235 replies to this topic

[Mavairo]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 December 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

I've heard mixed answers from my team mates using TAG. Some said it worked others said it didn't. I was to busy running around shooting people with lasers to notice though.

Kind of where I was too last night. Lasers, SRMs and Ballistics are my staple diet.

[Felix]

Kaspirikay, on 05 December 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

the only counter to an ECM is another ECM.

Apparently spamming one type of something is known around here as 'tactics'

[ReD3y3]

ECM only really affects LRM/SSRM users.

Obviously we have alot of those

Obviously that is because the Netcode is lacking.

Let the netcode come back to where you hit things you aim at, and I think direct fire will be more reliable and ECM less of a factor.

[AvatarofWhat]

its not so much that ECM is unbalanced, but that tag sucks right now. They need to make tag better, possibly letting lock remain for a few seconds after you lose tag. Also beagle should help a little bit in countering ECM. Not fully counter it but offer some advantages...

[Elkarlo]

No ECM Affects Oversee Users too,
i got a stable 140ms ping,
but as soon as i am under Enemy ECM umbrella (Visible on the Low Signal Icon on the Minimap)
My seems to dance like Hell, my Weapons fire whenever they want but not when i expect them too..

So great invention... ECM shuts down Enemy Mechs as well.

[Grraarrgghh]

We have a lot of Aus and Euro goons and none of them were complaining about ECM last night.

Oh right, that's because they run in groups with a proper composition that compliments others and aren't terrible at the game.

[cmopatrick]

ECM is not OP. i dropped all pug last night and was on both sides of both stomps and even battles. but then again, most of you know what i think of ECM and where it belongs, so i will probably qualify as a fanboy in your minds and will just be ignored anyway. in fact, if it weren't that so many of you have problems with TAG, i wouldn't have posted in this thread (i have already commented on ECM elsewhere).

TAG works fine. i'm actually rather surprised that better pilots than myself would say otherwise... well, unless they are trying to use it to paint while 400m away running full speed on rough terrain at oblique angles to their targets. TAG is not great if you want to have a pristine mech when the match is over... but had anyone noticed the number of lrm boats that ran it long before this patch added ECM... remind me again why they wasted the weight... or was it that they had better/quicker/more accurate abilities to take on those coming to harass them?

TAG is best at the same range a NARC is, use it while dancing an opponent. i am actually surprised at the number of uber kb/m pilots who insist that they are more accurate with kb/m than a good analog stick driver and yet I (a lowly stick pilot who is condemned to and (rhymes with "ducks") at kb/m) am suddenly uber enough with TAG to be able to say they are out to lunch.

come on, people, biggest problem with TAG on most mechs is you let it wander and touch too many enemy mechs, you try to use it from long range while not in cover, you try to use it from beyond range, and you don't communicate that you have painted a target. and yes, i die often enough to watch others try to use it, trust me on this one. it is has no significant difference from streaks, just touch your target twice as much. and for goodness sake, don't just leave it on all the time... it's not a laser pointer for your other weapons.

Edited by cmopatrick, 05 December 2012 - 08:05 AM.

[Dukov Nook]

Mavairo, on 05 December 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

You must not play against Skilled teams that actually knew how to use those above 2 chassis then. I'm not referring to pugging. Pugging you could just take a team of commandos in, and probably still 8 and 0 people, fairly easily.

No, coming from a skilled team aspect, we have had much success using groups that never had to use 2 jenners and 2 streak cats to succeed. In fact, in many drops, we might have just 1 scout.

This is why I postulate your concept of needing 2 jenners and 2 streak cats is flat out wrong. BWC has a number of successful matches under it's belt with a simple 'Take what chassis you want, we'll adjust with tactics' track record.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Game has always been a slugfest.

The only time it wasn't was when everyone was focus firing people to dust in seconds with LRM's.

[wanderer]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 December 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

I've heard mixed answers from my team mates using TAG. Some said it worked others said it didn't. I was to busy running around shooting people with lasers to notice though.

<- TAG-using Atlas-RS.

TAG doesn't do jack inside an ECM bubble. TAGing a target outside ECM range will get rid of ECM on the target alone, but the moment you lose track with the beam, that's it. Loss of lock occurs and you'll have to re-lock (all the while keeping a perfect paint on the target). Good luck on keeping that Commando or Raven or Cicada constantly under a perfect TAG while it's zipping around in circles or at the usual high speeds.

Not to mention an ECM user smart enough to duck behind another target, even for a second removes the paint and forces you to re-establish lock. Again. Or one of your circling team-mates gets in the way. Or your aim gets jostled by a weapons hit. Anything, basically. And that assumes you're standing dead still, as moving generally means you're going to lose paint on anything but the slowest targets at least briefly- and boom, lock go bye-bye.

Will TAG negate ECM? Sure. Will it do it in any effective fashion on a mobile target? Not really.

[Zarcuthra]

wussie, on 04 December 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

I've played 3 matches since the patch, lost 2 of them, died in 2 of them. I've found they're really boring now. The 2 teams just sit around in defense waiting for someone to come within range of large lasers or gauss. So boring. I'm not happy with ECM in game.

Wait....ECM actually helps teams close on each other...it does not create a standoff...that is what LRMs do. You have it backwards.

[ReD3y3]

PLayed several games last night.

ECM made the strategy alot of fun.

