quite often as well.

I however, dont blame premades when I lose. I blame my terrible teammates who cant shoot, drive the mech, play, think, build a mech, or generally be educated humans. Some people cannot be arsed to research this game to understand builds and weapons and mechanisms and that is their fault. Not premades or the games fault.

[w0rm]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 29 January 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

isnt that what the polls are FOR?

Proof for his assumption that there is a premade in every match.

[Serapth]

w0rm, on 29 January 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Proof for his assumption that there is a premade in every match.

Actually the OP was looking for a much different result.

He expected that either the PUG population would poll much higher, proving that premades really aren't that common. Or the inverse, that premades were more prevalent, so in essence, screw PUGs.

In the end though, the numbers show there are a lot of pugs, but enough premades that basically there will be 4 premades in a 16 man match... Pretty much confirming everything the PUG side has been saying all along.

[w0rm]

Serapth, on 29 January 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

snipped

I know. I was referring to Faldrin post, on 29 January 2013 - 06:12 AM.

Regarding the rest of your post: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1811118

Edited by w0rm, 29 January 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[Xenois Shalashaska]

Serapth, on 29 January 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Wow, that came across horrifically arrogant.


Why would we be crying about 8mans being high skill? The queue is OPT IN. If pugs had the ability to OPT OUT of playing against premades, you would see no whining on the subject at all. If 8mans were dropping against PUGs there would be a great deal of whining... there was, and rightly PGI fixed the problem. That they seem incapable of realizing that they only partially fixed the problem is downright baffling.

Gotta love attitude.

I am for the PUGs and for the pre-mades. We leasure on destroying PUGs in 4 man group drops, but antill PUGs aventually team up to a size to verse a 8 player drop, then you will see a new competitive side to mechwarrior that is 8 player group on group action. You must agree that if social groups are dropping in 4 player group drops then those lucky 4 random players will have a greater chance of winning and also the same for the opposing team. Everything is a Catch 22 scenario with this team setup. Remember its only beta and things will change.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

w0rm, on 29 January 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Proof for his assumption that there is a premade in every match.

well he's horrible wrong then when PUG only is winning as a single option (PUG exclusively (181 votes [39.01%]))

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 29 January 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[Bguk]

w0rm, on 29 January 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Regarding the rest of your post: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1811118

That link needs to be stickied. Who am I kidding, there will be some who won't read that. So I'll just bump.