2028 replies to this topic

[StalaggtIKE]

Umbra8, on 10 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

The only thing they need to do is keep it in line with cannon. What they have is Guardian ECM with the Stealth Armour add on. So just make it take up an additional 12 crit slots (two in each arm, leg, and side torso) and generate 10 heat per cycle while active (citation: http://www.sarna.net...i/Stealth_Armor).

Or, you know, they could just nerf it to what Guardian ECM is supposed to do (http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite) which does buggerall outside of 180 meters. That would be balanced.

THIS, is what I been saying! ECM is not properly implemented.

[Murrdox]

Umbra8, on 10 December 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Very true, but it only did this for an enemy mech that was within it's 6 hex (180 meter) jamming radius. Which is fine, actually. It means a ECM mech that can get within an enemy group takes away all their targeting data. It's still very powerful, but when it has the radius limit it's riskier and requires more tactics and situational awareness than it does now.

I do think it's very cool when I have those moments where the enemy is jamming my sensors, and I have to figure out where the hell the jamming comes from. I think that's a fun gameplay enhancement. The part where I think it swings a tad too far is when I can't tell what nearby enemy mechs are Enemy or Friendly. If this were actual Battletech, I'd be able to tell from unit insignias and paintjobs, etc who I wasn't supposed to fire at, but in MWO, I'm essentially blind without those Blue and Red arrows telling me who to fire at.

[AlanEsh]

ECM stacking needs to go away. Multiple mechs should not cause ECM power to multiply, it should just let them spread out and cover more area.
Lose the stacking, and people won't feel they have to bring 6-8 ECM mechs to matches anymore.

[Big Bad Wulf]

MadaO, on 10 December 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

"smash through" sounds so dramatic. More like "walk through the open fields" like how newbie pugs tend to do. LRM stopped that stupid practice. Now ECM lets you do it again. No wonder you are happy.

1. Yes it was smash through putting it lightly.

2. Against teams who know how to use their weapon systems, they are still unable to that. But this requires "Teamwork and Coordination"

3. I am happy because it makes it more difficult for me kill someone. (I do not use missiles)

[Xenok]

I have posted suggestions for BAP, NARC and TAG previously. I have however thoguht through BAP and wish to change my earlier suggestion.

BAP should allow the mech equipped with it to target normally within 400m of target except that no data is fed to the team. You can target the ECM protected mech but no team members can do so based off your targeting information.

Suggestions on NARC and TAG were basically longer durration on NARC and longer range for TAG.

[DeaconW]

Marcus Wulf, on 10 December 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Yes strategy and creativity too! Like using it to mask you assault force and smash through prepared defenses (I was on the receiving end of this one.)

That is the ONLY strategy that is going on right now...

Quote

I am guessing you are an LRM (SSRM) boat driver based on your comment.

I do drive LRM Cat have been mainly driving Atlas, even before the last two patches. No, no SSRM boating, some of my builds use SSRM's for light killing....which are now useless, of course. So your assumption is wrong. I actually care about the GAME...not just how it may benefit me or my personal playstyle. For example, I thought the patch where LRM's became OP was ridiculous, even though it could benefit my LRM Cat role immensely. As others have said...the effect of ECM is disproportionate to its cost in weight or c-bills and it has no downsides. Everything in this type of game (and indeed, the world), has a downside. Please, someone tell me the paper to ECM's rock...

Edited by DeaconW, 10 December 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[Drexorn]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 10 December 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

What he said is vitally important.

The ECM should not negate any weapon system outside the 180m bubble, and indeed 1 way to "Balance" it would be for it to negate friendly LRMS/SSRMS INSIDE the ECM bubble if the ECM is on disprupt.

I agree, ECM is fairly cheap, causes no heat, has unlimited use and totally invalidates certain weapons. There's no downside to taking it. I think it would be more balanced if there was some trade off - if it took up a weapon hardpoint, had a set charge time (like jump jets) so you couldn't run it all the time and had to pick when to turn it on, raised heat in the mech, make it heavier (say 3-5tons) etc...
There are no real counters to it, tag i guess, but it still doesn't help much - 180M range of ecm, effectively giving the tag a range that only works when you're 180M-450M (270M range) within the target w/ecm.

Does BAP even do anything right now or is it like the command console? I have it equipped and I don't notice a difference at all.

