165 replies to this topic

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Considering it can be 100% countered by an enemy ECM mech, yes it is completely balanced.

You didn't bring enough ECM to the fight, your problem.

This is the part where we realize who knows how to aim and those that just rely on missiles.

[Fornax]

The problem isn't weight or balance to the system, it's the implemented interpretation of what ECM should do. It shouldn't be a cloak all mechs option. Should also be a delay/cooldown to change back and forth (at least).

[Cerlin]

I personally think it works well. Most teams have it and it leads to interesting brawls. If a team wants to be lrm focuses they just get suppressive ECM on a pair of mechs. I have yet to use the counter ecm so im not sure how effective it is. I will try and check back.

[Scratx]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 04 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Considering it can be 100% countered by an enemy ECM mech, yes it is completely balanced.

You didn't bring enough ECM to the fight, your problem.

This is the part where we realize who knows how to aim and those that just rely on missiles.

Right. So I'll just grab 8 guys, all drop in D-DC Atlases, stack up on Streaks to eliminate any lights foolish enough to close in and ninja-walk into the enemy base.

Good luck ECM-disrupting that. You'll need... umm, 8 ECMs in counter mode.

Come on, be serious. Do you really want half the mechs in play to be one of many ECM variants? Right now, that's how things are headed. ECM needs to be useful without being unequivocably mandatory to carry. Or worse, boat.

It's too good at the moment. I saw it in play, it's an interesting change but not for the better as a whole at the moment.

[Zylo]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 04 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Considering it can be 100% countered by an enemy ECM mech, yes it is completely balanced.

You didn't bring enough ECM to the fight, your problem.

This is the part where we realize who knows how to aim and those that just rely on missiles.

Even if you bring fewer ECM mechs it's as simple as just using direct fire weapons on the ECM mechs to take them out first. It's more a case of which team can keep more ECM mechs alive during the fight as well as those pilots knowing how to use ECM correctly.

[Budor]

Didnt vote yet. LRMs might need spotters now but they are far from worthless. I played for 6 hours dropping with a friend. Due to low performance he can only LRM boat atm (10fps ftl):

- He used a D-DC with TAG/LL/and 3 x LRM15 + Artemis.
- I used a 3L with 2 x mlas, 2x ssrm, TAG, BAP & all modules besides the zoom.

I cannot think of any other combo in the game that would benefit a 2 man more. While i keep targets lit for him or drive away the occasional light he simply annihilates anything that might pose a threat to my raven maneuvering enemy territory. Its a win/win.


The other good things about ECM:

- sniper mechs can now be used without instantly getting anihilated by missiles the second you peak around a corner
- thermal view is even more important than before
- visual contact is more important than before, not just looking out for red doritos
- SRM comeback
- Cheesecat tears

Edited by Budor, 04 December 2012 - 07:00 PM.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Kylon Kostaja, on 04 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

ECMS? so LRM and Streaks can not be used anymore

Funny, I just had a guy on our team use a Streakapult to great effect, ripping ravens and commandos apart.
Oh wait, he had a friendly ECM unit keeping him unjammed though something call "Teamwork".

Quote

and pre-mades are rolling atlas all they way across the map without being observed to drop the hammer right on top of you.

If you aren't willing to visually scout things out, don't blame it on ECM. Thermal Vision is a great thing.

Quote

I would hardly say this is balanced. Takes most of the fun out of game play. I'm not one to cry about quitting during every change but this is just awful.

Sorry you can't adapt to this. You should try a game like Eve where ECM doesn't exist.

[Stradivarious]

Non LRM/Streak user here saying not balanced. Not seeing it really at all in standard or 4-man matches, or at least in limited usage, it seems fine there. In 8 mans it has turned it into whomever gets a single kill turtling up until the timer runs out, which in case you hadn't noticed since it wasn't in the patch notes, is no longer an automatic loss for everyone(at least in 8 mans, haven't seen the timer run out in a pug match yet).

I don't per se mind that being a tactic, but it makes it pretty damn boring. Might change once the new game mode comes out but we will see.

In the spirit of trying to add to the discussion, maybe reduce the effective range on it? On TT it was very limited, 3 hexes(90 meters) IIRC, and didn't block normal LRM fire, just artemis and streaks.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Nightcrept, on 04 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

From my observations it appears that ecm may have been balanced in a pre-made type testing environment but is not properly balanced for pug play.

Imagine that. A weapon was balanced for team play in a game designed around team play.

[M T]

- Jenner-D my favorite mech totally useless.

- Its all about Raven 3L, and other ECM mechs now.

