3036 replies to this topic

[Butane9000]

ECM could use a minor nerf but it's not as bad as you're saying. The only people adversely effected are LRM boats and SSRM boats. And usually only by the Light or Medium ECM mechs. A lot of people don't realize outside of the ECM range 2 of the mechs are fairly weak (the Commando and Ciada variants) then Raven is okay being a light and the Atlas D-DC remains a threat equal to an Atlas.

Quite crying, get out of the 180m range and kick some butt!

[Joseph Mallan]

OK. When am I going to get these dam memos on when the game has been ruined? I've been playing v ECMs, Raven Murders, LRM boats, SRM boats, GaussCats, AC20Cats, and not once did anyone let me know they ruined the game. I just kept playing and kept right on having fun when My game was supposed to be ruined! Will someone give me the memo so next time I know not to give a F*ck about whiner opinion ahead of time!!!!

[Vassago Rain]

Apoc1138, on 02 January 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

I'm not forgetting that at all... if Bluten is correct and ECM is OP, then l33t ECM users will float to the top, normal ECM users will be in the middles (along with other normal players who can cope with ECM) and players who refuse to try to counter ECM and "always lose" to ECM will get trodden down to the bottom and never / rarely see ECM at all



TAG does exactly what you seem to be asking - a tagged ECM'd mech can be tagged and locked up to 750m

They don't like these answers, so they'll pretend you didn't say it in the first place.

[Apoc1138]

Bluten, on 02 January 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

It makes perfect sense to me. Maybe you're just not very smart? Just because it's OP doesn't mean you'll always win with it, and only 1 team will win. Your logic dictates that the user will always win, even if 2 opposing both players have it.(It's opposing for 2 opposing players to both win) OP fyi doesn't mean 100% win rate(No idea what gave you that idea), especially when enemies have one too. Also, there will always be newer users slotting it or people dropping back down after they stop using it... or users that do use it and just didn't go up because they're either really bad or have the worst of luck. In the end, it'll be at all ELO ranges, not just the upper ranges, and this is totally irrelevant to the fact that it's OP. I've no idea why you think there is a relevance there or that it'll only be at upper ELO ranges. I guess you'll witness the reality when Phase 3 comes; the reality being that it'll still be OP and be at all ranges.(Not one or the other)

I don't think ECM is overpowered, therefore I fully expect to see it at all levels

you are still not making any sense, you are saying that ECM is overpowered but people using ECM lose all the time... in which case who fudging cares if it's overpowered or not

quite often I see teams with 1-2 ECM vs. teams with 0 ECM... if ECM was overpowered then the team with 2 ECM would ALWAYS WIN... or ECM is not overpowered and the entire premise of your complaint is baseless

Edited by Apoc1138, 03 January 2013 - 06:19 AM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

It is possible to have something OP AND lose with it. Just an fyi. If that still doesn't make any sense... I don't know what to tell you. Welcome to video gaming?

[IceGryphon]

I think ECM need a slight nerf. I can still hit ECM now and again.
But the Range to get a lock needs to be buffed up like about 10m~20m or so.
That or give BAP a buff to get better locks on ECM.

Otherwise you Eliminate LRMs & Nerf SSRM to almost unusable. About 1/3 of all weapons.

There are only 4 Mechs with ECM.
Unless other chassis can get ECM, or other ECM models come out.
ECM is going to be king, Esp with Lag Shields on light..

[IceGryphon]

Bluten, on 02 January 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

It is possible to have something OP AND lose with it. Just an fyi. If that still doesn't make any sense... I don't know what to tell you. Welcome to video gaming?

Well hell, one of the stalker models is suppose to have ECM.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Stalker
Now we only have Pesky Lights and 1 Assault Atlas that has it.
It is silly as not letting people add AMS in Closed Beta.
Also we will never have hard points on the legs? WHY?

[Codejack]

Apoc1138, on 02 January 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

What? you are not making any sense... if ECM is OP then people using it will always win and their ELO score will go up

No, bad players who use ECM will have their stats artificially inflated, and good players who don't use it will be underrated, making the situation even worse.

