84 replies to this topic

[Wired]

Playing a LRM support mech in the Age of ECM™ is Brutal. I've gotten a few good matches but a lot of the time I end up with failed missile barrages. Possibly attaching a tag might help when the enemy is in my grill.

Edited by Wired, 05 December 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[Camulos]

Azrael1911, on 05 December 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Exactly, I just don't understand why people are going "A1 is unusable, boohoo" when it's still extremely deadly with SRMs.

A1 is now unusable to about 80% of the people who were using it before with no skill required EZ Mode streak weaponry. They get no pity from me. Learn to lead your targets and aim!!

I will say that I think TAG should be immune to ECM though (you cant jam a line of sight laser). It will allow for more teamwork and actual skill being able to overcome the ECM.

[wanderer]

River Walker, on 05 December 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

Noe is having one that kill off fare game play for 2 weeks.
The only ones Crying about this is the Steak Boater that cant go out and blind then kill what ever it come across.
ECM has put a stop to it at last.

To the point where ECM prevents the Streak from firing at all.

Which is utterly wrong. It should simply shift to firing like standard SRMs, just like TT. Anyone here think a 'Mech firing 6 standard SRM 2's is broken? No? That's what a Streak Cat under ECM should behave like, not a neutered 'Mech that can't fire a single shot while it's getting chewed to death by a Commando.

I was happy to see Streaks lose their aimbot powers under ECM. I was surprised that MWO then not only countered the Streak autoaim, they rendered the Streak utterly useless while jammed. The first was good and worth ECM right there. The second was overkill.

[River Walker]

Camulos, on 05 December 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

A1 is now unusable to about 80% of the people who were using it before with no skill required EZ Mode streak weaponry. They get no pity from me. Learn to lead your targets and aim!!

I will say that I think TAG should be immune to ECM though (you cant jam a line of sight laser). It will allow for more teamwork and actual skill being able to overcome the ECM.

I agree 100% and I must say you are right to say you are doing your self no fav by sitting in the Back with LRM whiting for the Target HUD to pop up, in this game you ether lean to shot or you learn to Die I am a Pro at both.

[Purlana]

We need a system that makes me immune to lasers. Lasers are easy mode compared to using AC/20s

QQ laser boats. QQ

Edited by Purlana, 05 December 2012 - 06:13 PM.

[River Walker]

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

To the point where ECM prevents the Streak from firing at all.

Which is utterly wrong. It should simply shift to firing like standard SRMs, just like TT. Anyone here think a 'Mech firing 6 standard SRM 2's is broken? No? That's what a Streak Cat under ECM should behave like, not a neutered 'Mech that can't fire a single shot while it's getting chewed to death by a Commando.

I was happy to see Streaks lose their aimbot powers under ECM. I was surprised that MWO then not only countered the Streak autoaim, they rendered the Streak utterly useless while jammed. The first was good and worth ECM right there. The second was overkill.

So you have no prob with blinding a user with 2SSRM so he cant shot back but you have a prob with ECM stoping you from doing so. tell me dos the ECM Blind you shack you up then Kill you like a 2SSRM boat.
Can you not shot back with AC or a PPC or some other weapon under the ECM

Purlana, on 05 December 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

We need a system that makes me immune to lasers. Lasers are easy mode compared to using AC/20s

QQ laser boats. QQ

Laser boats don't Blind you or stop you from shoting back like a 2SSRM boat dos

[Wired]

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

To the point where ECM prevents the Streak from firing at all.

Which is utterly wrong. It should simply shift to firing like standard SRMs, just like TT. Anyone here think a 'Mech firing 6 standard SRM 2's is broken? No? That's what a Streak Cat under ECM should behave like, not a neutered 'Mech that can't fire a single shot while it's getting chewed to death by a Commando.

I was happy to see Streaks lose their aimbot powers under ECM. I was surprised that MWO then not only countered the Streak autoaim, they rendered the Streak utterly useless while jammed. The first was good and worth ECM right there. The second was overkill.

This is actually a pretty fair assessment. I always thought it was strange you couldn't dumbfire streaks.