ECM right now is a bit overpowered like artemis was when they introduced it. I have faith that it will get balanced eventually like everything else did. PGI has been very good at that.

Edited by Drexorn, 10 December 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[DeaconW]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 10 December 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

Wow? Creativity. Bunch up under and ecm bubble and rush the cap.

Rhino...shhh....that's "tactics" to some in this crowd...you know "smashing through" and all...

Edited by DeaconW, 10 December 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Ransack]

I am far from a TT purist, but the ECM as implemented is way too OP for 1.5 tons.

Quote

The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters.

This ECM has no drawbacks whatsoever. It does not generate heat, has extremely long range, stacks, is light weight and cheap. Problem is that with no more resets, they can't give it the treatment that modules got.

[Nemesiz416]

Drexorn, on 10 December 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

I agree, ECM is fairly cheap, causes no heat, has unlimited use and totally invalidates certain weapons. There's no downside to taking it. I think it would be more balanced if there was some trade off - if it took up a weapon hardpoint, had a set charge time (like jump jets) so you couldn't run it all the time and had to pick when to turn it on, raised heat in the mech, make it heavier (say 3-5tons) etc...
There are no real counters to it, tag i guess, but it still doesn't help much - 180M range of ecm, effectively giving the tag a range that only works when you're 180M-450M (270M range) within the target w/ecm.

Does BAP even do anything right now or is it like the command console? I have it equipped and I don't notice a difference at all.

ECM right now is a bit overpowered like artemis was when they introduced it. I have faith that it will get balanced eventually like everything else did. PGI has been very good at that.

Exactly. This is the problem with ECM. There is NO tradeoff. You get an awesome piece of equipment that gives you amazing abilities to screw with the other team, and there is no penalty other than a few tons and slots. No heat, no large amount of slots taken, no excessive weight etc. And forcing the other team to get ECM or get screwed over is not balance. They should have brought back Knockdowns before ECM because right now with the lag shield it's pretty difficult to hit light ecm mechs running circles around you, and you can't rely on streaks anymore. I used to run my Atlas with SRM6s, but switched to streaks after I got frustrated my lasers weren't hitting lights even though I saw the beams hit them. I also think it's ridiculous when the players abusing ECM keep saying "Adapt and Change or get left behind!" What they're basically saying is "I get all these free abilities. Find a way to deal with it or tough luck" All i'm asking for is... Balance. I will find new ways to deal with ECM, so long as they pay penalties for using ECM.

Edited by Alex Steiner Davion, 10 December 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[FenrisWard]

ECm should only work in 180M Range whren the Enemy is in this Range and not cloak also over this range. In BT it is a System that only works if the ECm Mech is near you and not work over the Wolrd and block every targeting.

[Nightfangs]

Just one simple request: Change "ECM-atlas online" back into the diverse game it once was.

[Murrdox]

Alex Steiner Davion, on 10 December 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

All i'm asking for is... Balance. I will find new ways to deal with ECM, so long as they pay penalties for using ECM.

I haven't had it happen too often, because ECM is all the rage right now, and most of the time I PUG there are at least 3 Mechs on each side with ECM.

But I have had it happen a couple times where the enemy group has 3-4 ECM and my side has only 1. We got absolutely destroyed. The same thing has happened in reverse. We had a Raven and an Atlas with ECM, plus another Mech I can't remember. The only Mech on the other side with ECM was an Atlas, and we pretty much destroyed them.

My experience is completely subjective of course, and a few matches do not necessarily mean a trend.

But it does raise the question of whether or not a single piece of equipment should have this much impact on the game that it imbalances an entire match, especially in PUGs where you really have no say in configuring the make-up of your group.

[Latvanis]

This game was awesome! Before they introduced ECM.
Cant wait new patch. Because then i will know ,if i can come back to play this game ,or just instnat uninstal. Its all depends on ECM change.
Cos right now ,i cant even stomach 1 game win or loose, dosent matter. Cant even pug normaly.
And those scrbus whining about *go find dropshit n stuff" Dont go on full ****** mode. If i wanted to play with 8 man team ,then i would.

Edited by D1irte, 10 December 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[Stormwolf]

I'd personally like to see the ECM closer to what it is in the TT.

ECM does not prevent mechs from targetting enemies while using Streaks or LRM's, ATM launchers on the other hand are effected (but they won't be around for many years).

