100 replies to this topic

[Hansh0tfirst]

ICEFANG13, on 04 December 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

The RVN-3L is just as good as the Jenner, save a energy hardpoint (don't tell me that 3KPH is enough to matter), but can use ECM. 3L flocks will be the norm, and the 2X and 4X will never be used ever. Personally, I would limit all three to a 280 engine, and let all 3 use ECM. I do pilot a Jenner, and I'd understand if I'm biased, but based off what's in front of you, the 3L is really just as good, but with ECM and not a laser.

Right. The RVN-3L is just as good as the Jenner, which is why you bought a Jenner... because that extra energy hardpoint, jumpjets and 3kph weren't an advantage prior to ECM.

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

Darian DelFord, on 04 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

... what is now our role in combat.

Cannonfodder!

[ICEFANG13]

I won't argue the Jenner wasn't better, and I'm happy that the Raven is now very good, honestly, but the Jenner is just inferior to the 3L with the ECM. A Energy hardpoint does not a good build make, especially when the 3L nullifies 40% of the firepower of the Jenner-D.

[sheradin]

also use must take into co0nsider that thier are no more jenner plants they were destroyed so jenner varients are polit mods not factory models

[Screech]

Bleary, on 04 December 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

If the other side has three Ravens with ECM and your side has three Jenners (and the Jenner pilots can actually, you know, hit what they're shooting at) then you're going to end up with dead Ravens.


Scouting is only one of the things light 'Mechs do. If you want to chase down and kill something -like an enemy Commando with ECM- then any electronics you mount are just one less gun you could've had. Which means you want a Jenner. (Or if you're being a rebel, a non-ECM Raven).

Jenners ruled the light 'Mech roost because they were good at killing things, not because they were better scouts. That's what the 'Mech is there for. That's how it will continue to be used.

Jenners ruled the roost because they could kill, they do have the best hardpoints, but also because they were the best at avoiding being killed. A good Jenner pilot could dictate which battles he fought and which he did not. The only thing you couldn't get away from as a Jenner is a better Jenner pilot.

But with ECM you have a whole new set of rules that aid to your survival. You are able to remain undetected much easier, allowing you to get in the first strike, when you disengage you can disappear and can elude with ease. Hit and run tactics are vastly easier and more effective. LRM and SSRM are no longer much of a danger.

major humdinger, on 04 December 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

the role of a good jenner now is to go use its 6 med laser package and destory the ecm lights.

Might be right about this, though a 6SL Jenner is so much deadlier the a 6ML one.

[LionZoo]

ICEFANG13, on 04 December 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

I won't argue the Jenner wasn't better, and I'm happy that the Raven is now very good, honestly, but the Jenner is just inferior to the 3L with the ECM. A Energy hardpoint does not a good build make, especially when the 3L nullifies 40% of the firepower of the Jenner-D.

Jump jet turn? Jump jets are still a pretty powerful advantage. (Which is why the JR7-D with ECM PLUS jump jets would have just been broken.)

Edited by LionZoo, 04 December 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

I agree that Jump Jets are important, but when Streaks have such a limited range, and normal missiles don't work on good scouts, that still is huge. I have considered this, but since JJ's weigh 2.5 and 5 slots, and I don't use one at a time because I don't want to use things that are broken, I feel ECM is a much bigger edge.

EDIT: I also don't want the Jenner to have ECM, not at all, please don't misunderstand me, I want the Raven to rock, but in my opinion, the 3L is by far better than the K or D.

Edited by ICEFANG13, 04 December 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[Creel]

NARC needs to penetrate ECM and have a longer duration. After that, my jenner is the shot caller.

[LionZoo]

ICEFANG13, on 04 December 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

I agree that Jump Jets are important, but when Streaks have such a limited range, and normal missiles don't work on good scouts, that still is huge. I have considered this, but since JJ's weigh 2.5 and 5 slots, and I don't use one at a time because I don't want to use things that are broken, I feel ECM is a much bigger edge.

EDIT: I also don't want the Jenner to have ECM, not at all, please don't misunderstand me, I want the Raven to rock, but in my opinion, the 3L is by far better than the K or D.

I kind of agree, but I think the ECM will be getting nerfed, probably before the jump jet bug will be fixed. My own personal hypothesis is that PGI intentionally made ECM more powerful than what they expect the final version to be, just so everyone that can mount them will mount them. This way, they have a bigger datapoll to draw on for finding any bugs or figuring out where the optimal is.

[Hansh0tfirst]

ICEFANG13, on 04 December 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

I won't argue the Jenner wasn't better, and I'm happy that the Raven is now very good, honestly, but the Jenner is just inferior to the 3L with the ECM. A Energy hardpoint does not a good build make, especially when the 3L nullifies 40% of the firepower of the Jenner-D.

