3036 replies to this topic

[Codejack]

Vassago Rain, on 02 January 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Yes, and AC5s have a minimum range.

Your point?

AC5s aren't breaking the game.

[zmeul]

I agree about the ECM, it's out of place
I own 3 Atlas builds, based on the same idea (medium range) and with the D-DC I can clearly see the advantage of the ECM in the field

ECM should not work the way it does, it can disrupt and cover at the same time without any disadvantages
disrupt and cover should be in separated operating ECM modes

[AlexWildeagle]

Conn Man, on 02 January 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

Nerf LRM indirect fire. Right now it is too powerful. It is like we are getting C3 for free, and we shouldn't. Then make ECM work like it should. It is supposed to jam Artemis, Narc, C3, and BAP. It is not supposed to provide lock immunity, or cloak a team from radar.

Actually the problem is bigger then that. ECM does more compared to TT because missiles do more then TT.

Way back when combat was going to fast and people were dieing in the first like 30 seconds of drop. So, they doubled the armor value, dropped direct fire damage and pretty much left missiles alone. In one patch missiles went from support of front line brawlers to the most powerful weapon in the game. I've seen a phract with 432/434 armor die in less then 30 seconds from a solid stream of missile fire. And after decades of BT that was a really big surprise. ECM as it is now was designed to try and balance that out.
But the fact is it's easy to get around ECM especially in PUG matches and thus missiles still tend to rule battlefields, just not as much as before.

[Codejack]

AlexWildeagle, on 02 January 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Actually the problem is bigger then that. ECM does more compared to TT because missiles do more then TT.

Way back when combat was going to fast and people were dieing in the first like 30 seconds of drop. So, they doubled the armor value, dropped direct fire damage and pretty much left missiles alone. In one patch missiles went from support of front line brawlers to the most powerful weapon in the game. I've seen a phract with 432/434 armor die in less then 30 seconds from a solid stream of missile fire. And after decades of BT that was a really big surprise. ECM as it is now was designed to try and balance that out.
But the fact is it's easy to get around ECM especially in PUG matches and thus missiles still tend to rule battlefields, just not as much as before.

Except that they didn't mean for ECM to affect LRMs as much as streaks; why else did they buff TAG, but only for LRMs?

No, ECM was meant to take streaks out of the game. The fact that it didn't work would be funny, if the whole idea weren't tragic.

Edited by Codejack, 02 January 2013 - 07:19 AM.

[Apoc1138]

Oberst Teufel, on 02 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

I'm really worried that the new skill-based MM will make things only worse for players who play the inferior (light) mechs. As I've understood, you're now guaranteed to have an enemy with roughly equal skill stat-wise. Well that doesn't help much...

how will it make things worse? if an item is OP then the people using it will be getting higher scores and therefore not being matched against those "inferior" mech choosing players

[FrDrake]

I've played alot of LRM boat, ECM is annoying yes but bring your own TAG and it's not OP.

As some others have rightly pointed out it's the netcode/hitboxes that makes the Raven-3L broken, not the ECM. I am not scared of ECM on a DDC as a LRM boat, TAG him and toast him. Commando doens't have enough armor and laser strafing quickly downs them too. The Raven is nigh impossible to kill and the Cicada a close second but the Cicada doesn't have the ssrms so friendly lights stand a chance against an enemy cicada.

Once netcode/hitboxes are fixed and the 3L is hittable, it'll be a death trap again and not the super uber mech.

[Codejack]

FrDrake, on 02 January 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Once netcode/hitboxes are fixed and the 3L is hittable, it'll be a death trap again and not the super uber mech.

Please examine PGI's history and then explain to me why I should expect the netcode problem to be "fixed" in any remotely sensible way.

[MaddMaxx]

Codejack, on 02 January 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

Please examine PGI's history and then explain to me why I should expect the netcode problem to be "fixed" in any remotely sensible way.

If you would "do" what you ask others to "do", then the answer, and or the explanation you seek, would quickly become self evident.

[Chromoid]

Blue Shadow, on 30 December 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

Best and simplest solution I think would to have one ECM on counter mode counter ALL enemy ECMs this way it's no longer about the team with the most ECMs. A single Raven 3L could counter there enemy's 2 ECM mechs giving his fire support buddies a chance to fire LRMs. Adds team tactics that can be relied on but will not give LRM boats free rain.

