425 replies to this topic

[Windies]

Stone Wall, on 03 December 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

I've played in plenty of games where people say, "wow this <insert stock mech> is actually pretty good!"

And I've seen people have success with the trial Catapult.

I saw a pig fly once, see what I did thare?

[MrPenguin]

Windies, on 03 December 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

I saw a pig fly once, see what I did thare?

You spelled "there" with an "a" instead of an "e"?

Edited by MrPenguin, 03 December 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[Stone Wall]

If you were playing the game, you might see people have success with trials also.

[Windies]

MrPenguin, on 03 December 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

You spelled "there" with an "a" instead of an "e"?

I actually expected a contention of my point or opinion rather than my intentional misspelling of a word.

[MrPenguin]

Windies, on 03 December 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

I actually expected a contention of my point or opinion rather than my intentional misspelling of a word.

You had a point? i just saw mindless non-sense so I assumed the "thare" was some kind of unfunny pun i wasn't getting.

Edited by MrPenguin, 03 December 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[Windies]

Stone Wall, on 03 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

If you were playing the game, you might see people have success with trials also.

Oh being completely serious I have racked up kills in trials. Of course I had to hide behind everything and make sure to get the last hit on a completely damaged CT section. But hey, I got da killz. Good times man, good times.

MrPenguin, on 03 December 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

You had a point? i just saw mindless non-sense so I assumed the "thare" was some kind of unfunny pun i wasn't getting.

It must be hard to have your eye's matrix in a mirror.

[Paramemetic]

Kristov Kerensky, on 03 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Now, that said, some of us have had no issues using the Trial Mechs, it simply takes understanding how the Mech works and working within that instead of trying to make it do something it's clearly not designed to do. Of course, you folks complaining about them also make other claims about things like weapons and heat and how they are all messed up because you can't make the game do what you want like you could in MW4. Well..personally...I would suggest you man up and learn how the game works because it's evidently NOT going to work as you demand despite the temper tantrums.

This is goofy. You know who use trial mechs?

People who are new to the game.

The same kind of people who might not fully understand the game mechanics and have already mastered heat management and weapon management. The same kind of people who might be prone to doing things that are ill advised.

Do you really, truly, deep in your heart think that the trial Jenner is an intuitive mech that is easily understood and easy to have fun in? Do you think someone is going to continue to play the game and have fun with the game if all four of their options to play early on are horrible experiences that literally require an experienced pilot to even make vaguely useful? Goons syncdropped 16 dudes in those mechs and seriously tested them out, they are nearly unplayable for experienced players. The awesomes hit 70% heat on snow maps by firing all three of one gun. If you fire all three ER PPCs in Caustic, you go into heat shutdown instantly.

So Newbie Publord Kerensky gets on the game, says "Awesome? That sounds Awesome I will play with that!" They jump on Caustic, see a dude 500m out, and pull the trigger. . . and shutdown overload. Is that really the first experience you feel like people should have with a game to have fun? Is that really the experience you think will encourage people to invest time and money into playing the game? Instant shutdown overload?

This isn't about saying the trial mechs are horrible and should be burned from the Earth. It's just that they do not teach skills, they teach people that this is a terrible game where they will always die. The devs have explicitly said this is not a pay to win game, they don't want to make it such, but at this stage with the trial mechs, it's "pay to be tolerable" or "grind out a horrible slog that is truly painful to play for real." That is not an easy product to try to sell. You might be a good enough pilot to run a trial mech like a pro, but someone who saw an ad for the game probably isn't and it will simply deter them from wanting to play further.



Edit: I don't mean by the above that the game really is terrible, I clearly don't think it is terrible. And I don't mean to tell PGI I know better about marketing than they do. I'm not their promoter or publisher. I'm not saying "this is a bad product and should feel bad." I'm just saying that the trial mechs are not really great for new players. I will personally say that if I didn't have friends to play with to make this game tolerable through the grind, I would have stopped playing. I would not have thought "man, so far this game has been miserable to play, I will invest money in it, that's a good solution!" I just would've walked away. As it stands, the only kinds of players who are likely to stick with this are those who really, really like BattleTech, and those who have a group. It is not in anyone's best interest to have this game entirely populated by veterans of the series and people playing with a group, as those are two pretty small factions. The point of any game for the end user is to have fun, and while some people enjoy the gritty BT reality, other people just want to shoot stuff with lasers.

Playing this game should not be a chore. Right now, unless you pay money for MC, getting a usable, customizeable mech is a chore. It is not fun, because you die regularly. It is not a learning experience, because there is no training. It is just a downright chore to tough it out for roughly 45 matches before you can afford a decent mech. And until you do that, you can't even experience the main functionality of the game, in the form of customizing mechs. The mech lab is a primary principle feature of this game and it's not even reasonable to click on that tab until you have played 45 matches of misery.

There are better ways to do it.

Edited by Paramemetic, 03 December 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[Scratx]

Okay, guys... any of you posting on this thread without having read the actual interview, stop posting and go read it.

The context is important, and the OP completely stripped it out and framed it to push his point.


So, go read the interview first, then comment.

Shesh, this is starting to look like Slashdot.

[Franchi]

Stone Wall, on 03 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

If you were playing the game, you might see people have success with trials also.

Yes those poor trials I slaughtered had such a fair chance, it is their own damn fault they were not successful

Never mind that they cannot out run or outgun me.

Edited by Franchi, 03 December 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[BloodLegacy]

I tried running a trial mech a couple matches to see what it feels like, how new players are introduced to the game. I only did that once, it was awful. Stock mechs are completely nonviable in the current heat system.

You CAN get kills with them if you are a highly skilled pilot, but you'll have a helluva time of it.