[Kilgore]

AlexWildeagle, on 28 December 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

WOW! Talk about crying wolf. ECM is fine, just cause it takes away your super easy mode doesn't make it OP.

You want OP, a few mechs sitting back 800 meters making heavy mechs disintegrate in less then 30 seconds.

Before they can do anything about ECM they will have to fix LRM boats and streakcats. Then they can work on making ECM more TT like.

I think he was actually saying that ECM mechs are easy mode. His favorite mechs, the Hunchback and Centurion, are neither LRM or SSRM boats.

Who's abusing SSRMs now? Commandos and Ravens with ECM.

[Skyfaller]

IceGryphon, on 02 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

I think ECM need a slight nerf. I can still hit ECM now and again.
But the Range to get a lock needs to be buffed up like about 10m~20m or so.
That or give BAP a buff to get better locks on ECM.

Otherwise you Eliminate LRMs & Nerf SSRM to almost unusable. About 1/3 of all weapons.

Agree. TAG needs to completely counter the no-lock when under ecm bubble effect, BAP needs to increase the range that you can lock on to outside the enemy ecm bubble to 500m.

Those two changes would sort of balance out ECM.

Ideally the devs should simply split ECM modes further. It is quite ******** to have one mode provide two massively overpowered abilities at one time.

Quote

ECM is going to be king, Esp with Lag Shields on light..

This is precisely the reason why ECM is destroying the game.

ECM exacerbates an already critical problem in gameplay balance: Light & medium mechs with lagshield running around enemy mechs preventing locks from missile weaponry. Just the fact that you literally cannot land a missile on anything running faster than 90kph and that the hit detection goes FUBAR at said speed *IS* the problem.

ECM atlases are not a problem. At all. The 90kph+ mechs with ECM are.

[Purlana]

ECM is broken, that's why I take ECM on my DDC.

The joy of ambushing someone while in an Atlas...

Edited by Purlana, 02 January 2013 - 01:23 PM.

[EXSODER]

Been going through this thread for a while now, and I thought I would mention to those who are calling for a change or asking the devs to do something.
They do know about this uproar involving ECM, and they've acknowledged that, and directly responded by saying they're not changing it. Quote from Inouye:

"...People are thinking we need to severely ‘nerf’ the ECM. This is not the case at all. There is already 1 counter-ECM item in the game (TAG), and likely there will be a couple more involving modules and weapon effects."
Link: http://www.pcgamer.c...t-mode-release/

While I do feel ECM is pretty frustrating (and also one reason, along with the new rewards system, that I took a bit of a break), I also know that it'll sort itself out eventually. I'll adapt, and most likely, they'll come out with a new module or equipment or give a boost to some other weapon. Right now, I play just the way I used to. I just find that the biggest problem is that most scouts don't know how to spot...and then there's ECM, eh, annoying - but I'm not going to let that end the game for me. I just might not be in my Catapult nearly as often - most of my kills in that, before you say it's a no-skill 'Mech, come from brawling close range with lasers when enemies rush us - and it's irritating because that's the 'Mech I'm comfortable with. So shoot me (just don't make it hurt too much, OK?). Why, then, would I drive it less often? Well, because if my LRMs are crippled by ECM more than half the time, I'll be pretty useless just running in EVERY time to laser brawl! That, and if I keep dying because of that, with the new rewards system, I'll make next to no cash and gain negligible XP.
The only real counter to ECM is having ECM, etc...
...or waiting for the ECM pilot to make a mistake. But this doesn't happen often.
If they don't do anything about this, well...
I'll still play, but let's face it: I would assume that in the opinion of the majority of 'experts', there aren't that many people playing who actually "play professionally" (or at least claim to, as I take no stance on any of that mess). The game couldn't run, then, if these experts were the only ones who played. Why would that be the case?
Because everyone would get fed up with complaining and quit playing, leaving only the dedicated "pros" or the ones who didn't care about stats.

