2028 replies to this topic

[Redback]

I hope the so called NON BETA MWO is 1.2 decent because evrytime PGI add a new feature the game just has more glitches and new ways to boat the game. I can barely stomach 3-4 games per day.

Sounds buggy as hell, netcode still very poor, UI bugs galore, game closes to desktop again I would go on but it's all been covered and the polls under known threads support the claims.

[Draco Harkins]

Monky, on 07 December 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

I currently feel as though ECM is OP, I can't even consider running non ECM builds on my Cicada 3M which was not the underpowered chassis. I'd be crippling myself unnecessarily, even 1.5 tons of armor or weaponry isn't worth as much as the ECM is.

It needs to lose the no spotting thing - I don't mind it slowing locking down and info gathering, but targeting is an essential game mechanic. I can understand cutting you off from your team's info grid if you're inside the enemy bubble and it isn't countered, but your own personal targeting should still work, maybe at an even further reduced efficiency for locks/info sniffing. Keep the Artemis/BAP/NARC countering, BUFF NARC and BUFF BAP, let TAG do what it does. Then it would be perfectly acceptable to say 'Yeah I want this to buy time against missile strikes and make the enemy have a harder time getting good info on my team' or 'no I think I'd like an AMS better' or 'I could really use the firepower/armor etc more'.

Here are my suggestions for ECM;


1. Remove Atlas D-DC ECM capability

Reasoning - the Atlas is a team-anchor. Countering his ECM means certain death as the majority of his team's firepower is right there with him. Even better is the possibility of multiple D-DC, great fun to run into I assure you. I think it's safe to say ECM on a heavy or assault platform is probably a bad idea.

2. Add ECM to all variants of any chassis that is equipped with them (all commando, raven, cicada).

Reasoning - You will only see variants used to master the ECM capable chassis until majority of the players have it mastered. ECM is the most powerful 1.5 tons out there. After these chassis are mastered, the only ones that will be truly viable will be the ones equipping ECM.

3. Alter the way ECM works - drop the 'no locking enemies in an enemy ECM bubble, allow ECM to counter all missile enhancing addons such as Artemis, NARC, allow ECM to increase lockon and loadout info gathering time by 100% while their friendlies are covered by it. Alter friendly ECM's effect on enemies when they are within the bubble to prevent communication of enemies within your ECM bubble via lockon sharing (IE - lockons only show for them, not for their friendlies, and vice versa - information blackout is what ECM is about.

Reasoning - ECM should not be able to disrupt target people that are under it's umbrella, it is too essential a game mechanic. They should however be able to cut people off from their team's info grid, isolating and disrupting teamwork (removing target indicators like the A, B, C indicators etc so it is harder to coordinate fire as well while the player is within range of the enemy ECM). This is while the enemy is in range of the ECM. When FRIENDLIES are in range of ECM, targeting times against them are doubled, as well as the info sniffing to gather what items they have equipped. BAP of course is disabled by it, but NARC, and Artemis should be too.

Essentially, ECM should be altered from a 'game changer' to a 'neat tool that can counter certain things'. Also, BAP needs some serious buffs, like near instant info gathering, able to detect powered down mechs no matter what, able to spot at any range etc, to be comparable to the ECM.

(TLDR)
- Remove ECM from non-scout chassis
- Add ECM to all variants within ECM capable chassis
- ECM's defensive abilities should be this; increases lock on and info gathering time by 100%, disable benefits of Artemis, NARC, BAP against friendlies in the 'field of coverage'.
- ECM's offensive abilities should be this; removes 'target indicators' aka the A, B, C indicators, from view for any mech within the ECM field, increases their lockon time and info gathering time by 100% against all targets (not stacking with defensive bonus), and prevent info sharing between them and their teammates - lockons can only be provided by their onboard computer and they can't provide info to teammates.

No. Leave ECM as it is, make more counters. Your point is invalid.

[DeaconW]

Stingz, on 07 December 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

Sounds like a good way to gain infamy quick, and loose C-Bills fast. Missal Strong/Remove ECM, sounds like a good name to use.

