114 replies to this topic

[Quazil]

Col Forbin, on 05 December 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Title says it all. ECM made LRMs much less viable....

LRM's are already *buff'd* up to 1.8 damage when they ought to only do 1.

[EnigmaNL]

LRM's are perfect now. They can be devastating if you don't use proper cover. They are support weapons now, like they are supposed to be.

ECM is fine as well. If the enemy is under the cover of ECM just switch to your other weapons. You do have other weapons right? Or possible send your own ECM 'mech to disrupt theirs.

[Revorn]

Use Tag to counter ECM, ROFL, good Joke.

[Cerlin]

I finally rolled my Founders Catapult today and took off a laser and added a tag and it worked swimmingly against an ECM team. Eventually 5 of them rushed me and I died but that is normal. I felt the balance has been maintained. Once they increase tag range I feel that LRM will be back to normal.

[Dimento Graven]

FallenFactol, on 05 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Not everyone has ECM, nor should they. This isn't an missile artillery simulator, its Mechwarrior. Try megamek and see how Battletech LRMs should work. You'll see that there a secondary weapon, not a primary. A team needs a lot more to win. I think the missiles are perfect the way they are now.

LRMs are a primary weapon. I'm sorry that Megamech makes you think they're "secondary", however, missles and all artillery are a FIRST STRIKE weapon.

God I hate it when the qq'ers try and pull that 'secondary' BS... People ignorant of war should probably stay away from any war simulation, or at least refrain from attempting to speak on it...

[Willie Sauerland]

Gulinborsti, on 05 December 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

The only thing that changed is that you can't launch LRMs on anybody and all the time and picking targets has become more important. And you might want to carry some backup weapon system in case the enemy spams ECM mechs.

Pray, since I must run a CPLT-A1 to elite anything else in the catapults, what backup weapons should I run? It has no energy or ballistic hardpoints... I guess I could dumb-fire SRMs, but given their spread (since Artemis is cancelled) I'm not going to do much in terms of damage even with proper leading. I'm interested in what your recommendation is.

Then again, I must be having the misfortune of running into PUGs/Teams running 3+ ECM units...

Edited by Willie Sauerland, 07 December 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[Willie Sauerland]

Quazil, on 06 December 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

LRM's are already *buff'd* up to 1.8 damage when they ought to only do 1.

*polite cough*

If you want to play the TT game - I'll play. LRMs are "buff'd" up to 1.8 damage because the armor you are carrying is buffed up to 2x what you should be carrying.

Further brilliant points you would like to make?

[Buckminster]

Willie Sauerland, on 07 December 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Pray, since I must run a CPLT-A1 to elite anything else in the catapults, what backup weapons should I run? It has no energy or ballistic hardpoints... I guess I could dumb-fire SRMs, but given their spread (since Artemis is cancelled) I'm not going to do much in terms of damage even with proper leading. I'm interested in what your recommendation is.

Then again, I must be having the misfortune of running into PUGs/Teams running 3+ ECM units...

I've been running 3 SSRMs and 3 SRM6s in my A1. It's still effective, even with ECM. And I'm a fairly dedicated pugger as well - I can't count on anti-ECM teamwork.

[Rumrunner2]

Problem is not LRM, problem is ECM. More power to LRM is wrong way, ECM needs a debuff or better a complete reworking.
The whole weaponbalance (and there was a long painfull way to get it) is gone since ECM. Very stupid.
Looks to me PGi is working by try and (t)error instead clear ideas and concepts.

[Gulinborsti]

Willie Sauerland, on 07 December 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Pray, since I must run a CPLT-A1 to elite anything else in the catapults, what backup weapons should I run? It has no energy or ballistic hardpoints... I guess I could dumb-fire SRMs, but given their spread (since Artemis is cancelled) I'm not going to do much in terms of damage even with proper leading. I'm interested in what your recommendation is.

Then again, I must be having the misfortune of running into PUGs/Teams running 3+ ECM units...

You don't have to run an A1, you can also go with C1, C4 and K2 to level your catapults to elite efficiency. At least this is what I did since I'd rather go in a K2 than a mech with all missile hard points, even before ECM was introduced.

[Kill3rAce]

Haha...I was ****** using Tag and having my teammates launch missiles for me. LRM's are working just fine. Hop on coms get some teammates and let the skies darken with missiles

[Joseph Mallan]

Buckminster, on 05 December 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Wait until the "ooh shiny ECM!" rush dies down before you call for any sort of rebalancing. Right now ECM is all over the place because people are trying it out, but that should peter out over the next couple weeks.

I agree. There is a glut of ECM cause it's the new shiny, and it will eventually balance out. But...

Col Forbin, on 05 December 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

I agree... but I will bet money that any 8-man group will have 2-3 ECM for the remaining lifetime of this game...

I can confirm that as a long time TT player I never had a company on the field that didn't have ECM somewhere. Scouts of course but also on my Missile Boats.