From Total Warfare:

Quote

ECM SUITE
An ECM suite has an eff ect radius of six hexes that creates a
“bubble” around the carrying unit. The ECM’s disruptive abilities
aff ect all enemy units inside this bubble, as well as any line of sight
traced through the bubble. It has no eff ect on units friendly to the
unit carrying the ECM.

Within its eff ect radius, an ECM suite has the following eff ects
on the following systems. The ECM suite does not aff ect other
scanning and targeting devices, such as TAG and targeting
computers.
Active Probe: Active probes cannot penetrate the ECM’s area
of eff ect. The probing unit would notice that it is being jammed,
however.

Artemis IV FCS: ECM blocks the eff ects of Artemis IV fi re
control systems. Artemis-equipped launchers may be fi red as
normal missiles through the ECM, but they lose the Cluster Hits
Table bonus.

Narc Missile Beacon: Missiles equipped to home in on an
attached Narc pod lose the Cluster Hits Table bonus for that
system if the pods themselves lie within an ECM “bubble.” The
Narc launcher itself (standard and iNarc) is not aff ected by ECM.

C3 and C3i Computer: ECM has the eff ect of “cutting off ” any C3-
equipped unit from its network. If a C3 master unit is isolated from
the network because it ventures inside the ECM radius, the entire
portion of the network below it is eff ectively shut off (all units
subordinate to it on the diagram on p. 132). Only those C3 units able
to draw an LOS to the master unit that does not pass through the
ECM radius can access the network. If the master unit that connects
the lances of a company lies inside the ECM eff ect radius, the link
between the lances is lost, though each lance’s network functions
normally (unless the ECM also interferes with them individually).

ECCM is already present with the disrupt mode, but I'd also like to see Ghost Targets in there as well:

Quote

Ghost Targets
An ECM suite can be tuned to generate “ghost targets”
that may affect the ability of enemy units to properly target
friendly units. The ECM loses its normal functions when used
in this way. The player must announce the switch to ghost
target generation in the End Phase of any turn, or may set the
suite for ghost target generation at the start of the scenario. In
either case, note the change on the record sheet of the unit
in question.

You could use this and have a Raven send out false information to the enemy team and get them to move to a area where you could set up a ambush.

[warp103]

DEV. I think Mack has it right.




Epic Fail lol. PEW PEW PEW C.O.D. clone with heavy mechs.

[Mr Styx]

ecm thus far is good but imagine how good it could be on larger maps


tho mack does have a point....... the game started brawly got better and back to brawly
narc and tag bap should be a counter this far only tag is(if you tape down your mouse button lol)

Edited by Mr Styx, 10 December 2012 - 01:41 PM.

[Tolkien]

http://www.mwowiki.o...termeasure_(ECM)

Read down the feature list... then keep in mind, this 1.5 ton 2 slot piece of equipment counters

NARC: A thing that weighs 4 tons and 3 slots (including 1 ton of explosive ammo....)

BAP: A system that weighs 1.5 ton and 2 slots also, but all it does is increase your sensor range by 25%...

TAG: A 1 ton 1 slot system that will now allow a lock but now provides no bonus to missiles that will hit, and requires active coordination and holding it on a target while the ECM works passively.

Artemis: An expensive to maintain ammo system which takes up 1 ton and 1 crit for every single launcher on the mech...

Streak locks: Pretty big nerfing.

LRM locks: Huge nerfing.

ECM: Seriously the system also has a mode where it counters other ECMs... good show... what the hell.

So there you have it - a system which weighs/takes up less space than multiple other systems which it hands down disables, which requires no user input, and is less dangerous to equip than an AMS because at least AMS had exploding ammo somewhere in your mech.

I never ran streak SRM and thought they needed a nerf, but damn this is silly.

edit - forgot it completely nullified artemis too.. herp derp.

Edited by Tolkien, 10 December 2012 - 01:52 PM.

[DeaconW]

Mr Styx, on 10 December 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

ecm thus far is good but imagine how good it could be on larger maps

I know...you will be able to charge at max speed right at the enemy cap for even LONGER under the ECM umbrella. More use of "Tactics!" <wink wink nudge nudge>...

[Josh Davion]

Once they actually implement a game mode WITHOUT a stupid base; larger maps are going to be AWESOME XD