3036 replies to this topic

[Super Mono]

jakucha, on 04 March 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

WoT gives you actual damage dealing boosts you can use potentially the entire match. Coolant module will give you a one time (or two times with CBill version) heat reduction that's really only useful for laser weapons.

This is just the tip of the iceberg dear.

[Thirdstar]

Tarman, on 04 March 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

I always wonder if it isn't IGP that wants MWO to be WoT instead of PGI.

AAAAA ACRONYM OVERLOAD

But I do wonder how much is devs and how much is devs' moneysuit bosses. Moneysuits are known for knowing jack-all about stuff their "holdings" are actually doing or trying to do.

That goes without saying though. What publisher wouldn't want MWO to be as successful as WoT?

What I meant was that certain features seemed to lifted straight from WoT, the mechbay system, the exact MC/Premie/Mechbay pricing, and the ill fated R&R.

And now the MC consumables.

[benth]

Thirdstar, on 04 March 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

That goes without saying though. What publisher wouldn't want MWO to be as successful as WoT?

What I meant was that certain features seemed to lifted straight from WoT, the mechbay system, the exact MC/Premie/Mechbay pricing, and the ill fated R&R.

And now the MC consumables.

Don't forget that CW will be an exact copy of WoT's.

[Noobzorz]

jakucha, on 04 March 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

WoT gives you actual damage dealing boosts you can use potentially the entire match. Coolant module will give you a one time (or two times with CBill version) heat reduction that's really only useful for laser weapons.

This is the wizardry of it. They get you saying "look, your real life money doesn't get you a huge advantage. Maybe just another alpha strike" as though it's no big deal that someone can spend real dollars to gain an advantage.

Then they say "look, your real life money doesn't secure you the win. Just 30% more armor."

And so on, and so on. Before you know it, you have gold ammo and full repairs on the fly.

We know how this works and where it goes. I cannot think of one single game that has started down this road (unacceptable to begin with) that hasn't gone all the way with it. You should have seen how WoT started out.

Edited by Noobzorz, 04 March 2013 - 09:15 PM.

[Thirdstar]

benth, on 04 March 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Don't forget that CW will be an exact copy of WoT's.

That's what I expect it to look like, yes.

[Tarman]

Thirdstar, on 04 March 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

That goes without saying though. What publisher wouldn't want MWO to be as successful as WoT?

What I meant was that certain features seemed to lifted straight from WoT, the mechbay system, the exact MC/Premie/Mechbay pricing, and the ill fated R&R.

And now the MC consumables.

That's what I mean too. Not so much the suits not knowing jack and just wishing for WoT-like success, but actively sending down marching orders like "Make this tank game more like that other tank game." "This is a robot game, sir." "Yeah, whatever, just do it."

[MacKoga]

Helmer, on 04 March 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Interesting that these two posts are so close to each other. Amazing how people are bashing Garth , and Paul, and yet there are other people who have alot more say than they do about the development of MWO.

This is what I was thinking. PGI has some great people who understand what will work well for the game and its community/customers. However, there are other forces and influences that sometimes direct things instead.

It is most economically optimal if those who get what the game and community need have more influence in its direction, including in business matters.


My interest is not in bashing anyone, but having us get to a future where the creators of this game are proud and happy, its financial backers/other powers involved are rich and happy, and we the community have a fantastic prouduct we enjoy playing and paying for, for years and years.

[ragingmunkyz]

Well my replies to other posts just get deleted or moved, so I guess I'll just throw some more fuel on this fire.

This is a terrible step in the wrong,direction, PGI. I really hope you listen to the community, and you remove what is clearly a P2W from a game that had so much going for it. I've quit several other games that went P2W with features just like this (I'm looking at you WoT), and the sad thing is, I was going to give you my money for the acceptable things, like cosmetics and mech bays. I was even considering giving you more money for MW tactics. Up until this point, I had been convinced the game would be worth a substantial investment. But if this is the plan you have in store for you products, then I suppose your games will just wind up as more in a long line of failures that squandered the potential for greatness.

I won't support P2W, and neither will countless others. If you're just in this to make some quick cash and get out, then keep heading down this road. If you want to make MUCH more money over time, and build a great, long-lasting community that will support this game and your future endeavours, then turn back now. I want to like this, I want to support it, I want this to be a great game. Don't let your community down.

[Adrian Steel]

Thirdstar, on 04 March 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

That goes without saying though. What publisher wouldn't want MWO to be as successful as WoT?

What I meant was that certain features seemed to lifted straight from WoT, the mechbay system, the exact MC/Premie/Mechbay pricing, and the ill fated R&R.

And now the MC consumables.

IGP is sitting in their ivory tower, making deals, thinking big and tossing urine buckets out, while the tower's foundation gets eaten by uric acid. Loving it.

[Thirdstar]

Tarman, on 04 March 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

That's what I mean too. Not so much the suits not knowing jack and just wishing for WoT-like success, but actively sending down marching orders like "Make this tank game more like that other tank game." "This is a robot game, sir." "Yeah, whatever, just do it."

I absolutely agree that Publishers have a large hand here, but I cannot in good faith simply shift ALL of the responsibility onto them. It's been been pointed out often the the Devs are passionate about the game, it then also falls on them to make sure the game doesn't fall into the P2W pit, publisher pressure or no.