Crimson Snow, on 30 December 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

What are you guys talking about. ECM is fine, and I think the only thing they need to fix is if an ecm is set to counter thats it, in that area all the ecms are countered. The way it is now its a ecm stackathon...If one ecm on counter counters all in the area then it nerfs ecm and gits rid of trying to stack more than the other team. Other than that, I think ECM is fine. If you are trying to cry about LRM and streakcat not being as effective lol, well GOOD.

idle crow, on 30 December 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

A lot of changes could be made to fix the current ecm problem.

-tag lasers work for ssrm2,
-having ecm not stack creating an ecm arms race,
-reducing the ecm bubble,
-have ecm only count for the mech its on
-fix the net code
-return of knock down

Mainly its the net code more then anything else. But all the other changes could be put in place until they actually fix the net code.

These are the only sensible posts I've seen on this thread thus far. The ECM isn't broken, it just needs to stop stacking. If one ECM can counter all the others within it's own range, then suddenly when everyone gets within 200 or less meters of each other, POOF; no more ECM bubble. It keeps the LRM boats honest, while allowing the SSRMs some room to play and cutting down on the sheer number of D-DCs, Ravens, and Cicadas on the field.

Also, fix netocde. If PGI does just that, you're going to see a WORLD of improvement over the entire game, the most important of which will be no more lagshielding for light mechs. As a Jenner and Raven pilot, I know that will cause a huge shift in gameplay.

[FrDrake]

Codejack, on 02 January 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

Please examine PGI's history and then explain to me why I should expect the netcode problem to be "fixed" in any remotely sensible way.

Note I didn't say soon. No idea when they will be done with it, it just annoys me when people misdiagnose the problem.

The issue of the ECM doing so much for the its tonnage is also a separate issue, which I agree it seems to do a bit much, but I don't consider that gamebreaking like the too survivable RVN-3L is.

*Edit I'm willing to bet you that almost everyone knows what variant of Raven has the ECM, while way less know which Cicada has it.

Edited by FrDrake, 02 January 2013 - 07:44 AM.

[Percival Hasek]

AlexWildeagle, on 02 January 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

I've seen a phract with 432/434 armor die in less then 30 seconds from a solid stream of missile fire.

Not that "I once saw' examples mean anything, because you cant be sure what other weaposn did hit, or didnt hit..but any 'Mech ou in the open for 30 seconds under fire from multiple sources with good aim is likely to die. 432 armor doesn't matter. Look at the head, center torso (or side torso for XL)--that is your lifespan on the battlefield. Those areas, exposed, will not hold up to 30 seconds of fire from multiple attackers, nor should they.

[Codejack]

MaddMaxx, on 02 January 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

If you would "do" what you ask others to "do", then the answer, and or the explanation you seek, would quickly become self evident.

OK, given the history of armor, heat, Artemis, ECM, and TAG, I expect PGI to fix the netcode problem by having the matchmaking system make sure that both teams have the same number of people with low/medium/high ping. I can hear it now, "Yep, that'll fix it. What's for lunch?"

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

I bet we'll also see ECM added to MM. Can't be bothered enough to try to balance it, so just make games have a 1:1 ratio on it. *wipes hands* Done. *goes back to working on next hero variant*

Edited by Bluten, 02 January 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[Apoc1138]

Bluten, on 02 January 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

I bet we'll also see ECM added to MM. Can't be bothered enough to try to balance it, so just make games have a 1:1 ratio on it. *wipes hands* Done. *goes back to working on next hero variant*

they won't need to - if ECM is as OP as you lot make out, then all the OP players using OP ECM will have much higher ELO scores than those without ECM and so all the OP ECM players will be off playing with themselves (pun intended)

[Ngamok]

WolvesX, on 28 December 2012 - 04:44 AM, said:

I was a big fan of ECM in the beginning as many of my clan mates where.

- Brings more strategy into the game.
- More tactic options.
- Balances stuff out.
- etc....

BUT

Fact is, I got an ECM Commando (for PUG trololol) now, an ECM Raven (for anything), an ECM Atlas (for anything).

These mech are simply the best in my whole hangar now. I got 4 Awesomes, 3 Hunchbacks (sold one), 1 Dragon, 1 Centurion (Sold 2), 1 Atlas (Sold 2), 1 Raven (Sold 2)... and I feel that I'm somekind of trolling / insulting my own intelligence if I play an other mech but the Raven3L or the AtlasDDC, because they are just so redic. OP.

