3036 replies to this topic

[DirePhoenix]

Thirdstar, on 04 March 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Long time Star Trek Online player here. I could tell you exactly how the slippery slope works. Eventually the P2W is just a part of the entire system. Did I mention that PvP is very very dead in STO?

As another long time STO player, I disagree that it is P2W, I can say that PvP was never really alive in STO either.

[stjobe]

MustrumRidcully, on 05 March 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

The Gauss Kitty needs something else instead. I suggest "Ammo Supply". Simply calls in a supply aircraft that reloads 15/20/35 % of your ammo.
And for the Brawlers, a "Repair Drone". Launches a small drone that restores 15/20/35 % of your armour!

Don't even joke about such things... You'll give someone ideas, and it'll show up in a patch down the road.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Skip along to 5:57 or so:



Or click: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/991408


.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 05 March 2013 - 02:28 AM.

[CrashieJ]

DirePhoenix, on 05 March 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

As another long time STO player, I disagree that it is P2W, I can say that PvP was never really alive in STO either.

God, I got tired of the grinding... and the lockboxes, and the "special chance" ships from said lockboxes
not that P2W as you think about it as TF2 did it.... but agreeing with the PVP though, as top tier weapons and skills basically rule the PVP and skill takes a backseat.

I think if Mechwarrior Online pulled a TF2 with Crates and Keys and some type of trading either between players or within Clans, there will be a bit of grumbling but at least it would be fair.

[Stuii OCAU]

BlackSquirrel, on 05 December 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

They already said never in a "ask the dev post" a few months back.

ha ha haaaaa ha ha haaaaaaa and it's MC P2W as well

[Tarman]

DirePhoenix, on 05 March 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

As another long time STO player, I disagree that it is P2W, I can say that PvP was never really alive in STO either.

I used to run with FleetOps. Our leader was highly dangerous and also very flush. I never once saw him get taken out by any combination of anything in PvP, even ganged up on by multiple targets, due to top-tier skill running top-tier kit. He'd give away his extra lockbox ships by the handful to members of the fleet. We were pimped out with fullset-purple and lockbox and store-tier stuff. People died. People one-shot died. People didn't even breach FO shielding on the ace captains, much less take them down.

We were pimped-out invincible murderers as a group; that's ultimately why I left. Boredom. Boredom and the realization that a large portion of my power and ability was from hanging with a flush crew and not any special effort on my part. I merely had access to much more powerful ships and kit than anyone not chipping in major cash or provided to by a wealthy patron.

[Melcyna]

ZnSeventeen, on 05 March 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

In any case, I am boycotting it until I am certain that it is not some form of P2W.

While i am still waiting on the fence to see where exactly this lies...

Don't you think that's odd???

i mean shouldn't the logical step be to boycott it AFTER you are certain it's a form of P2W, and not boycotting it BEFORE you are certain since that makes little sense.

[Mahws]

semalferuzA, on 05 March 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

It'd be nice if C-bill and MC were the same %/module slots but the MC one only had to be purchased once per mech.

Example: C-Bill 35% costs 500k C-bills per use. (Limit 1 per game)
MC 35% costs 300 MC per mech unlimited use. (Limit 1 per game)

However, I don't want coolant flush to be added period. I think it detracts from the game more than it adds. But if it has to be implemented it should at least be equal effectiveness.

Still Pay2Win in my books. That's a good three or four matches of non-premium wins. So they MC paying player gets to use it whenever he wants and the non-MC paying player has to grind out four or five matches for every one he gets to use it.

[Cebi]

Garth Erlam, on 06 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

It's actually because it invalidates heat as an issue in a team vs. team environment.

LOL?

I'm not saying this is a u-turn... but dude? Seriously?

Don't cave to the money men Garth. Stick to your principles.

