165 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Right now, ECM is doing more than it should.

It should be rendering Artemis/NARC/missile boosters useless and disabling Streak guidance, and disabling advanced target-sharing like what gives LRMs 1000m range vs 630m.

Instead, it renders normal LRM fire useless and disables Streak launchers, period. Overkill.

That it also gives impressive stealth abilities is turning most matches I'm in into blob-of-death tactics. While I approve of PUGs learning to stick together, it's a little much there as well.

Yes, exactly. It should have had more minor effects, such as slowing a missile lock or disabling the benefit of Artemis/BAP, not entirely preventing them from being used at all. They should have given you a penalty which is then negated if you had a BAP; instead the BAP and missiles themselves are entirely stomped. If I was to put this into perspective for the shortbus part of our forum, imagine having a scale where a brick is on one side vs a pebble on the other side.

[batesman]

Egyas, on 04 December 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

ECM is a game changer indeed. It changed to game to "not worth playing". All that money spent on mechs that were LRM boats (or even just LRM equpied) to find them useless. Streaks? Fugetaboutit!

This game just changed to making the Raven and that god-forsaken Jenner the ONLY mech's with playing. For shame.

I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. I regularly step on their remains with my hunchbacks.

[Asmudius Heng]

Agree with you nightcrept - one peice of equipment shoulod not be able to render entire weapon groups unusable the majority fo the time.

I thought before ECM came in things were not balanced, but the game was playable with quite a lot of diversity despite the terrible game mode. The weapons were not optimally set with long range being way underpowered and some builds being really OP of course.

However i generally saw people moving tactically, taking cover, thinking about there they were moving.

Now, people can take a close range build and rush in. Long range was poor enough before and now the one weapon that made a difference at range seems to be borderline useless.

Most games eem to be a rush to cap a base now under cover ... ships in the night. Or a brawfest when you meet head on. All the counters people offer are not worth the effort. He who has the most ECMs tends to win if there is co-ordination.

The long game, and the tactical movement required to positionyourself for effective range while avoiding being stomped by closer ange rushers is gone. Brawls are fun, but they require reflexes not great tactical co-ordination. Throw in the problems with net code and you have a pretty bad experience for those that favour terrain based warfare and carful movement to keep onself hidden, or not, depending on your objective.

Rush the base with ECM, or defend your base with ECM seems to be the other of the day.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Nightcrept, on 05 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Many of you are being very self centered.

This is about balance for all players in all modes. It isn't about sticking it to the LRM boaters or streak cats. That should be handled through weapons balance.

I do not drop with pre-mades so the balance issue in those type of games i will not dare to speculate about.

However, in pug games it comes down to who has the most ecm mechs. That is the very definition of not balanced.

Do you remember when the lrm artemis patch turned the game into rocket warrior online. The team who won was usually the one with the most lrm boats. That was a serious unbalance.

And this is a worse unbalance then that.

well said that man! this game only promotes a community if all camps can have equal involvement on the battlefield. some people have had the nerve to say now scouts have a role.

mechwarrior before the patch:

i'll scout left.... ping ping 2 mechs on that side, good now i know and can make a tactical desicion cause my own radar won't pick up much until they're in LOS anyways.

mechwarrior ecm:

scout wonders slowly with heavys shielding them, we have no idea where the enemy is cause they're doing the same.... um.... RACE TO CAP RACE TO CAP!

so don't get me started on scouts, lights hardly scout at all now. then what use does any fire support mech have now that they have to fight in LOS which because of the small maps is usually under 600m where many more weapons are better than er lasers and in a heartbeat the brawlers all swarm into 200m where they greatly out gun you and death awaits. it's just not worth being a sniper these days and when mechs brawl the lag kicks in which makes poor gameplay too.

Lyrik, on 05 December 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

Played 6 games yesterday after patch. 2 with 2xLRM15, 4xML Catapult and 4 with my Jenner 4xMPL. I had a lot of fun in all of them. Thank you PGI for making this awesome game :-)

In every match we had 2-3 Mechs equipped with ECM on both sides. They are popular.