- All matches are all about ECM, ECM this ECM that, totally ruined my experience.

- More QQn? It only weights 1.5 tonnes and can do all that ****, nobody has a counter except when you run ECM yourself.

Enough reason to vote, unbalanced.

[Zylo]

Marctraider, on 04 December 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

- Jenner-D my favorite mech totally useless.

- Its all about Raven 3L, and other ECM mechs now.

- All matches are all about ECM, ECM this ECM that, totally ruined my experience.

- More QQn? It only weights 1.5 tonnes and can do all that ****, nobody has a counter except when you run ECM yourself.

Enough reason to vote, unbalanced.

So I'm guessing you relied too much on streaks? The Jenner-D still has 4 energy hardpoints + jumpjets and can still move faster than the Raven 3L. The Jenner-D is still very dangerous when used by an experienced pilot.

Edited by Zylo, 04 December 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[Hotthedd]

I do not run an LRM boat or a Streak boat, but after a few matches I can honestly say ECM is WAY overpowered for its cost. In every match I have played since it has come out, the team with the most ECM-equipped mechs has won. Every Single Time.

[Mancu]

Well so far (136 votes) it looks like only 1/3 of the players consider ECM balanced in its current form.

[Dukov Nook]

Gailyn Strome, on 04 December 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Well they finally did it, they made light mechs the only mechs worth playing. Patch afer patch they completely shatter the idea of the gameplay in this game and each completely insane item they add or change to cater to the fairy fan boys makes the game worst. "It's a beta", I get that but PGI has shown no sign of learning from the countless other Team Vs Team based combat games, of which there are thousands.

I was suckered into believing in this game, even through the LRM Mistake, Streak Mistake, AC Spam Mistake and now this. There is little to no actual customization left in this game, think about it. Can you take an ECM? If yes, take ECM. Do you have 3 Ballistic Slots? If yes, spam AC/2 or AC/5. Otherwise spam low end lasers and streaks. Every single mech can be pidgeon holed into 3 basic setups, that is weak, really weak.

So, I am done with this game. I would sell my account but PGI would just ban it anyway. Enjoy the money to milked out of me PGI you won't be getting any more.

Also, love the "Hero" mechs. Or as players call them "AFK Bots".

To not think the introduction of ECM would be like this would be folly. TThe best way for them to figure out how to balance it is turn it on and adjust accordingly. In the mean time, team tactics will need to be adjusted. The counters do work. But it takes some coordination.

I see Premades probably having a more difficult time with ECM than pugs mostly because they will be using it more effectively.

[Hotthedd]

If Beagle could counter ECMs, it would be more balanced. Any mech could choose to equip BAP and sacrifice 1.5 tons of weapons/ammo/HS.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Marctraider, on 04 December 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

- Jenner-D my favorite mech totally useless.

If you think the Jenner is useless, then that just shows you never knew how to run it in the first place. THe Jenner is an excellent scout and light mech hunter. It's purpose will be to provide fast, tough eyes on the battlefield and to hunt down other light mechs (specifically EWar mechs) and to kill them.

Edited by Franklen Avignon, 04 December 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[Writhenn]

Hotthedd, on 04 December 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

If Beagle could counter ECMs, it would be more balanced. Any mech could choose to equip BAP and sacrifice 1.5 tons of weapons/ammo/HS.

ECM has always countered beagle. Always will.

[Hotthedd]

Writhen, on 04 December 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

ECM has always countered beagle. Always will.

Always will? Why is that? Canon? TT rules? Because ECM as it is now is neither canon nor TT rules based.

[Stormur Herra]

My KDR before this patch: .5. My KDR since this patch: 8.

Totally balanaced...

This is more disgusting than when they buffed streaks. (The Commando-2D was my most used mech before they fixed streaks, now it's just ridiculous.)

[Adrian Steel]

aspect, on 04 December 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

One ECM counters another ECM directly. How is it possible to not be balanced?

One nuclear warhead counters another nuclear warhead. Apparently this makes for plenty of fun gameplay...

aspect, on 04 December 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

I am SO happy that more complex strategies are starting to be required than "hide behind the building" or "camp tunnel exit".

I agree with this. However I don't agree with the methodology implemented to counter ECM. Having to bring more of the same leads to one flavor of meta game because it's self fulfilling. If it's an arms race for ECM, all the things that ECM counters (LRM, SSRM, etc). go to the wayside and are considered unimportant. If that's not bad balance, I don't know what is.

Edited by Adrian Steel, 04 December 2012 - 08:06 PM.