Edited by BloodLegacy, 03 December 2012 - 07:33 PM.

[Stone Wall]

Paramemetic, on 03 December 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

So Newbie Publord Kerensky gets on the game, says "Awesome? That sounds Awesome I will play with that!" They jump on Caustic, see a dude 500m out, and pull the trigger. . . and shutdown overload. Is that really the first experience you feel like people should have with a game to have fun? Is that really the experience you think will encourage people to invest time and money into playing the game? Instant shutdown overload?

This isn't about saying the trial mechs are horrible and should be burned from the Earth. It's just that they do not teach skills, they teach people that this is a terrible game where they will always die. The devs have explicitly said this is not a pay to win game, they don't want to make it such, but at this stage with the trial mechs, it's "pay to be tolerable" or "grind out a horrible slog that is truly painful to play for real." That is not a good product to try to sell. You might be a good enough pilot to run a trial mech like a pro, but someone who saw an ad for the game probably isn't and it will simply deter them from wanting to play further.

What if Mr. Newby then goes to the Forums and learns how to play? what then....

[Scratx]

Franchi, on 03 December 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

Yes those poor trials I slaughtered had such a fair chance, it is their own damn fault they were not successful

Oh, there was at least one premade of 3-4 on your side, I recognize like half those names.

What were you trying to prove, anyway? That you (plus a premade or as part of) can steamroll an entire enemy team?

[Stone Wall]

For real...no one is arguing a team of premades vs PUG trials are equal matches. Especially those guys in your screenshot. I've played against them and they aren't pushovers.

[Windies]

Stone Wall, on 03 December 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

What if Mr. Newby then goes to the Forums and learns how to play? what then....

What if Mr. Newby uninstalls and never comes back? What then....

[Franchi]

Scratx, on 03 December 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Oh, there was at least one premade of 3-4 on your side, I recognize like half those names.

What were you trying to prove, anyway? That you (plus a premade or as part of) can steamroll an entire enemy team?

For every point of damage their entire team did, I alone did 3.31

The point is that premade or not trial mechs are not viable versus custom builds that can run and gun faster for longer.

When you add in an ASSAULT mech like the 9m that cannot even keep ONE of its ER PPC's heat neutral you might as well just drop the new players in as infantry with a shoulder mounted single fire SRM launcher. at least then they know what they are.

Edited by Franchi, 03 December 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[MrPenguin]

Franchi, on 03 December 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

For every point of damage their entire team did, I alone did 3.31

In what mech did you do this I might ask?

Edited by MrPenguin, 03 December 2012 - 07:45 PM.

[Scratx]

Franchi, on 03 December 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

For every point of damage their entire team did, I alone did 3.31

The point is that premade or not trial mechs are not viable versus custom builds that can run and gun faster for longer.

When you add in an ASSAULT mech like the 9m that cannot even keep ONE of its ER PPC's heat neutral you might as well just drop the new players in as infantry with a shoulder mounted single fire SRM launcher.

Sorry, but I also had a match in my Catapult C1 where I killed 4 enemies, assisted on 2 and did almost 1000 damage (far higher than anyone else) and we still lost the match. So damage output and individual performance aren't a good benchmark unless taken in aggregate.

Now, as I hinted at before, I recognize at least 3 of those players in your screenshot as Comstar EU regulars. It's not a good example to push your point. I won't name them, but I don't have to. I know who they are and I'm pretty sure they're whom Stone Wall is thinking of.

Please find a better example.

[MrPenguin]

Scratx, on 03 December 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Sorry, but I also had a match in my Catapult C1 where I killed 4 enemies, assisted on 2 and did almost 1000 damage (far higher than anyone else) and we still lost the match. So damage output and individual performance aren't a good benchmark unless taken in aggregate.

Now, as I hinted at before, I recognize at least 3 of those players in your screenshot as Comstar EU regulars. It's not a good example to push your point. I won't name them, but I don't have to. I know who they are and I'm pretty sure they're whom Stone Wall is thinking of.

Please find a better example.

Also, if you haven't noticed. His screenshot doesn't even prove that he was fighting a team of trials to begin with. I've had matchs where everyone was custom and we lost that badly simply because someone did something stupid and we ended up all getting steam rolled.

[SixstringSamurai]

They should instead of just using a straight stock mech make small adjustments to the mech like remove a PPC and add in some heat sinks. Nothing major like a total custom build just a minor improvement so they can actually play a little before shutdown. Let's face it most people don't jump right into the forum before playing the game. Without an in game tutorial or at least a hint system that tells you "push this button to do this" most new players are completely lost. Worse is the builds should be functional on a standard mech but because they scaled up weapon heat and downgraded DHS it doesn't work.

If it was at all possible, probably the biggest "win" for a new player is if Trial Mechs had a Trial Mechbay that would allow them to say purchase only heat sinks and ammo but move weapons on and off of mechs without being able to purchase new or more weapons. Each time they reset the trial mechs it resets the mechbay. It would give them something of what they want in being able to customize in a limited fashion while not just magically giving them the full game without working for it.

[Franchi]

MrPenguin, on 03 December 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

In what mech did you do this I might ask?

6xsrm6 A1

Yeah go call for the nerf bat.

MrPenguin, on 03 December 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Also, if you haven't noticed. His screenshot doesn't even prove that he was fighting a team of trials to begin with. I've had matchs where everyone was custom and we lost that badly simply because someone did something stupid and we ended up all getting steam rolled.

actually 3 of them ARE trial mechs they did 5, 4 and 18 damage respectively.

If you can't tell who the trials are then I can't help you.

Edited by Franchi, 03 December 2012 - 07:54 PM.