YES

OP!

ECM is more then a hard counter to LRMs and Steaks. The lack of a fast way to communicate with randoms means, you can't ******** tell them where the enemy is and what he is planning to do.


Lagshield makes it even worse, especially with the 3L, my masterd 3L runs 143 KPH and I got a ping of 190.

You CAN'T hit me. You just can't!

As long as I don't do piloting errors, you just can't hit me.

TAG can't counter ECM. ECM is the counter to ECM. ECM does narrow your choise of viable mechs.

You know, in the days before ECM I considered myself a MEDIUM pilot. The first Master I got was with Hunchback, the sec with Cent, but since ECM is so OP, its not hard to play other mech... its just not making ANY sence.


Nerf it.


Remove it.


Cut ECM out of the game.

/ECM rant

ECM is only OP for PuGs. For 8 vs. 8 it brings strategy because you have to counter it and use TAG for any LRMs your team has. And trust me, it's easy to kill Ravens and Commandos even with their netlag with heavier mechs, especially since I am trying to fill the Master boxes of 2 of my Catapults. Dual AC/20s to the legs, see ya. Then it's Hunchbacks. I am sure other pilots that can lead can hit them as well.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Apoc1138, on 02 January 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

they won't need to - if ECM is as OP as you lot make out, then all the OP players using OP ECM will have much higher ELO scores than those without ECM and so all the OP ECM players will be off playing with themselves (pun intended)

ELO won't fix the problem at all. You will see ECMs in gutter ELO just as much as higher ELO. In the end they will either have to balance the device vs the others in the game(Lol at them doing that at this point), or add ECM ratios to matchmaking.(Much more likely to occur)

[Apoc1138]

Bluten, on 02 January 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

ELO won't fix the problem at all. You will see ECMs in gutter ELO just as much as higher ELO. In the end they will either have to balance the device vs the others in the game(Lol at them doing that at this point), or add ECM ratios to matchmaking.(Much more likely to occur)

What? you are not making any sense... if ECM is OP then people using it will always win and their ELO score will go up

[PropagandaWar]

I have one complaint about ecm if you tag you should be able to lock and Identify it outside 180 meters where the hard jam is. I bring in my cent with streaks to handle lights with a lbx and lazser for backup. 180-200meter lock is kinda bs if you have a tag on them it sould be 180-270 or whatever the max is. If tagging is OP then force the tag to stay on mech or lock is lost imediatly. If this OPs the the streaks well make them have to re-lock after every shot (and make them pepper entire mech not just torso what ever happened to that btw?). I still like ecm once in a while I take my CIcada out and I dont see it every single gem En-Masse and when I do my mechs generally have a backup weapon. Posters right about when dealing with pugs you say alpha and its in the ecm blanket half your team even with LOS may not know you your talking about adn typing plue/prple atlas is long.

[shintakie]

Apoc1138, on 02 January 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

What? you are not making any sense... if ECM is OP then people using it will always win and their ELO score will go up

You seem to forget that 1 side always has to lose though.

[Apoc1138]

shintakie, on 02 January 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

You seem to forget that 1 side always has to lose though.

I'm not forgetting that at all... if Bluten is correct and ECM is OP, then l33t ECM users will float to the top, normal ECM users will be in the middles (along with other normal players who can cope with ECM) and players who refuse to try to counter ECM and "always lose" to ECM will get trodden down to the bottom and never / rarely see ECM at all

PropagandaWar, on 02 January 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

I have one complaint about ecm if you tag you should be able to lock and Identify it outside 180 meters where the hard jam is. I bring in my cent with streaks to handle lights with a lbx and lazser for backup. 180-200meter lock is kinda bs if you have a tag on them it sould be 180-270 or whatever the max is. If tagging is OP then force the tag to stay on mech or lock is lost imediatly. If this OPs the the streaks well make them have to re-lock after every shot (and make them pepper entire mech not just torso what ever happened to that btw?). I still like ecm once in a while I take my CIcada out and I dont see it every single gem En-Masse and when I do my mechs generally have a backup weapon. Posters right about when dealing with pugs you say alpha and its in the ecm blanket half your team even with LOS may not know you your talking about adn typing plue/prple atlas is long.

TAG does exactly what you seem to be asking - a tagged ECM'd mech can be tagged and locked up to 750m