[wanderer]

River Walker, on 05 December 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

So you have no prob with blinding a user with 2SSRM so he cant shot back but you have a prob with ECM stoping you from doing so. tell me dos the ECM Blind you shack you up then Kill you like a 2SSRM boat.
Can you not shot back with AC or a PPC or some other weapon under the ECM

I don't even WAT on this one.

ECM should stop Streak auto-aim. That's good, it's well within the range of how ECM works in Battletech.

Streak racks fire "dumb" when jammed, just like a standard SRM does in TT. In MWO, they don't.

I'm all for Streaks losing their magic auto-aim chain-o-death ability with ECM active. I'm not OK with Streaks not being allowed to fire the old-fashioned way when jammed- that is, aiming their missiles like any other SRM launcher.

The first is fair, the second utterly disables a weapon system that it shouldn't.

[Quazil]

As a streak-boat ***** I welcome the ECM changes.

[Nightcrept]

River Walker, on 05 December 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

Noe is having one that kill off fare game play for 2 weeks.
The only ones Crying about this is the Steak Boater that cant go out and blind then kill what ever it come across.
ECM has put a stop to it at last.

I wish people would stop spewing this nonsense. Any player who plays the game and cares about making it as balanced as possible and not just about themselves is saying ecm is op. Most of use complaining use brawlers.

[wanderer]

Wired, on 05 December 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

This is actually a pretty fair assessment. I always thought it was strange you couldn't dumbfire streaks.

Not only is it strange, it's completely counter to how Streaks canonically work when their lock-on system is disabled. At that point, a Streak is merely an SRM-2 that costs a lot more per shot to fire. In MWO, 1.5 tons of ECM render at least 1.5 tons of weapon useless junk, and since most have 2 or more launchers....well, it's usually chopping much more firepower out of the circuit.

[Camulos]

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

To the point where ECM prevents the Streak from firing at all.

Which is utterly wrong. It should simply shift to firing like standard SRMs, just like TT. Anyone here think a 'Mech firing 6 standard SRM 2's is broken? No? That's what a Streak Cat under ECM should behave like, not a neutered 'Mech that can't fire a single shot while it's getting chewed to death by a Commando.

I was happy to see Streaks lose their aimbot powers under ECM. I was surprised that MWO then not only countered the Streak autoaim, they rendered the Streak utterly useless while jammed. The first was good and worth ECM right there. The second was overkill.

Here is a tip.....knowing that ECM will be out there STOP MAKING ALL STREAK LOADOUTS!!!! Vary your loadouts, mix it up between Streak SRMs and normal SRMs.....

Streak SRM2s were originally designed in this game for ultra fast scout mechs fight other ultra fast scout mechs that are hard to hit with conventional weaponry. It is slightly different from TT but it HAS to be different due to game mechanics.

Streaks were not initially implemented in this game to be boated by the dozen to wreck everything they come across.

[Nightcrept]

No one is saying that ssrms aren't op but the uber ecm is not how you should balance it.

[River Walker]

Wired, on 05 December 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

This is actually a pretty fair assessment. I always thought it was strange you couldn't dumbfire streaks.

That because thy are Fire and forget as in thy need a Target loaded in to the Missile to hit the target,the ECM prevents that from happening they for thy don't lunch.

[Quazil]

River Walker, on 05 December 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Laser boats don't Blind you or stop you from [shooting] back like a 2SSRM boat dos

AC/2's are about the same if not worse.
BTW the only thing stopping you from shooting back is you.
You can still pull the trigger. You still have the targeting reticule.
You may no longer be able to 'aim for the eyes Boo!' but you can aim, fire, & hit.

Lasers are under-powered in this game and this is fundamentally due to the broken way heat and heat-sink are implemented.
You are suppose to be able to fire 8 PPC blast in 30 seconds in an Awesome with 0 heat build-up with (IIRC) 28 HS.
The numbers crunched out for MWO say you need 30 HS to fire 1 PPC continuously - 90HS for 3 PPC!

[Obadiah333]

Camulos, on 05 December 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Here is a tip.....knowing that ECM will be out there STOP MAKING ALL STREAK LOADOUTS!!!! Vary your loadouts, mix it up between Streak SRMs and normal SRMs.....