Only thing I would suggest changing is making Tag hold lock longer....and even have it go through ECM bubble.

Tag would be a direct counter to ECM. But you ahve to be in 450 range (tags range) so it has its disadvantages as well.

ECM is fun

Please dont complain so much taht PGI nerfs it into the ground like they did UAC5/LRMs?

[Harrison Kelly]

I've only dropped in 8v8s since the patch, but I feel like sharing my thoughts on ECM.

If you'd told me a month ago that the devs were going to add a piece of equipment that almost completely nullifies two entire weapons (LRMs and Streaks) from organized play, I would've told you that not even PGI could be that short-sighted. I would've been wrong

Before the ECM patch, a sizeable amount of QQ about any kind of guided missile (LRM, Streak) was that it took absolutely no skill to run. Just achieve lock, click mouse, and watch the missiles insta-kill someone. No skill required at all. Now, while I agree that LRMs and SSRMs have a low skill floor, ECM doesn't even have a skill floor. It's in the skill basement. Simply equip this item and have your stealth bubble + anti-missile shield! Takes TONS OF SKILL! (Not)

Look, I get that ECM was designed to help counter missiles. It does that job too well by completely negating Streaks on anything but another ECM platform, but that was its intent and I can accept that. What I don't get is why it should also act like an AOE cloaking generator AND slow down target locks AND slow target info gathering. For 1.5 tons, it's ludicrously effective not only at countering missiles, but in giving a substantial advantage when it comes to information warfare.

My premade has instructed its members to remove their LRMs and Streaks from anything but another ECM Mech in 8v8 drops. They're wastes of tonnage against other premades. So far, I've yet to see a premade with fewer than 2 ECM Mechs and 3+ is more common.

The pathetic proposed TAG changes are not going to help. Why? Because it's really hard to hold TAG on a moving light/medium Mech with ECM no matter what you're in due to netcode.

PGI, you done goofed on ECM, and the forums told you that before it was launched and your band-aid fix was to save us from godmode Jenners instead of solving the real problem. Now you're going to try to band-aid in a placebo buff to TAG which will STILL make Streaks and LRMs dead weight in 8v8s. Congratulations. The magnitude of the stupidity of this implementation of ECM is akin to the release Artemis+uber flight path LRM fail, where entire classes of weapons are invalidated because of a poorly-thought out balance change.

I mean jeez, must be nice as a light pilot to be able to completely negate two out of the three weapons that are actually useful against them. Also nice to see that a piece of equipment has now become MANDATORY in 8v8s since the only counter to ECM is . . . another ECM! Great design. (Not!) Thanks for ECMwarrior Online.

Edited by Harrison Kelly, 05 December 2012 - 08:29 AM.

[Helbourne]

Wanderer makes great points in both of his posts in this thread. ECM / TAG / NARC / BAP, it all needs tweaking is some way. As it stands now if you go against 8 mechs all with ECM you need 8 mechs with ECM to counter all the other 8. That is just crazy in my book. ECM in counter mode should be able to counter more than one ECM. Bottom line more tweaking needs to be done.

Good post Harrison Kelly and Wanderer.

Edited by Helbourne, 05 December 2012 - 08:39 AM.

[Zarcuthra]

Again I'll say it.... I played 20+ matches of 8v8 last night... And our team ran lrms and streaks just fine....that WHILE countering the enemy ecm. It is doable. ECM does not make Lrms or streaks unusable.

[Joseph Mallan]

I would think it takes running a few ECMs in ECCM mode though. Am I right?

[Zarcuthra]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 December 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

I would think it takes running a few ECMs in ECCM mode though. Am I right?

Yes, it takes teamwork and coordination. If you are going to bring support weapons to a fight... You had better make sure you can rely on your teammates. We used ecm...we countered ecm...all depending on what was happening on the fly.

[Zarcuthra]

I think the reason people are having problems is because they do not have enough mechs that want to engage the enemy and maintain locks for the 1 to 2 lrm supporters they should have max on their team...if you are running more than 2 lrm mechs....you will not have enough people to brawl and maintain the locks or counter the enemy ecm. Also...if you are bringing a slow as molases atlas with too many lrms and no mobility...you deserve what you get when facing a team who will just close on it.

[GenDread]

Ok i think people are over reacting about the ECM thing lol. the REAL issue is simple the way it matches teams <in 8 man drops>. Right now if you go in with a balanced configuration of mech sizes, you will most likely get rolled by the other team running 4 Atlas D-DC's 2 Gauss cats and 2 Lights with ECM. What we need PAUL, is a way to match weight class's so teams that want to fight balanced matches can do just that. Sure you will have some teams waiting on matches because only some will want the 5 assaults, but i think we would find that most people want to run in mechs they like to run and not have to run something they hate just to be competitive!!! I say put the weight matching back in for 8 mans and see how it rolls for a week Let the beta testers Beta Test it you can revert it if it doesn't work out right .

Its not the ECM as much as the matchmaker dropping in pugs its not even close to being like it is in 8 mans lol

[Zarcuthra]

And before someone comments on my anti atlas lrm boating stance....notice I said too many lrms. An atlas can have lrms...it should not have mostly lrms. If you decide to do that... You reap what you sow. A slow 100 ton mech with little to no capability to defend itself below 180m is a deathtrap

Edited by Zarcuthra, 05 December 2012 - 08:58 AM.