3037 replies to this topic

[pseudocoder]

Prat, on 03 January 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

When you obsolete EVERY light except for 2 variants, you've got a problem on your hands.

Solution: Every mech should be able to equip ECM.

PANZERBUNNY, on 03 January 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

When someone DOES manage to get a TAG lock on ECM mechs, they merely have to lower themselves to everyone else's playing standards and actually take cover.

You just proved that TAG counters ECM.

Griffinhart, on 03 January 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

1. Match Maker should take ECM into account. There are too many matches I have seen where there are multiple ECM on one team, and zero on another.

2. If Tag doesn't counter ECM within 180M (I'm honestly not sure if it does or not), it should.

3. Narc should have a duration of at least 1 minute and (if it doesn't) counter ECM for that target. I don't think I have ever seen a Narc launcher in the wild because the duration of the beacons are so useless, especially given the weight of the weapon + ammo. This would make them usefull, and we will see more counters to ECM

1. ECM takes up space and weight on your mech, replacing potential for direct combat equipment. There is no need to weight it any more than that within a team. To a more general point, can't design the matchmaker to auto-compose PUG teams based on any type of loadout, because then there would be endless bitching about being locked into the same composition all the time, or "the ECM guy always sucks", or "Noobs are always filling the assault slots" etc etc.

2. TAG allows missile lock regardless of ECM and/or range to target. (Edit: I should clarify by this I mean as long as you're within TAG range of 750m and not inside ECM bubble yourself, at which point C3 is cut off. That's still most of the effective range of LRM's. SSRMs are admittedly more adversely affected and something should probably be fixed with them.)

3. NARC should definitely be longer duration (Edit: and work outside LoS), but it should NOT counter ECM IMO since that is in direct contradiction of TT rules.

Edited by pseudocoder, 22 February 2013 - 09:47 AM.

[DocBach]

pseudocoder, on 03 January 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

3. NARC should definitely be longer duration, but it should NOT counter ECM IMO since that is in direct contradiction of TT rules.

Narc needs to light up a target for indirect fire even if line of sight is lost, and ECM needs to protect against that.

[pseudocoder]

DocBach, on 03 January 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Narc needs to light up a target for indirect fire even if line of sight is lost, and ECM needs to protect against that.

Sure, that sounds good. Does NARC die if you lose LoS now? That doesn't sound right. You're not confusing with TAG are you?

[DocBach]

All narc does as implemented currently is make so missiles hit.

[Protoculture]

WolvesX, on 28 December 2012 - 04:44 AM, said:

I was a big fan of ECM in the beginning as many of my clan mates where.

- Brings more strategy into the game.
- More tactic options.
- Balances stuff out.
- etc....

BUT

Fact is, I got an ECM Commando (for PUG trololol) now, an ECM Raven (for anything), an ECM Atlas (for anything).

These mech are simply the best in my whole hangar now. I got 4 Awesomes, 3 Hunchbacks (sold one), 1 Dragon, 1 Centurion (Sold 2), 1 Atlas (Sold 2), 1 Raven (Sold 2)... and I feel that I'm somekind of trolling / insulting my own intelligence if I play an other mech but the Raven3L or the AtlasDDC, because they are just so redic. OP.

YES

OP!

ECM is more then a hard counter to LRMs and Steaks. The lack of a fast way to communicate with randoms means, you can't ******** tell them where the enemy is and what he is planning to do.


Lagshield makes it even worse, especially with the 3L, my masterd 3L runs 143 KPH and I got a ping of 190.

You CAN'T hit me. You just can't!

As long as I don't do piloting errors, you just can't hit me.

TAG can't counter ECM. ECM is the counter to ECM. ECM does narrow your choise of viable mechs.

You know, in the days before ECM I considered myself a MEDIUM pilot. The first Master I got was with Hunchback, the sec with Cent, but since ECM is so OP, its not hard to play other mech... its just not making ANY sence.


Nerf it.


Remove it.


Cut ECM out of the game.

/ECM rant

I just came back after several months hiatus. While some of the changes are good ECM is glaringly overpowered and the fact that you only have a few variants that can use it makes it 10x worse.

[Ukyo Sonoda]

The agruement here to keep ECM as is seems to be people not knowing how to mitigate LRM damage and SSRM launchers being 100% accurate and mostly hitting center torso. LRM damage is mitigated by proper use of terrain. You can go further using AMS systems. ECM also helped slightly because on TT it reduced the range a mech's sensors could target and lock onto a mech which would cause the LRM equipped mech to get closer to lock on. In previous MW games ECM caused the time period needed to lock onto a mech to increase as well.

The problem here is guardian ECM is overpowered. The reason being they combined 3 different systems from the TT into the guardian ECM they placed in this game. Some of those systems also being of TT tech levels that should not even exist in this current time line. Along with some beneficial side effects that none of the systems had on the TT. All placed into a single system that takes very little space.

The 100% accuracy near instantanious hitting SSRM 2 launchers are slightly broken. Granted their range is very short. Though I think recoding them to work as per TT rules of not firing thus not causing heat or using ammo unless you hit with them might be too much work at this point however increasing the recycle time on them could help in balancing them out a bit without the overboard ECM suite.

[Vapor Trail]

pseudocoder, on 03 January 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

2. TAG allows missile lock regardless of ECM and/or range to target.

3. NARC should definitely be longer duration, but it should NOT counter ECM IMO since that is in direct contradiction of TT rules.