Not sure of your point or your logic(what does "Missal Strong" have to do with it?)...we used this strategy quite successful against streakcats. I understand your concern though, given your sig...Hey, you've given me an idea, maybe we'll tag our group "Ready to Roll against ECM"...

[-Quiet-]

simple as that:
makes the game annoying and not fun to play
should make some kind of option or ability for all types of mechs that they will be able to disrupt\disable ecm
or just make it that less can have it

a few words for the lovely developers
SAD I M (because its all about fun and a matter of taste )
i just hope you going to change or tweak it a little because like that it toke lots the of fun and "simplicity" from the game we had few days ago ! and it effect big nomber of players/fans!
if you wanted gamers change the way they are think and play?
(and please dont give me that bragging line like: it make the players think strategic or its to much for noobs..)
ITS JUST NOT FUN AS IT WAS FEW DAYS AGO!!...
simple as that....
if you wanted to change the way the game act? well you did it ecm changes everything - ok - cool
but its not fun!(for me at least:)
the only reason i do not uninstalling this game its because 2 things
1. i spend like 80$ on this game
2.i stick around for the next patch and see if you fix it .

one thing for sure - for now as it is - you have lost customer .
but with much respect - tnx anyway WAS! nice

Edited by bioscmos303, 07 December 2012 - 10:18 PM.

[Lupus Aurelius]

Draco Harkins, on 07 December 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

No. Leave ECM as it is, make more counters. Your point is invalid.

Nope, not good enough, your opinion means zilch. If you are going to debate a topic, then you have to provide an objective analysis showing why it is invalid. Therefore, your statement is invalid, since it provides no logical argument nor objective data to counter his analysis.

[Revorn]

Now i have to use a LOS Item, to use a indirect Fire Weapon. Niece idea PGI. Rofl

[Belkor]

I love this ECM patch. The lame pure auto lock-on builds are no longer viable as ECMs promotes weapon diversification. People move out together more instead of camping or scattering. This is what Mech Warriors should be.

In my PUG battles, ECMs has very little influence on the outcome of the matches but still a great addition.

[ICEFANG13]

Belkor, on 07 December 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

I love this ECM patch. The lame pure auto lock-on builds are no longer viable as ECMs promotes weapon diversification. People move out together more instead of camping or scattering. This is what Mech Warriors should be.

In my PUG battles, ECMs has very little influence on the outcome of the matches but still a great addition.

ECM promotes diversification, but is only available on 4 mechs?
Genus!

I personally just don't enjoy the game right now. I'm happy ECM is in game, and its a great thing, but its not right at all right now, and I just can't continue playing for more than a few games. 3L is by far better than the Jenner used to be, where is the QQ? D-DC's dominate 8 mans, and base rushing is done terribly and still working, but ECM makes better tactics? LRMs are not a weapon anymore, honestly, its illogical to go with them. The game is so far out of wack right now, and people tell me to learn to counter and play. Which is equip ECM? I can counter it now, 3L games are boring and easy.

Edited by ICEFANG13, 07 December 2012 - 11:05 PM.

[Revorn]

Belkor, on 07 December 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

The lame pure auto lock-on builds are no longer viable

You Name it, but without some tactical Weapos like LRMs, MwO is only another simple runaround and make pew pew shooter. LRMing is more about Tactic as Aiming. But some never gets it.

[MasterofBlasters]

Belkor, on 07 December 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

I love this ECM patch. The lame pure auto lock-on builds are no longer viable as ECMs promotes weapon diversification.

You've obviously never met my 3 streak+ECM Commando.

[MeerKatV]

I was thinking one way to balance ECM's power is to tie features to equipment weight. Today's ECM would be an ECM3 weighing 4.5tons - ECM1 would be much closer to BT lore & would weigh 1.5 tons. This way you don't break the Raven's ECM capability and it's capacity to carry other electronic warfare equipment.

[Traven Lockwell]

Pretty much everything has been said in this thread. It's great that ECM introduces some effective Electronic Warfare elements to the game, however it's far too much of a game changer for one single item. Prior to ECM, two coordinated teams would have a short stand-off at long range. In games such as that, you had to make a move or risk taking too much LRM damage to be effective in a brawl.