Edited by EXSODER, 02 January 2013 - 01:44 PM.

[Codejack]

EXSODER, on 02 January 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

Been going through this thread for a while now, and I thought I would mention to those who are calling for a change or asking the devs to do something.
They do know about this uproar involving ECM, and they've acknowledged that, and directly responded by saying they're not changing it. Quote from Inouye:

"...People are thinking we need to severely ‘nerf’ the ECM. This is not the case at all. There is already 1 counter-ECM item in the game (TAG), and likely there will be a couple more involving modules and weapon effects."
Link: http://www.pcgamer.c...t-mode-release/

While I do feel ECM is pretty frustrating (and also one reason, along with the new rewards system, that I took a bit of a break), I also know that it'll sort itself out eventually. I'll adapt, and most likely, they'll come out with a new module or equipment or give a boost to some other weapon. Right now, I play just the way I used to. I just find that the biggest problem is that most scouts don't know how to spot...and then there's ECM, eh.
If they don't do anything, well...
Let's face it, there aren't that many people playing who actually "play professionally" (or at least claim to, as I take no stance on any of that mess). The game couldn't run if they were the only ones who played.
Food for thought...

That's why we're still talking about it. If they had come out and said, "We know, it's hosed, we're going to fix it," this thread wouldn't exist.

If they don't change it, about half the playerbase is going to leave, myself included; only the fact that so many other people are screaming about ECM is encouraging me to stay, at all.

Which brings us to your last point; how long will the game survive by catering only to one group of players?

[Grabes]

Correct codejack.

Only reason Istill inger onthe forums is the hope that they nerf it.

It's three systems in one, locks out two weapon systems, ton and half, is not resticted to any part of a body, and the best part, it's only true counter is another ecm.

It's been stated over and over, thats the defination of OP.

You can beat it with tatics, you can beat it without a exm on your team.

is it incredibly more diffcult? Hell yes.

When you drop, have no ecm on your team and see three or more on the other are you completly boned? Hell yes.

Tag may help with locks, does not help the 'i can't even target enemies directly infront of' syndrome.

I'am sorry, the component ruined the game experience for me.

[EXSODER]

Codejack, on 02 January 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

That's why we're still talking about it. If they had come out and said, "We know, it's hosed, we're going to fix it," this thread wouldn't exist.

If they don't change it, about half the playerbase is going to leave, myself included; only the fact that so many other people are screaming about ECM is encouraging me to stay, at all.

Which brings us to your last point; how long will the game survive by catering only to one group of players?

Actually, you described it much better than I did by what you said last.
If that were to happen, I'm not sure how long it would last, but honestly, I think most people would migrate over to other titles like HAWKEN (not comparing! Not comparing!) because it's the 'next best thing' in their eyes.
I'm thinking maybe they'll add new equipment or a module that will help, but then everyone would use that by default, and then everyone would run over to the other side of the boat, saying 'ECM isn't viable anymore!', then it would tip back to that side!
I just wish my Catapult was at least somewhat viable. I can still hold my own, but I have to consider the team and XP and cash flow. So for now, I have a lot of armor just sitting in the Mechlab...

[Sethalos]

ECM has absolutely ruined the game in its current incarnation.

The inability to locate, target, and hit enemy Mech's is ridiculously overpowered. To the point that if you enter a match and your team has no ECM you might as well just log out because you don't stand a chance.

I do think that ECM has a place, but it needs to be nerfed considerably, it shouldn't be the only reason that a team wins or loses and that's currently the state.

Reduce the aoe, reduce the ability to not target the mech but leave in the ability to not be able to missile lock on the targets.

There are probably other things that can be done to make it much fairer in the grand scheme of things but right now, it's way overpowered.

[Bigamo]

the funny thing is that this game never ever got released and its dieing already.