[Marcus Tanner]

Quazil, on 06 December 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

LRM's are already *buff'd* up to 1.8 damage when they ought to only do 1.

They also aught to cluster up on locations rather than spreading out over the whole target.

The removal of the "hole puncher / crit seeker" weapon dynamic requires reworking some weapons.

Willie Sauerland, on 07 December 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

If you want to play the TT game - I'll play. LRMs are "buff'd" up to 1.8 damage because the armor you are carrying is buffed up to 2x what you should be carrying.

Other weapons didn't get the damage buff, so in that regard LRMs have been buffed relative o other weapons in terms of pure damage output.

Joseph Mallan, on 08 December 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

I agree. There is a glut of ECM cause it's the new shiny, and it will eventually balance out.

Why is that? Sure, people will adapt.. by bringing their own ECM. I don't see why we could expect fewer ECM mechs on the field.

Joseph Mallan, on 08 December 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

I can confirm that as a long time TT player I never had a company on the field that didn't have ECM somewhere. Scouts of course but also on my Missile Boats.

If you use it all the time even without the stealth effects, where it has no effect on streaks or normal LRMs, wouldn't it be just fine the way it is in the tabletop without all this other nonsense?

[TigrisMorte]

Col Forbin, on 05 December 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

I think all I am simply trying to say... is that all previous balancing attempts were made to a game which did not include ECM. I think we can all agree on that. If you thought LRM balance was perfect pre-patch, there is no way that same balance exists. A re-balance now that ECM is in is probably required.



Hey, condescending guy. Did I ever say I wasn't using a spotter? Also, I run my own tag on my Awesome, thank you very much.

Also, NARC is completely nullified by ECM according to the patch notes. No one even ran it before ECM and now it sucks more.

Bingo!
I dearly love the, "everyone should have ECM/TAG makes ECM fine!" comments.
and
NARC was pointless before. Loading it now should disable your launch button.

[Silas]

Unnerf LRM's and put emc as what it did in tabletop. This game is missing a HUGE part of mechwarrior called the economy if you stick to cannon a lot of stuff was no longer able to be manufactured, an ECM pod was going to cost you a lot more than 400k and that's if you could find somebody that would be willing to sell you one. You then had to make strategic choices whether or not to field that and risk it being destroyed or captured. LRM boats aka close artillery support are valid. Map size is the counter to them not EMC you need a map bigger than a few sq k and without massive amounts of cover to duck behind. You need structures to take damage so they no longer provide cover. Put this all together an you no longer have an lrm boat s sitting on there base able to cover 2/3's of the map with fire support.

At then end of the day it's a question of is this going to be a pvp run in circles game or the nuanced game that the tabletop mechwarrior is.

[Zylo]

Col Forbin, on 05 December 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Title says it all. ECM made LRMs much less viable....

Actually, targets running ECM are some of the easiest LRM kills.

Just have a friend TAG them from outside 180m and kill them while they are out in an open area thinking ECM keeps them from being killed by missile fire.

[Dimento Graven]

Zylo, on 08 December 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Actually, targets running ECM are some of the easiest LRM kills.

Just have a friend TAG them from outside 180m and kill them while they are out in an open area thinking ECM keeps them from being killed by missile fire.

The correct statement is "Properly utilized ECM makes LRMs much less viable..."

Your example of easy ECM kills just shows that there are a lot of stupid players still in the game, and if you think that means there's no change needed... You should probably reconsider... I know quite a few commando, raven, cicada, and atlas pilots who could show you what 'properly utilized' ECM can do to your 'easy kill' rate...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 08 December 2012 - 02:02 PM.

[TigrisMorte]

Silas, on 08 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

U... is this going to be a pvp run in circles game or the nuanced game that the tabletop mechwarrior is.

It's a lame "pvp run in circles game". Mechbrawler Xtreme is a fully faceted run in circles first person brawler. Anything with range better than 180 gets a geometric "why did I mount this?". Just remember that hitting with more than a short range weapon means you are bad and shall be punished. It'll be fine.

[Valaska]

Gulinborsti, on 05 December 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

They still do the same damage as before the ECM release and I think almost everybody agreed that they are fairly balanced.

The only thing that changed is that you can't launch LRMs on anybody and all the time and picking targets has become more important. And you might want to carry some backup weapon system in case the enemy spams ECM mechs.

But once you find targets without ECM - there is always an opportunity - LRMs are still fine and dangerous support weapon.

Mate, I have no seen a single LRM in 2 days. I'm not kidding, not a single ******** LRM, thats how useless they are now lol.

[Gulinborsti]

Valaska, on 08 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Mate, I have no seen a single LRM in 2 days. I'm not kidding, not a single ******** LRM, thats how useless they are now lol.

This seems also to be a matter of personal perception and/or pure coincidence.

I played 5 PUG games in my C4 recently, 4 wins and 1/2/1/2/0 kills in this games.
Some games are actually still decided by massive and coordinated LRM usage ...