The good:
Much less SSRM and LRM mechs online. .
More tactics. Sneak and hide is really fun with Mechs who a speed between ~60 and 70.
ECM Mech is the new StreakCat/Gausscat. Priority Target xD

The bad.
To cheap in weights, heat, crits, CB.
A little bit to strong against LRM and SSRM.


Instead of nerving ECM they should buff TAG :-)

first off i see a trend of all this equipment becoming essential items, which kills build flexability making it manditory to have artimis with missles and tag etc, then bap to counter ecm etc. old mechwarriors worked because such equipment didn't play such a dominating role on the battlefield. then this guy reckons it's cool that an ecm mech is as maddening to kill off as a streak cat.... how does that improve anything!? one bad egg replaces another. i'm surprised people find ecm to "introduce" sneeak tactics. man it was so easy to flank lrm boats before they never see you coming and rear hits are more common in this version of mechwarrior than anyother. that's why standard mechs have the same amount of armour on the back as the front. a first time in mechwarrior games simply cause radar won't help you on the side or behind, it's been cut to LOS and really has little use. so sneaking has always been far too easy for this version of mechwarrior but now... almost every moment is a mech that never pinged. so as far as i'm concerned it's like anyother shooter just with heat management, hope you enjoy the simplistic play cause i want more to think about on the battlefield than can i see it can i shot can i run gameplay.

[TBB Grizz]

Voted as "balanced", but would like to see some tweaking. Not so much nerfing the ECM, but boosting counter measures. I'm sure there will be some sort of number crunching by the developers. My D-DC with LRMs is enjoying the recent craze that ECM has enabled however. Seems that AMS sales are crashing... And tactics like the use of cover evidently no longer work?

"Ok boys! Under the umbrella, don't fall behind or the boaters will get ya!"

Edited by TBB Grizz, 05 December 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

My vote has been changed after seeing ECM in action. The game has turned into turtle warrior online. Lots of 8 man teams just sitting in a spot waiting for the other team to advance.

In short--BORING AS HELL!

ECM needs a change, a big change.

[Orthodontist]

ECM has been the hallmark saving grace of the last few patches. It brings with it a different mindset and play-style that has been severely lacking since its supplementation into the game.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

I play in premades exclusively. While I appreciate the information warfare ECM adds to the game, it is far too important. A simple 1.5 ton piece of equipment dictates who can target your mechs, It locks out SSRMs/LRMs, it counteracts the enemy's attempt to do the same to you.

A team could choose not to have Assault mechs, Light mechs. LRMs, Streaks, or Gauss Rifles and still win. A team cannot forgo putting ECM on as many mechs as possible. It is mandatory on every team. Thus I can only conclude that ECM is grossly overpowered.

Edited by Eldragon, 05 December 2012 - 10:27 PM.

[ryoken12]

Zylo, on 05 December 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

So... I'm guessing you play a streak cat and prefer gold ammo pay-to-win in WoT?

No i play My Founders mechs mostly stock, and buy stock mechs and play them for realism. No SSRM boats. Also i do not use gold ammo in WoTs, I been there since Closed Beta with 12K games in Beta, and now 11K games since release.
I fail to see why they took a piece of Battle tech gear, and gave it a ton of crap it never had in Battletech. It did not make missiles useless, it did not hide entire lances you have LOS to. They made it way to powerful, and i am dreading what hell they are going to introduce with the clans next month.

[Belkor]

KingKalvin, on 04 December 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

An item, after its release, basically changed the whole game?

I've seen too much negative reaction to know that it did more bad than good.

Brawlwarrior Online?
CommandoWarrior Online?
CapthebaseWarrior Online?
D-DCWarrior Online?

If there are more people voting NO than Yes then there is something terribly wrong.

Brawlwarrior online is far superior to StreakOnline. Many more types of weapons than streaks or LRM.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Asmosis, on 05 December 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

ECM is fine,

ECCM is not. the counter to ECM should be available to all (most) mechs in the same way AMS is available to all (most) mechs.