As it stands now with ECM, you have both teams just standing there doing absolutely nothing for minutes on end just waiting for the opponent to attack, mainly because it's much easier to coordinate a defense then it is to coordinate an effective offense. The result is that you have two ECM equipped teams standing there twiddling their thumbs for 4+ minutes while the scouts scurry around beating on each other. The result of this is that whichever team loses patience and attacks first usually ends up losing.

I'm a brawler, I thrive in PUG games that have ECM around. When I choose to play with my clanmates, it just turns into whoever attacks first usually ends up losing. That's no fun for me.

[SmattC]

ECM has pretty much made half of the weapons useless, half of the mechs usless. Game isnt fun.
And for the ppl who think its making it more tacical. Complete rubbish, all the games i have been in , u huddle around ur ecm and charge. Makes for quick games though.

(everyone just charges cause u cant get LRM'd down, and when u get close u cant be streaked. Win Win.
Unless ur in a 8 man game, ECM ruins it for everyone

[Firehound]

I suggest a removal of not being able to lock cloaked targets. Perhaps in it's place, a 25% speed penalty versus jammed targets. Perhaps another such penalty for your mech having "low signal" THis makes streaks and LRMS noticeably weaker, while not worthless against cloaked targets, at least leaving a chance instead of the lockout.

Another idea would be standing heat, similar to the reactor. the ECM raises your minimum heat by a certain amount if on cloak mode or if jamming another ECM while on disrupt(but not when on counter without jamming a nearby ECM) It makes the ECM a little more of a burden, while not making it worthless.

Thirdly, a counter to the cloak mechanics, map marking. Instead of requiring commanders to mark maps, allow any player to mark a "Contact" which puts a generic marker to alert people of enemies. Possibly allow a commander to disallow or delete marks, and have marks fade after a few seconds.

[Logajam]

As currently implemented, ECM affects game play more then it should in my opinion. As a testbed for various information warfare systems being tested, it would be ok, but as a final item of equipment it needs to be toned down considerably.

It's hard to say if the "Cloak" or the "Disrupts targeting systems" is more broken. They are definitely reinforcing each other with only a 20m band in which unsupported homing weapons can function.

Conceptually, I don't know where the "Cloak" came from. From a Table Top perspective, Unless an ECM mech was hidden, if you had LOS to it, it's position was known. All forms of weapons could be fired at it without additional difficulty.

As a game mechanic I'd use the "Cloak" on other pieces of equipment. Stealth armor comes to mind especially. If it simply must be added to the ECM, I would like to see it tuned to allow target locks at farther ranges. Either subtracting the ECM radius from maximum range, or a 25% Reduction in maximum range.

There is nothing so frustrating as seeing 5 Giant stompy robots, shooting lasers and stuff at me, and having my mech tell me there is no one there.

"Disrupt target systems" also is not supported well from the Table top view point. If I have a mech with Streak missiles, and I'm standing 2 hex's away from a target with ECM, Streak missiles still work. It takes Angel ECM to finally force streak missiles to, Not stop working entirely, but behave like standard SRMs.

Game Mechanically, this is way to much of a hard counter. Making life more difficult for homing weapons to an extent is fine, Stopping them cold just makes ECM the Must have item to negate a fair percentage of possible weapons that can be used against you. It's providing too much of a defense boost for it's cost. If the 25% additional lock on time is kept it should provide some defensive bonus in a similar vein without being crippling to entire classes of builds. (And to be honest, Streak missiles need to be modified on how they operate, but this is not the venue for that discussion.)

The other features of ECM tend to fall to the way side compared to those two features, If and when ECM is adjusted their effects may become more noticeable.

[Motomoto]

i havent read all the posts, but it seems to me that those who love it is the ones running light mechs. and are happy with it because they now cant be streaked. And i am sorry to say that it looks like you just are happy with games having win buttons.

