84 replies to this topic

[Mancu]

Azrael1911, on 05 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Having a mech that only has locking weapons that didn't require aiming was a privilege, not an entitlement.

Anyone crying about ECMs forget that every other weapon in the game (that require actual aiming) is completely unaffected, and all ECM does is remove missle-ezmode.

Your post is bad and you should feel bad.

ECM is easy mode and anyone who claims it isn't is lying.

[Mao of DC]

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

ECM doesn't prevent Streaks from firing, it turns them into expensive versions of conventional SRMs.

Um Streaks DO NOT fire without a lock. Im not a streak cat pilot but I do use them on my Jenner and I can say for a fact that without a lock-on my missles do not fire.

[Phatel]

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

I see. So the solution to LRMs/Streaks is to render them utterly useless with ECM in play, then.

No, they're not a bloody "privilege", any more than your AC/20 doing 20 damage is. Right now, ECM actually does worse things that how it works in TT. ECM negates all the fancy bonuses to LRMs, it doesn't render them impossible to fire normally by reducing targeting ranges to 200m or less. ECM doesn't prevent Streaks from firing, it turns them into expensive versions of conventional SRMs.

In MWO, it prevents missile lock entirely, rendering Streaks unable to fire in ANY form and leaving LRMs as dumb-fired missiles an Atlas can outrun- worse than MRM's will be.

WTF on THAT.

learn to tag, stay with ecm so they can counter and I dunno, maybe kill stuff with something other than missles. SRM work fine, Tag counters ECM. Sorry you gotta l2p brah but this day has already been to long coming.

Camulos, on 05 December 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

I will say that I think TAG should be immune to ECM though (you cant jam a line of sight laser). It will allow for more teamwork and actual skill being able to overcome the ECM.

Tag is immune as long as they stay outside the 180m range of it.

[Mancu]

What's funny is that the ECM balance poll is up to nearly 400 votes and it still only shows that 1/3 of the players think ECM is balanced. I guess the other 2/3 voting must all be streakcat drivers...

[Phatel]

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

To the point where ECM prevents the Streak from firing at all.

Which is utterly wrong. It should simply shift to firing like standard SRMs, just like TT. Anyone here think a 'Mech firing 6 standard SRM 2's is broken? No? That's what a Streak Cat under ECM should behave like, not a neutered 'Mech that can't fire a single shot while it's getting chewed to death by a Commando.

I was happy to see Streaks lose their aimbot powers under ECM. I was surprised that MWO then not only countered the Streak autoaim, they rendered the Streak utterly useless while jammed. The first was good and worth ECM right there. The second was overkill.

Are you seriously looking for pity because you abused the streak cat? It was terrible that it existed in the first place. Skilless weapons that require nothing more to kill a player than holding down the left mouse and running in a circle will not be missed. Hell you didn't even have to aim at the target or look at it or maintain the lock. You were not skilled, you were abusing a broken weapon that has been fixed. Please go demonstrate your awesome with something else.

Nightcrept, on 05 December 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

No one is saying that ssrms aren't op but the uber ecm is not how you should balance it.

ECM isn't uber. I'm lost on how it makes you unable to shoot or avoid damage or use tactics. it's also not lacking in any drop, perhaps jam theirs?

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

Nightcrept, on 05 December 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Your lack of understanding of proper balancing is staggering.



It's just as hilarious how delusional brawlers are.

It's hard to hit a jenner with anything. Even harder with a lrm and to beat it all most of the lrm boaters you refer to have to fight off the jenners as well so they can generally aim too. Gasp imagine that.

heh, except it's clear how poor your performance is WITH LRMs if you're even bothering to fire them at a jenner unless you KNOW they are going to hit (i.e. he's within the range I'm talking about where even lock weapons require skill) in which case, you're firing within the range that DOES require skill...

My point is, firing an LRM from a distance requires no skill on the part of the LRMer past knowing the obstacles in place and the speed capabilities of the targeted mech class. Once you know the maps like the back of your hand, you can effectively make EVERY LRM count if you have a good spotter. Which is the skill of the spotter, NOT the LRMer (this generally being where the delusion lies)

If you are using your LRMs the proper way, you aren't someone I'm even talking to, perhaps I shouldn't have said "LRMers" like everyone that uses them is this way, I love the weapon system, I don't care if you want to boat them or not, I don't even mean boaters, I simply mean people that think that LRMs should be the end all be all of the battlefield, from the BACK of the battlefield. This is not the case, they should be a good source of damage with good information, which now they can be, especially if you and your spotter spec into them.

And, I'll say it again because its probably true because in the couple hours I've played since the patch, I haven't been hit by a single one(which isn't to say a lot as I am generally good at avoiding them, but they seem to have almost vanished.) Their damage likely needs a bump now that their countermeasures are in place, but many of us have stated this is the problem with the way PGI keeps releasing things.