[AceTimberwolf]

Garth Erlam, on 24 September 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Q: Have you guys considered adding Coolant Pods to increase heat dissipation of a mech's heatsinks when used? [vayne]
A: Yes, we considered and then dropped the idea. We found it more of a crutch and lead to more issues than it helped with. If you're in a long, multi-targetted single player game, it makes sense. In a player vs. player environment you get a MASSIVE increase in firepower for no cost, or it wouldn't be enough to make a difference (IE. the match would never last long enough for you running out of coolant to matter, because you've already killed two people. Or, it doesn't even last a single fight, then why even have it?) Does that make sense? [Garth]

Thanks for your interest, everyone! Hope you enjoyed the answers, and we'll be back here next week

Cheers,
The MechWarrior Online Team

Might as well add picture

And a Link
http://mwomercs.com/...evs-18-answers/

Brought to you by a chained up Zeus

Edited by AceTimberwolf, 05 March 2013 - 03:31 AM.

[DirePhoenix]

benth, on 04 March 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

Oh how unbridled rage can build a community.

Well, to be fair, there isn't a successful MMO that doesn't have forum posters full of rage. An MMO with a quiet forum is an MMO that no one cares about. There are many "passionate" fans of MWO obviously. And despite all the threats of leaving, I doubt many people actually will, because if people were actually serious about it, they wouldn't threaten or make a big show about it, they'd just leave.

I said before I am a long-time player of STO. When they announced F2P and the forums went all aflame, and then the lockboxes arrived and the forums went all aflame again, there were similar "threats"... most saying that they were going to leave for EvE or SWtOR... well, I think we've all seen what happened to SWtOR. And EvE, which has been around for almost 10 years now, has just announced that they've reached a quarter of the concurrent accounts that STO announced they had last month (when STO celebrated its 3rd year).

I also am a long time player of WoT. I think there's a lot of misdirected rage at that game. First, WoT is wildly successful. PGI would be lucky to have half the success of Wargaming.net. I have also never spent any cash on that game. Not for "Gold Ammo" (not necessary), not for premium tanks (also not necessary), not for camo/paintjobs (because their paymodel for camo is the same ludicrousness that MWO's initially was). I also find it interesting that while people complain about the gold ammo, I've never heard anyone in that game complain about repair/rearm costs or consumables.

And guess what? I have fun in WoT when I play it, even without all that "P2W". I don't take part WoT's Clan Wars (mainly b/c I don't belong to a WoT clan), and maybe that's why I see no need for that marginal, ultracompetitive edge. To me, WoT is a generic tank game though, it's good fun to run around and blast other tanks for a few minutes, but it's not the same as being immersed in a specific universe like BattleTech. I wonder if I was some huge war history buff if I would care enough about buying a specific model of tank, or only driving a certain faction's vehicles, or making sure I had a certain paintjob, but it's just internet tanks to me, I have my fun and log off, maybe come back in a couple weeks when I'm in the mood again.

And then I think back to MWO. B/c this is a franchise I do care about, I do want it to be "right" with what I know about the BattleTech universe. But truthfully, there's not a lot of us left (despite what the forums may lead one to believe, we're just more concentrated here). A lot of people in MWO probably only have vague memories of a computer game over a decade ago, when most of them were probably too young to care about the story behind it all. To them, this is generic "Internet Robots" just like like WoT is generic "Internet Tanks" to me. And they don't care that it's "right", they care if it's fun for them.

...which brings us back to the Coolant Flush. Because from what vague memories the younger generations have of MechWarrior, they remember that there was a "coolant flush" in it, so that must be what BattleTech is, and it's just not the same without that familiar "FWOOSH". They don't remember that it was the worst thing ever, an atrocity to whole point of having a heat system that you had to manage. But then, who is this game actually being made for? The declining hardcore passionate fans of the franchise like me? Or the vast masses of players unfamiliar with BattleTech?

Business-wise, it probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense to make much more than a nod to the original BattleTech, and instead pander to the new blood. If they lean too heavily on the universe, they risk alienating their larger audience. Interestingly enough, even with STO's still increasing numbers I still hear the occasional "I think I need to be some sort of ultra Trek nerd to get into STO", while the hardcore passionate fans are all over the forums screaming at the devs that it's still not Trek enough and demand some elaborate story arc featuring a throwaway character that made one appearance in the third season of ST:TNG. (and then even when that happens, yell at them for not getting it "right").