I disagree. Regardless of what the counter is, the equipment is far to effective/useful for the weight/crits/cost to be considered balanced. Forcing players to choose between two mandatory bits of equipment is little better than forcing them to take one... but then only allowing it on certain mechs

[Cymax]

My personal humble opinion form playing a few hours worth of PUG matches:
Disclaimer: I have high Latency. I do have a quad core pc but still get low FPS. So the game is slow and has LAG issues. If those issues are fixed by getting the FPS ingame higher again and localised servers some of the ECM issues should be better to cope with.
As it is I do like missles. I do occasionally like being a LRM boat. I also use SSRMs on light mechs due to LAG and FPS issues. I like brawling too and have a nice fast Hunchback that I annoy larger mechs with. I use Hit and run tactics etc. Much more difficult with low FPS.

I like playing different roles and am still looking for what I like the most.

Before ECM my kill ratio was the best with missles mainly due to LAG and FPS issues so for anyone in my position if you wanted to make the most Cbils you would have to exclusively play LRM boats. That may be a reason why people see so many LRM boats.
In the matches I have played I do not see that many. If it was really a "huge" issue just make the missles less powerful. The same with the streaks. But using ECM to counter 2 weapons seems like overkill.

Personally I liked the tactics employed before the ECM patch. In the matches I have played since ECM it mostly was the team with the most ECM that won. Also the tactical options decreased to 1. Everyone in an ECM bubble to CAP. If you run into each other it is a brawl to the death.

I also notice the variety of Mechs decreasing in matches. You need to be a brawler or ECM to help your team.

Other people have already made good suggestions regarding how to modify ECM but I would like to add my own:

Make ECM “hide” only itself and one other mech. This would make it effective to be a stealth scout and able to hide one other unit. It could assist LRM boats or snipers. It could then also sneak an Assault unit behind the enemy. This would counter the current Big bubble tactic.
Have it decrease detection and lock on range. Also increase lock on times but allow the detection range and lock on times to be countered by BAP. Also Narc seems underpowered to me. Have it last longer and be visible to all even if ECM is in effect.
Remove the effect where it cuts you off from your team mates if your under the effect of a enemy ECM or make it very small.

[Nightcrept]

Belkor, on 05 December 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Brawlwarrior online is far superior to StreakOnline. Many more types of weapons than streaks or LRM.

Then you balance the weapons.

You do not create a even more extreme counter unbalance. No one is saying that streaks didn't need a balance.

What most people are saying is that the ecm is overpowered because it removes entire weapon trees. Not nerf or balance but remove.

Edited by Nightcrept, 06 December 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[Nightcrept]

ReD3y3, on 04 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

give ECM some time

I feel that LRM boaters and streak cat users are the ones crying foul

WTF? if srms and lbx10s actually had a role?

Blasphemy!

Then read more. Most players currently use lrms and brawlers. I use both. I give the mods or whoever permission to go look at what I have been running since the patch and post it here. I have been primarily been running a d-dc brawler and maybe a dozen games with my founders mech lrm boat config.

So I am speaking form someone who uses all configs. I treasure balance for all builds not just my personal pet load out.

[Corvus Antaka]

if the ECM bubble stays as is, the invisibility needs to go. whats the point of LRMS at all if they cant ever even get a lock?

ECM doubling lock times is fine, completely removing them is horrible. BAP restoring lock times - good. Before ECM LRM where avoidable & you had options, called cover. Now, you have cover, but you dont need it except to dodge all the direct fire.

IMHO the bubble is aweful. ECM should only affect the scout mech it is on, no assault should carry one, and to achieve the bubble a linked ECM & Command Console should be needed.

lock should never be removed, this loss of IFF is way overkill on the ECM and this should be another module..an IFF Jammer, which probably still isnt a great idea if you want this game to stay newb friendly.

8 mans are turning into base rush ECM warrior, 10-15 minutes of slugging it out across a ridgeline is a waste of time and money, LRMS cant be used to flank or flush.