Streak SRM2s were originally designed in this game for ultra fast scout mechs fight other ultra fast scout mechs that are hard to hit with conventional weaponry. It is slightly different from TT but it HAS to be different due to game mechanics.

Streaks were not initially implemented in this game to be boated by the dozen to wreck everything they come across.

Gee, glad we don't have ultra fast lag shield scout mechs out there that are hard to hit or nothing,.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Azrael1911, on 05 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Having a mech that only has locking weapons that didn't require aiming was a privilege, not an entitlement.

Anyone crying about ECMs forget that every other weapon in the game (that require actual aiming) is completely unaffected, and all ECM does is remove missle-ezmode.

What you fail to realize is that LRMs were already bad. They were slow to lockon, slow to travel, and blocked by the terrain half the time because few people are stupid enough to just stand out in the field these days.(Although you can now with ECM since they can't lockon at all anymore) ECM is what made fighting LRMs "ezmode". "You no lockon anymore hahaha".

You made a thread attacking what was already a weak role and defending what is very OP. It's like a double failure.

[PropagandaWar]

Felix, on 05 December 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Just the brawltards patting themselves on the back




Never tried to coordinate LRM support with allies have ya?

Umm oooh look at me I did 1100 points of damage and didnt have to do much more than push fire guys shouldnt talk about back patting. Yeah sorry you LRM Streakers were good at that. I agree to a point about ECM's, and a balance will be found but you guys really didnt have to do much. Heres a suggehstion make lrms go to last know location fired. Not guided.

[wanderer]

River Walker, on 05 December 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

That because thy are Fire and forget as in thy need a Target loaded in to the Missile to hit the target,the ECM prevents that from happening they for thy don't lunch.

This is incorrect in-canon. Streak racks whose Streak system is jammed by ECM no longer lock-and-fire, they simply revert to firing like a heavier, less efficient version of a standard SRM launcher. See http://www.sarna.net...Angel_ECM_Suite

That Streak Cat becomes a 6x2 normal SRM lobber if ECM was doing it right.

Camulos, on 05 December 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Here is a tip.....knowing that ECM will be out there STOP MAKING ALL STREAK LOADOUTS!!!! Vary your loadouts, mix it up between Streak SRMs and normal SRMs.....

Streak SRM2s were originally designed in this game for ultra fast scout mechs fight other ultra fast scout mechs that are hard to hit with conventional weaponry. It is slightly different from TT but it HAS to be different due to game mechanics.

Streaks were not initially implemented in this game to be boated by the dozen to wreck everything they come across.

And it doesn't have to be. ECM should work to make Streak-boaters have a great deal of trouble- but it's not supposed to utterly render the weapon unable to fire. LRMs are barely better under MWO ECM, and those are canonically DESIGNED to function in spite of LRMs- ECM just prevents fancy upgrades from working, but it shouldn't be requiring keeping a TAG laser constantly on-target to use your missiles. Reduce the range to 630m, sure- ECM wrecks complex information-sharing so the info-sharing that extends it's range to 1000m is quite fairly right out. Eliminate speedy lock-on times from Artemis and such, absolutely. Utterly bork any tracking/clustering bonus from the same, for certain.

But leaving me unable to properly fire LRMs at a 'Mech 300m away is overkill for 1.5 tons of gear. Having Streak racks be unable to fire AT ALL is overkill, too. ECM should be detrimental to both systems, but it shouldn't leave them useless heaps of junk, especially considering all the other tricks it's good for in MWO.

[Quazil]

Nightcrept, on 05 December 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

No one is saying that ssrms aren't op but the uber ecm is not how you should balance it.

ECM is implemented per BT rules and can be countered numerous ways.
Streaks are now broken; they need a dumb-fire mode or could auto-revert to dumb-fire when ECM is detected.
Missiles have been over-nerf'd because ECM wasn't present when they were at full damage and hit-rates.
Lasers are also over-nerf'd due to the heat implementation.
Auto-cannons are also horribly screwed up due to nerf'd heat-sinks.
Guass is the only weapon that's implemented close to TT so it's twice as effective as anything else (once LRM missile spread and ECM are considered) - and that's only because of the 10 "free" HS you get from the engine are enough to sink 2 guass's even with the heat nerf.

Edited by Quazil, 05 December 2012 - 06:59 PM.