You do realize exactly how much of a flip-flop this is, right?

[Omni Tek]

Ghogiel, on 28 December 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

L2P, get on TS3, get a second job, Devs got to eat too.

Devs aren't going to get to eat if they don't fix this game and new players aren't willing to stay/spend a dime.

[StalaggtIKE]

pseudocoder, on 03 January 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Solution: Every mech should be able to equip ECM.

If ECM stays the way it is, yes, every mech should be able to equip it.

[Martini Henrie]

Ukyo Sonoda, on 03 January 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Snip for thread length.

Well, your ECM theory is wrong out of the gates. I like it as it is, and I also have never had a problem with LRMs either. In fact ECM has made me slightly lazy so I do actually get hit by LRMs now. It isn't perfect, but it isn't as bad as some are making out. I would like the null zone deminished, but am not overly bothered.

I agree with your statement about streaks, they were rediculous. I like the way that the point and click weapons now require some thought, and finesse to use effectively. Puts them in the same place as exploding gauss rifles.

[Martini Henrie]

StalaggtIKE, on 03 January 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

If ECM stays the way it is, yes, every mech should be able to equip it.

No, there is no need for this. In a couple of mechs time we will have moved on from all this. All these Ravens running around means that I am thoroughly practiced at legging them with SRMs. Happy days.

[Codejack]

pseudocoder, on 03 January 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

2. TAG allows missile lock regardless of ECM and/or range to target.

?!

I really wish people who don't play the game would refrain from posting about it.

[Khobai]

Quote

LRM damage is mitigated by proper use of terrain.

Except that its not. Half the time the missiles clip right through the terrain and hit you anyway.

LRMs are still really unbalanced and need to be nerfed. ECM was a bad way to fix LRMs, because it just creates a dynamic where missiles are useless if the other team has ECM and missiles are overpowered if the other team doesnt have ECM.

1) nerf indirect fired lrms heavily, in tabletop indirect lrms were super inaccurate
2) decrease ECM's stealth range to 400m or 500m
3) change ECM so just turns streaks into normal srms
4) buff BAP so ecm doesnt just counter it outright.

What that does is fix LRMs so theyre no longer as brutal when fired indirectly. It also fixes ECM so its more of a soft counter to missiles rather than a super magic missile shield.

Edited by Khobai, 03 January 2013 - 01:47 PM.

[Codejack]

Khobai, on 03 January 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

Except that its not. Half the time the missiles clip right through the terrain and hit you anyway.

OK, that is a legitimate complaint, but should be fixed by making it not happen; don't nerf the whole weapon system because one aspect isn't working properly!

And that's where ECM comes in; it was supposed to address a bunch of problems, and not only did it fail, but it created new problems in the process.

Missiles should be balanced on their own, then ECM could have a serious but limited role helping scouts; it should make them harder to find, but once they are found, it shouldn't help much at all, other than countering BAP, Artemis, etc.

[StalaggtIKE]

Martini Henrie, on 03 January 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

No, there is no need for this. In a couple of mechs time we will have moved on from all this. All these Ravens running around means that I am thoroughly practiced at legging them with SRMs. Happy days.

Oh. As long as it caters to your play style, I'm fine.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 03 January 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[Just Another Poster]

Codejack, on 03 January 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

OK, that is a legitimate complaint, but should be fixed by making it not happen; don't nerf the whole weapon system because one aspect isn't working properly!

Actually they said that when this occurs, you don't take damage from it. It's a client side visual bug only; server doesn't register it as a hit unless it actually had pathing to you. So it's not really a "legitimate complaint" to nerf LRMs.

[shintakie]

Codejack, on 03 January 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

?!

I really wish people who don't play the game would refrain from posting about it.

Does someone not know that you can't actually light someone up with TAG inside the ECM bubble? Wait...wait. Yep. It totally looks like someone doesn't know TAG doesn't light up someone inside an ECM bubble. Not only that, but they tried to use their (wrong) logic to make someone else who was right look dumb. Its so cute.

Though I disagree with that posters idea that it should be at all ranges, a range limitation seems somewhat necessary, even if its only at max sensor range.

pseudocoder, on 03 January 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Sure, that sounds good. Does NARC die if you lose LoS now? That doesn't sound right. You're not confusing with TAG are you?

As far as I'm aware NARC has always (in MWO) required you to still keep LoS of the target even after you hit them with it. Its one of the (several) reasons why NARC is never ever used by anyone who knows better.

[HiplyRustic]

pseudocoder, on 03 January 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

NARC should definitely be longer duration, but it should NOT counter ECM IMO since that is in direct contradiction of TT rules.

Don't even think about mentioning contradictions to TT and support ECM in its current incarnation at the same time... hypocrite.

Edited by HiplyRustic, 03 January 2013 - 03:28 PM.

[Just Another Poster]

HiplyRustic, on 03 January 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Don't even think about mentioning contradictions to TT and support ECM in its current incarnation at the same time... hypocrite.

Be careful, they will eventually suspend you for hurting people's feelings.

[The Black Crusade]

I dont understand why ECM's block target-lock against ALL friendly mechs in the radius. Why wouldnt it just block the target-lock only against the mech that possesses it. Seems to me it would solve a lot problems.