So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not really concerned about the rage that people are throwing all over the place. No, that doesn't mean I approve of the Coolant Flush (because I still think it's a bad idea), but I'm not worried about the game while there are internet people that are angry. Being angry is just one way to show you care (probably not the best way). If people didn't care about MWO, they wouldn't be angry. And regardless of what they do with Coolant Flush, as long as people are having emotional reactions about the game, this game will have an audience to play to.

Also I just realized it's 3:30AM and I'm probably not making any sense...

[AceTimberwolf]

I noticed I've been at this for more than 12 hours... Probably should go to bed and get ready for work

[TexAce]

I really really REALLY don't know how all the forums can go beserk over such a small little thing like the consumables.
It's ONE coolant for gods sake, it won't change at all how we play. Its a "oh ****" button you can use once.

Nobody said they aren't considering the opinions stated in the forums but come on, we have so many great additions this months and you b!tch over such a small thing totally neglecting all the nice things to come (and for me artillery and coolant flush are nothing bad at all).

This is the BEST mechwarrior game ever (for me at least) and you are only discouraging the devs with your constant and totally irrational QQing over something you didn't even have tried out yet.

Yes the devs said they won't do it, IN THE WAY IT WAS PROPOSED TO THEM.
Like most humans people think about their decisions and if it was a good one and REACT to it. As will the devs do.

If you really are leaving because of a damn coolant then please bye bye!

What if they make the tier 3 coolant require 2 slots? Would all of you suddenly be quiet?
This change would require 2 seconds of time for the coders and I'm sure the devs would do it if they see it as appropriate.

For me the introduction of new things by PGI goes like this:
They announce something -> forum QQs
They release it -> half the forum QQs
They alter it -> quarter forum QQs
They alter it even further -> a small neglectible percentage of the forum QQs

What this means for me is: THEY ARE LISTENING

So shut the ef up and relax already. You are worse than YouTube commenters.

Edited by TexAss, 05 March 2013 - 03:46 AM.

[Sol Fin]

TexAss, on 05 March 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

I really really REALLY don't know how all the forums can go beserk over such a small little think like the consumables.
It's ONE coolant, it won't change at all how we play. Its a "oh ****" button you can use once.

The thing is - it will change the playstyle of any mech greatly. Especially for high-damage high-heat setups like PPC snipers and SRM brawlers.

[Ilwrath]

TexAss, on 05 March 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

I really really REALLY don't know how all the forums can go beserk over such a small little think like the consumables.
It's ONE coolant, it won't change at all how we play. Its a "oh ****" button you can use once.

It is crap that the game don't need and its about crossing a barrier. This is just the first crap, much more will follow.
Its also about the devs doing what they said they would not do.

[TexAce]

Sol Fin, on 05 March 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

The thing is - it will change the playstyle of any mech greatly. Especially for high-damage high-heat setups like PPC snipers and SRM brawlers.

It's a one time consumable. I pilot PPC snipers as well as SRM brawlers (Awesome 8R) and I can assure you it won't change a thing for me, especially if the MC or C-bill cost is higher than 50kc-bill / 25MC I won't even consider buying it. I can alpha ONCE more with a coolant and thats it, for me this is a fraction of the time I play in a match and it will not change my scoreboard if not slightly. Besides everyone else will have it striped on if I do.

Giving everyone 3,5 seconds MAX more before they overheat is nothing in a real match.

Edited by TexAss, 05 March 2013 - 03:50 AM.

[Budor]

TexAss, on 05 March 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

It's a one time consumable. I pilot PPC snipers as well as SRM brawlers (Awesome 8R) and I can assure you it won't change a thing for me, especially if the MC or C-bill cost is higher than 50kc-bill / 25MC I won't even consider buying it. I can alpha ONCE more with a coolant and thats it, for me this is a fraction of the time I play in a match and it will not change my scoreboard if not slightly. Besides everyone else will have it striped on if I do.