I said to myself at first that i would be game as soon as they nerf ECM. But i will not, and i regret deeply the time spent here in a game were the "designers" cant see a so obvious thing. i dont wait ANYTHING from PGI anymore, the are overspending in publicity (i am sick of 3 MWO banners in EVERY SITE that i visit) and they will broke. Time to time i came to this game to see if things improve and while they do it is on a ******** speed.

In game most people defend ECM now lol. But the huge amount of time were the game simply "failed to locate match" proves that its not cause people figured how to counter it, its just cause everyone else just left the room already.

I am going back to chivalry that while not a perfect game is very good in all senses and the devs actually have a clue about balance and make my own mech game soon enough

The last one to leave plz turn off the lights.

[Kaijin]

EXSODER, on 02 January 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

I think most people would migrate over to other titles like HAWKEN (not comparing! Not comparing!) because it's the 'next best thing' in their eyes.

I'm not interested in Hawken. I've seen the game-play videos. I've not downloaded it. I don't play FPSs. I am here because I am a Battletech/Mechwarrior fan. MWO was fun for me, if buggy before ECM. It is boring for me now, with ECM, as implemented.

[EXSODER]

Kaijin, on 02 January 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

I'm not interested in Hawken. I've seen the game-play videos. I've not downloaded it. I don't play FPSs. I am here because I am a Battletech/Mechwarrior fan. MWO was fun for me, if buggy before ECM. It is boring for me now, with ECM, as implemented.

I've played it, and I can say it just isn't good enough to pass itself off as a 'Mech game', as it feels like you're running around in a giant drinking glass shaped like humanoid combat armor. However, the reason I think some people will go there is because there isn't the frustration of things like ECM and having to think so deeply about builds, etc. (these are things I crave (except for the ECM), so HAWKEN just doesn't do it for me in that regard!)
I love the BT TT and MW, and I really don't want this thing to die before it even launches, but one thing I want to make clear with my post about them not fixing it is that I think this is a bad thing.
It's one thing to say, "Well, we have ECM," and not know yet about the player opinion regarding it, but it's another to say, "Well, we have ECM, and we know a great deal of people are unhappy with it, but we're not going to change it at all."
That's like telling us, in a roundabout way, "Calm down, kiddies, you definitely don't know what you're talking about."
Now many people may quote that and say, "Problem?" but I'll say that for every person comfortable with ECM, there are two others who aren't. Maybe one of the two sides is right, I don't know (I don't have a concrete opinion on ECM, but I'm aware that some of my 'Mechs are useless as money and XP makers right now).
But all I'm saying is that it's bad the developers acknowledged playerbase thoughts (on anything for that matter, not just ECM), and still said they're premeditatively going to ignore them. Maybe say something like, "We're aware that some people think we need to nerf ECM, but it probably needs a little more time before we jump to any conclusions."

[Kraven Kor]

Sethalos, on 02 January 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

ECM has absolutely ruined the game in its current incarnation.

No, it hasn't - I prefer the way games play out now, for the most part, but ECM being a "necessity" is a problem.

Quote

The inability to locate, target, and hit enemy Mech's is ridiculously overpowered. To the point that if you enter a match and your team has no ECM you might as well just log out because you don't stand a chance.

I do not have this problem (but I don't do LRM boats, and my Streak-using mechs all have ECM... so maybe it is just perspective? Not insulting, just saying.)

Quote

I do think that ECM has a place, but it needs to be nerfed considerably, it shouldn't be the only reason that a team wins or loses and that's currently the state.

Reduce the aoe, reduce the ability to not target the mech but leave in the ability to not be able to missile lock on the targets.

There are probably other things that can be done to make it much fairer in the grand scheme of things but right now, it's way overpowered.

This is about where I sit. I like the stealth bubble, I do, but think it needs to be toned down a bit, and there needs to be less "we have more ECM so we win" somehow. Something that makes 1 or 2 ECM mechs a necessity, but 3+ ECM mechs overkill, if that makes sense.

But, again, not everyone feels ECM has ruined anything and some of us even prefer the cat-and-mouse dynamic of finding the other team now.