So instead of being better than 3 out of 3 Ravens, and 4 out of 4 Commandos, now you're only better than 2 out of 3 Ravens, and 3 out of 4 Commandos?

Boo. Hoo.

[ICEFANG13]

Haha I'm in the 3L and I'm still winning effortlessly. I just preferred the Jenner remain good because I like it, and I like it cause I think its cool, its not about winning or losing, its about playing with what I love

And for the record, I'm better than most other players, its not about the mech, its about the player.

Edited by ICEFANG13, 04 December 2012 - 09:13 PM.

[DakaDakka]

I'm liking the ECM...granted, being a jenner, I am slightly perturbed that we lost out on the weapon, but after playing for a bit I am fine with it. I felt the jenner was already top of the lights by far and with this ECM it gives the other two mechs a reason to be played. Granted this meant I have had to change my play style a bit (got rid of my SSRM's and loaded some SRM 4's) which does make dueling other lights a bit tougher, but with time I will get the hang of the new setup.

new goal...take out lights carrying ECM...thats what the Jenner is for I may have to switch to a 6 SL variant..but that remains to be seen

[Sean von Steinike]

I would say, striker. It's always been primarily a striker mech. Also, to kill other lights, particularly if they are carrying ecm.

[ICEFANG13]

But why would you use a Jenner-D or K over a Raven-3L for striking? Jump Jets, and those aren't working correctly right now (and I want them fixed myself, asap), and an energy hardpoint.

[Heeden]

Screech, on 04 December 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Might be right about this, though a 6SL Jenner is so much deadlier the a 6ML one.

I've heard this before but I can't understand how SLas can beat MLas.

[Jacmac]

Darian DelFord, on 04 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Question, scout wise what can we bring to the table that the Commando and Raven can not do better:?

Pair an ECM Commando with SSRMs and a Jenner with SSRMs, you have a great combo for hunting and killing enemy ECM scouts. But yeah, Jenners not so important now.

Heeden, on 04 December 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

I've heard this before but I can't understand how SLas can beat MLas.

Shorter firing cycle + less heat = More Alphas

[hammerreborn]

Heeden, on 04 December 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

I've heard this before but I can't understand how SLas can beat MLas.

Probably rate of fire compared to heat.

[LoneUnknown]

Tempered, on 04 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Try to avoid the streak ravens because you have little defense against them, except speed.

Don't be fooled, a 3L raven with max engine and speed tweak breaks 146kph.
Only the 2x and 1x ravens are slow.... the ones without ECM anyway.

[Walk]

imo, the Jenner is more of a heavy harasser, used for ******* off enemies by running in, throwing a few alphas, then disappearing. Personally, I run one with 6 mls, and let me tell you, that 30 alpha is nothing to scoff at if you are good at holding your beams in a consistent spot. You can use your superior speed and maneuverability to get behind the heavy/assault mechs, unleash 3-4 alphas, and **** so you can cool down, lose the enemy, and find a new opening to exploit.

One of my favorite moments was dropping with a friend. I snuck around back, and managed to find a lone catapult. Because he was zoomed in, he didnt notice me sneaking up behind him. Took him from full to dead in two well concentrated alphas, he didn't even notice I was there until after my lasers had recycled and begun firing the second salvo. Using that good flanking positioning, I proceeded to do immense damage to the enemy team with hit and run tactics aimed at chewing through their rear armor.

The jenner CAN scout, but it is outclassed by Raven/commandos by far for that particular role. What it does bring is a highly mobile chassis with ridiculous(30 for a light mech, that's equivalent to twin gauss rifles) alpha strike damage against fragile rear ends of mightier mechs. Best of luck!

[Walk]

Heeden, on 04 December 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

I've heard this before but I can't understand how SLas can beat MLas.

quite frankly, it depends entirely on playstyle. In a long, 1v1 engage with little cover or running away, SL's are technically better because you can fire off those 18 damage alpha SL's indefinitely, just holding down the trigger. However, this is a poor way to play the Jenner; you are a light mech, you cannot stand toe to toe with enemies who aren't potatos. This makes the mls superior for hit and run, your goal is to get that as much of that 30 alpha as you can into the rear torso of an opponent before he notices you. Two, maybe three alphas max. Then you G T F O, allowing for both cooldown and for your target to re-engage another mech and forget about you. Sneak back behind and rinse and repeat. Remember, once the netcode is fixed, you WILL NOT be able to just run around in circles and never get hit, you WILL have to play smart and use hit and run tactics. But for now...

If you are one of those pilots who just circles around your enemies and hopes they don't hit you, run the 6 sls, as you can shoot them indefinitely and will do more damage before you die. If you prefer guerrilla tactics, run the 6 mls and focus on hit and run tactics aimed at unloading your alphas into rear torsos.

Edited by Walk, 04 December 2012 - 11:16 PM.