Giving everyone 3,5 seconds MAX more before they overheat is nothing in a real match.

Its a kill or be killed consumable. Its usage directly transfers into more dmg depending on how much you can get out of it. Its great but we cannot discuss just how great it is because its not implemented yet.

The module slot advantage on the tier3 (mc) variant is clearly p2w. If you want the same you will cap slower and/or get info slower and/or hold targets for a shorter duration and/or will not be able to air strike or launch any drones etc.

Everytime you lose to someone not overheating in a tight situation, or outcapping you by a small margin or raining LRM on you without los or fkn anything module related you will not know if it wasnt related to an advantage he got by buying into MC consumables. Mdoules are endgame per dev definition and now you need to buy into it in a game that just offers PvP. WTF?!

This may be ok for a lot of people but it certainly isnt for most that try to outplay their opponents in this game. I do not want to have an option to be better just by shelling out money.

Bads and competitive players will be all over this instantly which will just strenghten the developers/publishers feel of "doing it right!" and thus opening up the way for even more stuff i dont even want to think of.

If this wasnt the only battletech/mechwarrior ip game worth mentioning i would have uninstalled already.

Edited by Budor, 05 March 2013 - 04:01 AM.

[Sol Fin]

TexAss, on 05 March 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

It's a one time consumable. I pilot PPC snipers as well as SRM brawlers (Awesome 8R) and I can assure you it won't change a thing for me, especially if the MC or C-bill cost is higher than 50kc-bill / 25MC I won't even consider buying it. I can alpha ONCE more with a coolant and thats it, for me this is a fraction of the time I play in a match and it will not change my scoreboard if not slightly.

One more alpha of a PPC stalker is all that is needed. You need to create an initial imbalance of force by a quick kill. Coolant flush gives you this ability. And now imagine 3 PPC snipers with that consumable. And what we have - even more broken balance of already questionable boating mechanic. That's why I'm totally against coolant flush, not only it's tier 3 MC-only variant.

Personally I came here from EVE, where abusing every possible bit of mechanic and min/maxing is a way of life. And what you quickly learn there - 5% of rate of fire or 3.5 more secs of additional firing is a big deal considering more or less equal skill.

Edited by Sol Fin, 05 March 2013 - 04:03 AM.

[DeeSaster]

TexAss, on 05 March 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

What if they make the tier 3 coolant require 2 slots? Would all of you suddenly be quiet?
This change would require 2 seconds of time for the coders and I'm sure the devs would do it if they see it as appropriate.

Exactly right. I would have no issues with that. Will they alter it? Maybe, uncertain so far since it has been hours of threadnaughting and noone of PGIs brass said a word.

Even if they changed it now, there would be a bit of a bitter taste, because PGI remind me of modern day politicians and their salami tactic. Go insanely overboard and slice small pieces of the package back. Little by little. Just about as much as absolutely needed.

Not kool. :/

[Budor]

TexAss, on 05 March 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

What if they make the tier 3 coolant require 2 slots? Would all of you suddenly be quiet?

What kind of a ******** change would that be? "Hey we take away 1 option (flush twice) but you can pay real money for it!?!"



The only way to keep it ingame and still make sense is to make it available for mc and cbills now creating interesting choices.

- "Do i want to pay more and keep a free module slot, is 2x less better than 1x full 35%...?"


If they really need to tread the p2w path than please make it cost a ton of cbills but do NOT add stuff that is only available through real money, esp. not small perks that can be used frequently.

- "You play a lot? Cool, you can buy it! You win a lot? Cool, youre good and thus can afford it."

- "You dont play a lot or suck? Cool, cause its a game just buy it with real money bro."

It does not have to be free but it needs to have the option to aquire it if you dedicate time to it. People that play a lot for free (i pay paid regularly) are good for the game, they are the population of this title that will not work without them.

Paul Inouye, on 04 March 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

Edited by Budor, 05 March 2013 - 04:49 AM.