I also very much dislike how much this game is focused on focus fire in general. Yeah, its a valid tactic, but this 8 man humpfest isnt hardly much fun, where is the dueling? the good combat?

on a final note, ECM is simply doing to many and too complicated things. Look to mech4, and remember, KISS - Keep it simple, stupid.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 06 December 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[Justin Xang Allard]

Gailyn Strome, on 04 December 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Well they finally did it, they made light mechs the only mechs worth playing. Patch afer patch they completely shatter the idea of the gameplay in this game and each completely insane item they add or change to cater to the fairy fan boys makes the game worst. "It's a beta", I get that but PGI has shown no sign of learning from the countless other Team Vs Team based combat games, of which there are thousands.

I was suckered into believing in this game, even through the LRM Mistake, Streak Mistake, AC Spam Mistake and now this. There is little to no actual customization left in this game, think about it. Can you take an ECM? If yes, take ECM. Do you have 3 Ballistic Slots? If yes, spam AC/2 or AC/5. Otherwise spam low end lasers and streaks. Every single mech can be pidgeon holed into 3 basic setups, that is weak, really weak.

So, I am done with this game. I would sell my account but PGI would just ban it anyway. Enjoy the money to milked out of me PGI you won't be getting any more.

Also, love the "Hero" mechs. Or as players call them "AFK Bots".

first off they are not catering to "fan boys" they are trying to respond to all the complainers in the forums. take ecm for example. bla bla bla lrms are too powerfull bla bla bla lrms ruin the game, streaks are too powerfull bla bla bla. they insert ecm which makes non direct fire weapons (lrms/ssrms) harder to use. immediatly everyone starts complaining..... the reason why they buffed the lighter weapons was because everyone complained that there was no reason to use them.

the best way to deal with the ac spammers is to shoot them and kill them. their weapons dont do much damage and if your moving its hard to hit you with them.

as far as the customization options goes, i have no problem with it. yes there are 3 different types of set ups. close range, long range, and mixed. this is pretty much standard for most games i believe.

on changing the game, i love it! every patch is like christmass for me lol. i get to adapt and overcome what ever was changed. shifting my tactics. the artems god patch, i bought an atlas with the two ams, then used it with 4 tons of ammo. the ssrm patch really didnt affect me, i just shot the cats running ssrm boats first. with ecm, if im running with any guys firing lrms or streaks i just switch modes. its the j button.........

btw most of the "fan boys" would like them to return to a more table top rule system, where the games are quicker and require a bit more skill, where those who cry the loudest receive the most incomming fire........

but seriously, because you cant target a mech 1500 away, or learn to use cover from the vile ac2 spammer your really going to leave? give it some time, think about what you can do to win, then win.

[Justin Xang Allard]

Nightcrept, on 06 December 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

Then you balance the weapons.

You do not create a even more extreme counter unbalance. No one is saying that streaks didn't need a balance.

What most people are saying is that the ecm is overpowered because it removes entire weapon trees. Not nerf or balance but remove.

ecm does not remove entire weapon trees, what it does is make people think about what they are doing a bit. if you are running with a lrm cat, tell your team to run their ecm in the mode that nullifies the other ecm. this makes ecm inert. if you dont like ecm just run counter ecm.
fixed

[Alphascrub]

-Limit it to light mechs. 100 ton steel towers do not need it.
-Allow narcs to cancel out ecm disrupt on their target, meaning a enemy that is tagged no longer benefits from a friendly ECM at all, regardless of the number of ecms active.

Why do I want these kind of things? because it promotes risk reward warfare.

[Saxophonist]

ECM is totally and completely unbalanced. It isn't canon that the Guardian counters LRM's and streaks! That's not for two years with Angel. When one item completely invalidates another, it's unbalanced.

[Valleros]

Moonsavage, on 04 December 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

For those people who voted "yes" - go play 10 games before you clicky clicky :-P

I have played more than 10 games (all pug) after the patch. I don't use ECM, and I've been perfectly capable of adapting.

ECM Commandos with ssrm are irritating. Two of them cut me to pieces.