[benth]

Tarman, on 04 March 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

That's what I mean too. Not so much the suits not knowing jack and just wishing for WoT-like success, but actively sending down marching orders like "Make this tank game more like that other tank game." "This is a robot game, sir." "Yeah, whatever, just do it."

While this may be part of it, far too many developers get off the hook by players displacing blame on nebulous publishers.

Yeah, EA got its hooks into Mass Effect. But the terrible writing in 3? All on the developers.

[jakucha]

Super Mono, on 04 March 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

This is just the tip of the iceberg dear.

Grant me your inside master source then. Unless you also mean artillery and airstrikes, which we have zero ideas of how they'll work.

[Tarman]

Thirdstar, on 04 March 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

I absolutely agree that Publishers have a large hand here, but I cannot in good faith simply shift ALL of the responsibility onto them. It's been been pointed out often the the Devs are passionate about the game, it then also falls on them to make sure the game doesn't fall into the P2W pit, publisher pressure or no.

And @ benth

Not giving the devs an easy out, but when your boss tells you how it is, your choice could sometimes be compliance or resume writing. OFC this is all supposition on our parts since we don't have an insider to feed us the real deal. Maybe they're all in the office sitting on a pile of printed out refund requests and laughing.

[benth]

jakucha, on 04 March 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Grant me your inside master source then. Unless you also mean artillery and airstrikes, which we have zero ideas of how they'll work.

Have you seen the industry lately?

You can buy crafting materials with real money in Dead Space 3.

[ragingmunkyz]

jakucha, on 04 March 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

WoT gives you actual damage dealing boosts you can use potentially the entire match. Coolant module will give you a one time (or two times with CBill version) heat reduction that's really only useful for laser weapons.

Do people really not know where this leads to by now. The list of games that start with something like this and end with a P2W nightmare is growing longer all the time. It always starts with "Hey its not so bad, just pay a little bit to be a tiny amount more effective" and winds up at "Pay us all your money for god mode or quit the game." Naive internet person is naive.

[Gandalfrockman]

jakucha, on 04 March 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Grant me your inside master source then. Unless you also mean artillery and airstrikes, which we have zero ideas of how they'll work.

Jakucha,
We are speaking from experience.
WoT started out as a wonderfully balanced game with no trace of P2W, and then gradually over time, got WORSE AND WORSE AND WORSE. Many other games have followed the exact same profile. This is how it always starts, some small but signifigant advantage, Blatant enough that its omission cannot be chalked up to simple oversight. It gets worse from there.

Its the thin end of the wedge. The fat end is covered in giant spikes and drenched in userbase corroding acid.

[Adrian Steel]

Thirdstar, on 04 March 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

It's funny because I've used WoT as an example to illustrate my points so very often that i've lost count. I also pointed out how much the Devs want MWO to BE WoT.

Everyone knows this. But I was honestly expecting them to learn from WoT about what to do and what not to do. There's a reason why I, and boatloads of others have tried it and uninstalled it.

[Noobzorz]

benth, on 04 March 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

While this may be part of it, far too many developers get off the hook by players displacing blame on nebulous publishers.

Yeah, EA got its hooks into Mass Effect. But the terrible writing in 3? All on the developers.

I'm willing to believe that was about resource constraints and scheduling. EA has a pretty driven track record of that. If you really want to rag one Bioware for something, consider Dragon Age 2. Not to mention that the microtransaction scheme in ME 3 was flawlessly implemented. I could pay $3 and get a whole shitload of cool stuff, or I could grind (well, play, really) for 3 hours to get the same. I spent some cash, I spent some time, and in the end I thought "This was worth both the time and money I spent on this [a lot of both] and I would do this again in their next similar offering."

As it was, Mass Effect 3 is proof of concept that complaining when you deserve better gets you better. I considered the redux ending to be an acceptable (if not incredible) and satisfying end to the series, and I was very happy with SPOILERS TO FOLLOW HERE ABOUT ME3 SO STOP READING RIGHT NOW YES THAT MEANS YOU my robo Shepard-reaper.

SPOILERS OVER

That's what I want. I want lots of cool content and the opportunity to spend reasonable amounts of money on cool stuff that does not give me a competitive advantage, or the option to grind for the same length of time. If hero mechs were closer to League of Legends heroes, I suspect PGI would make a lot more money on them, and if I could grind for one with 45 hours of play, I would be a lot less likely to say "*&%!@# you" when they finally release that hero mech that is obviously overpowered (of course they'll balance it eventually, but making a mistake like this is inevitable; it's just part of the industry).

Edited by Noobzorz, 04 March 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[Thirdstar]

ragingmunkyz, on 04 March 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Do people really not know where this leads to by now. The list of games that start with something like this and end with a P2W nightmare is growing longer all the time. It always starts with "Hey its not so bad, just pay a little bit to be a tiny amount more effective" and winds up at "Pay us all your money for god mode or quit the game." Naive internet person is naive.

Long time Star Trek Online player here. I could tell you exactly how the slippery slope works. Eventually the P2W is just a part of the entire system. Did I mention that PvP is very very dead in STO?

[AceTimberwolf]

Thirdstar, on 04 March 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

That's what I expect it to look like, yes.

What is it Like? I never played WOT