It isn't wise to release a powerful weapon system long before a countermeasure that can nullify it if used properly, it makes people get used the first definition of the weapon, then when it changes everyone is angry because it is now a specific niche not an all purpose weapon. Just imagine if the ER PPC hadn't existed but the regular was exactly the same in damage and range but had the PPCs weight and heat. They then release the ER PPC, and fixed the values to what they are now respectively... people would be up in ARMS at the nerf of the PPC and this isn't even perfect comparison because then both options would still be available.

Edited by Ehrithane, 05 December 2012 - 07:31 PM.

[Phatel]

Carnifax, on 05 December 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Ok my Cat founders mech is now crippled even with art 4 and beagle i cant get a lock at all. ECM should limit lock range or effect number of missile hits not completely disable entire weapons ability to work. Art 4 and beagle should at the very least allow locks to still occur otherwise their abilities have been rendered useless along with streaks and lrms by one item.

I am all for ECM changing lock ranges, missile hits, and lock on speeds but complete disabling is significantly OP,

You have more weapon slots than missles and you are still capable of putting on SRM and doing serious damage to targets at short range if you find targeting to be that bad.

[River Walker]

Nightcrept, on 05 December 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Your lack of understanding of proper balancing is staggering.

So stopping you from spamming a user to death with 2SSRM by using ECM is in some way of me having a lack of game play balance.
No sorry I don't think so my friend.

[Phatel]

Bluten, on 05 December 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

What you fail to realize is that LRMs were already bad. They were slow to lockon, slow to travel, and blocked by the terrain half the time because few people are stupid enough to just stand out in the field these days.

So why did so many players boat them and why are they now upset that they are not working? MG are crap I don't see anything with a ballistic spot running around with machine guns and the forums lit up with complaints about how they suck and why....LRM spam has been constant and I am glad it's gone, it's nice to actually have tactics that don't involve attempting to play dodge 100 missles in the air. If you were a skilled pilot you would just find a new build and play, not seeing the problem other than they took the crutches away from skill less builds and people need to learn to walk

[Mancu]

Phatel, on 05 December 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

it's nice to actually have tactics that don't involve attempting to play dodge 100 missles in the air. If you were a skilled pilot you would just find a new build and play, not seeing the problem other than they took the crutches away from skill less builds and people need to learn to walk

You are joking right? The new mad skillz taktiks consist of ninja base rushes and death ball blob assaults 90% of the time.

[Obadiah333]

80Bit, on 05 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I really don't understand how people can claim dumb-fire weapons take "skill" to fire and lock on weapons take "no skill" to fire. If your definition of skill is "the ability to point your crosshairs at an enemy" then streak weapons meet that definition as well. Except you have to keep hold the crosshairs on their for several seconds before you can fire.

Lock one weapons took skill to fire, and now take even more skill to fire. Yes they home, but that does not mean you don't have to think about how to use them. From where, on what target, how many vollys, is the flight path clear, will the lock break before the missles get there, how to you keep yourself from getting destroyed by lights.

With ECM it makes it even harder.

Saying lock on weapons are noob no skill weapons just shows a lack of understanding regarding the dynamics of this game.


Edit: Oh an the only lock on weapons I have used for months are SSRMs on my Commando. Because I PUG and LRMS are team weapons that take (even more now) team work to use right.

80Bit, on 05 December 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Care to actually respond to the content of my post? I know that's something forums don't see much of, but you wouldn't want to utterly destroy your credibility would you?.

Sure, since you asked.

streak vs srm 2 boating.

Streak - take 3 seconds to get a lock on a light. Turn away, fire, hit & kill. Jump Jet, fire, hit & kill. Jump jet, turn away, fire, hit & kill. Spin around, target glance him and keep your lock, fire again (if he's still alive) and move on.

srm - line up your shot as the mech runs by, leading him for net code, leading him for lag shield, fire and hope that you hit. dance around while he shoots you in the back and you blow up.

So, no difference in skill required there. The fact that you even posted what you did in seriousness is mind boggling and I think my original post summed it up pretty well. If this response doesn't satisfy you, I don't know what more to say. Either good job for troll baiting me into responding again, or wow! Yep, just wow!

[River Walker]

Mancu, on 05 December 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

You are joking right? The new mad skillz taktiks consist of ninja base rushes and death ball blob assaults 90% of the time.

Ahh not trying to Troll you friend but what is a death ball blob assaults ??

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

To the point where ECM prevents the Streak from firing at all.

Which is utterly wrong. It should simply shift to firing like standard SRMs, just like TT. Anyone here think a 'Mech firing 6 standard SRM 2's is broken? No? That's what a Streak Cat under ECM should behave like, not a neutered 'Mech that can't fire a single shot while it's getting chewed to death by a Commando.