[MBison8888]

Ok after playing since the patch for ECM here's what I think:

i) I would not say ECM is OP since there are ways to play around it. However what i felt with the introduction of ECM now the dynamics of the game that PGI worked so hard on achieving is destroyed. The game has became very linear now (cap or being cap) and the engagement has been clusterfxxxs after clusterfxxxs on games I played so far. Almost all strategies are nullified and everyone just go under the cover of ECMs. I barely seen any lrms streaking through the skies any more. The engagements in clusterfxxxs kinda felt like Hawken now and Please don't make MWO head into that direction.

Suggestions:

i) Add a time limit on the ECM disruption, imo it will bring back strategizing as you can't just stroll around with ECM continuously flicked on. Ambushes will have more planning now this way.

ii) increase the tonnage and penalty of using ECM e.g. like certain weapons can't be used with ECM equipped which will limit the number of ECM mechs in the field

iii) limit the missile lock time increase protection to only the carrier mech to bring back weapon systems that became obsolete due to ECM

iv) increase ECM counter ratio to 1:2, since it's a more specific function, it should be more effective than the disrupt function.

v) TAG, BAP, NARC add on traits to counter ECM.

I think with these implementation it will balance out ECM and make electronic warfare more interesting, at the same time bring back all the weapons and strategizing we've seen before the ECM patch.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Hayashi, on 07 December 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

Asking people from the following threads to move discussion here. Conversely, people reading this thread may wish to read some of the info in the locked threads in case they contain info not yet posted in here.

Locked ECM feedback thread list:
http://mwomercs.com/...06#entry1568506
http://mwomercs.com/...-ecm-is-broken/
http://mwomercs.com/...the-ecm-debate/
http://mwomercs.com/...pected-benefit/

Locked ECM bugs (and workarounds) thread list:
http://mwomercs.com/...-forest-colony/
http://mwomercs.com/...hed-to-counter/
http://mwomercs.com/...friendly-mechs/

Locked ECM v TAG thread list:
http://mwomercs.com/...190-tag-vs-ecm/
http://mwomercs.com/...ecm-countering/

The purposes of locking and linking threads like this are to:

• Reduce cases where the same thing is said in multiple threads because people don't always cross-read threads. This reduces duplicate discussion.
  
• Allow all of the feedback to be readable, instead of being lost in a cloud of other posts, because this thread is stickied.
  
• Make it easier for developers to read and/or act on our feedback without having to search the entire forum when they want input on a specific issue - ie, ECM implementation.

Thank you for your cooperation.

---

P.S. We used to merge threads for this purpose, but doing so caused the link to the thread before the merge to disappear - the website couldn't keep track of which thread got merged into where; this gave the impression that threads were deleted without a trace. This lock-and-link method prevents that from happening. Granted, the original locked threads will still exist and it makes it a bit harder to read all of them than if they were merged, but it's going to be more effective than if you were to click on a link to previous discussion in your notifications only to get an error saying that thread no longer exists.

I would like to see ANY response from dev team about future rebalancing ECM so can decide to put more money into this game or just w8 for PoE...

[Koe]

The ECM is overpowered. True, it does add some strategy to the game - however, this strategy has completely taken over. Like it has been stated before, the ECM bubble makes everyone want to go ninja on the other team.

If the ECM bubble was reduced or taken out altogether, it would bring back some of the previous matches' tactics. The patch as it stands is meant for brawlers, goons who hate hate hate missiles and so wants no one to use them. Dodging artillery is basically part of Mechwarrior, and peeking out to find where the LRM boats are is quite a bit of the fun and strategy.

Granted, ECM does add a new layer to the game. But the bubble is turning the game into one giant laser/bullet hose.

[o0cipher0o]

hmm... i've played some more matches, always as a PUG, and my suggestions about ECM are:

• It should be a switchable ON/OFF system, when ON it should deal 50% heat.
  
• one ecm set on counter mode should be able to counter every disrubt ecm in his range.

as it stands now, it isn't the ecm OP, but the lights that can use it.

Edited by o0cipher0o, 08 December 2012 - 03:26 AM.