I was happy to see Streaks lose their aimbot powers under ECM. I was surprised that MWO then not only countered the Streak autoaim, they rendered the Streak utterly useless while jammed. The first was good and worth ECM right there. The second was overkill.

yeah... if only there was some weapon you could mount ON a streak cats MISSILE hardpoints that would ACT like the SRM 2 all the time.......
Something that could fire without a lock....
Something Short Range........
SOME Missile you could mount unaffected completely by ECM........


hmmmm that IS a tough one there.................. still can't think of anything?



It's ok. I'll wait...


**edited to make the sarcasm as clear as possible** <-This is just in case.

Edited by Ehrithane, 05 December 2012 - 07:47 PM.

[Mancu]

River Walker, on 05 December 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

Ahh not trying to Troll you friend but what is a death ball blob assaults ??

One or two ECM builds (often D-DCs) followed by the whole team all clumped up.

When both sided have ECM they are usually hidden until right on top of each other. Then the whole thing explodes into massed laser/ac fire. Its fun a few times but I've seen it way too many times now.

[Marj]

ECM has done nothing to fix streaks. The team with more ECM can use streaks just like before while the team with less ECM gets owned. This is not balanced. This is more broken than before.

Also, aiming does not equal skill. It is virtually impossible to hit a light with a high ping. No-one can't compensate for lag and bad netcode at the same time because the distance you need to lead the target keeps changing and there's no way to know what that distance is. Sure, if they run into a wall they can be hit, but even if they circle at a constant speed you can't do consistent damage to them.

Finally, brawler rushing does not equal skill. Brawler rushing is easy mode, that's why there are so many now. If you were good you'd make LRM's work despite the ECM handicap instead of just taking easy mode brawlers.

[Obadiah333]

They need an "almost like this" button. Or a "mostly like this" button. The black and white like or not to like is killing me.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Mancu, on 05 December 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

What's funny is that the ECM balance poll is up to nearly 400 votes and it still only shows that 1/3 of the players think ECM is balanced. I guess the other 2/3 voting must all be streakcat drivers...

You don't have to be a Streak A1 or LRM stacker to know that this thing is extremely stupidly OP and the single worst thing Piranha has done with this game.

[Wispsy]

Anyone using an lrmboat without their own tag is clearly doing it wrong anyway (A1 excluded obv). With a tag you will outdamage any directfire weapons and not be subject to them dodging in a stand up fight (oh yes, even at the very highest levels of play people can turn at the right time and take a shot to the arm instead of ct, wasting all your damage). Literally in a 1v1 no cover fight the lrms should win every time outside of a headshot on pure dps due to accuracy granted by tag. Now you have yet another reason to want to equip tag, and they are even buffing the range....I bet most "dedicated really pro lrmers" still complain they need buffing to work :/
Of course if they are using teamwork you could also use teamwork and get somebody to close in with the ecm mech covering their whole team and counter/spot him for you....
ECM only makes missiles useless if you are useless at using them and completely unsupported, l2p issue

[Skyfaller]

Azrael1911, on 05 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Having a mech that only has locking weapons that didn't require aiming was a privilege, not an entitlement.

Anyone crying about ECMs forget that every other weapon in the game (that require actual aiming) is completely unaffected, and all ECM does is remove missle-ezmode.

I used to run a brutal LRM catA1 (never did streaks). It brought out much tears from people like you.

Now, I run a 6xSRM6 CatA1. I literally 1-shot most mechs. Aiming? Its MUCH easier than keeping an LRM lock while moving and keeping my situational awareness so that the lock/LOS is kept until missiles hit.

Now, I just point and click and POW things just explode from sheer awesomeness.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Wispsy, on 05 December 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Anyone using an lrmboat without their own tag is clearly doing it wrong anyway (A1 excluded obv). With a tag you will outdamage any directfire weapons and not be subject to them dodging in a stand up fight (oh yes, even at the very highest levels of play people can turn at the right time and take a shot to the arm instead of ct, wasting all your damage). Literally in a 1v1 no cover fight the lrms should win every time outside of a headshot on pure dps due to accuracy granted by tag. Now you have yet another reason to want to equip tag, and they are even buffing the range....I bet most "dedicated really pro lrmers" still complain they need buffing to work :/
Of course if they are using teamwork you could also use teamwork and get somebody to close in with the ecm mech covering their whole team and counter/spot him for you....
ECM only makes missiles useless if you are useless at using them and completely unsupported, l2p issue

You are so wrong in so many ways, L2P indeed. Btw, Tag=450 range. LRMs are suppose to function a lot further away than that. If I have to be 200-450 meters to use LRMs... I may as well "not" use LRMs. If you were discussing BAP and it put us up to 500 or 600... maybe you'd have a point? But that isn't it at all... Tag is suppose to be used by someone else for the LRM boat, not by the LRM boat himself just to be able to fire the missiles in the first place.